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China Southern wannabes

Old 28th Nov 2015, 14:22
  #61 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: ME
Posts: 4
Hi Guys and Gals.

Looking for some help in regard to agencies.

I am 777 rated and considering the CSA deal (forgive my madness). I have been told that choosing an agent is important from the get go as you will likely be stuck with them for your full term with CSA. Is this normal in the contract world? (I have not had to deal with agencies before)

I have two long time friends in the CSA system now. They are relatively content with their respective agencies. They have both told me to stay away from a mob called Tasman Aviation (supposedly run by a low-life who offers everything under the sun to get pilots to sign, only to take it all back at first chance). That is the only real feedback I have been given. The bigger agencies all seem quite similar at first glance.

If anyone can point me in the right direction it would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Capt Tired is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2015, 02:40
  #62 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Global Nomad
Posts: 127
That's a fairly nasty accusation you've made in a public forum based on an opinion from two people without any substantive evidence.

I'm not sure I'd be that happy if any of my friends quoted me in the same manner.

There are benefits with Tasman, do I care to share them with you? Not particularly.

My sincerest advice is to stay where you are.
Global Nomad is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2015, 06:03
  #63 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: ME
Posts: 4
Seems I hit a nerve. I apologise if submitting a rumour on a rumour network offended.

My intent was simply to seek advice whilst sharing the only recommendation I have (to stay away from a particular agency). Tasman certainly never made my short-list when I heard what was going on there.

If anyone has any positive feedback on other agencies, it would be great to hear about it.
Capt Tired is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2015, 04:38
  #64 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Global Nomad
Posts: 127
If you took my advice, you wouldn't need an agency.

No nerves offended as far as I'm concerned, but posting a nasty rumour, when it's just 'nasty' and achieves nothing really isn't on. I mean, what sort of low life would do that?

Pot - Kettle - Black
Global Nomad is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2015, 12:18
  #65 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: ME
Posts: 4
In the past 24hrs I have heard from 2 more CSA guys. Both repeated the same issues with this particular agency. I will not go into the specifics as I wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings anymore than I already have, but, that makes 4 pilots in what I believe is a fairly small expat community at CSA. As such I certainly stand by my initial comment.

Should I decide not to take your advice, I will happily buy you a drink when I get there (one with lots of fruit and a nice pink umbrella on top) as I am not really that "nasty".

Signing off.
Capt Tired is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2015, 17:09
  #66 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Global Nomad
Posts: 127
So, it appears your agency choice will be based on repetitive rumours (probably the same bar session) from people that I suspect you really don't know that well and from what you've heard on this network? Excellent decision making module.

Throw this in the pot then, I've heard that a similar number would like to change to said agent but most of us are actually ambivalent about any of the agencies.

It also appears you've been misled into thinking that your choice of agent will be contract defining. It's not, although I agree it is probably difficult to change once in. If there were to be an 'ace' of an agency, wouldn't we all be signing up but we're not so that's the best evidence you'll ever get.

Once you've selected your agency (sounds posh doesn't it) and if you absolutely insist on your new adventure, then good luck with your sim and medical.

It'll be about two years before you get on line so I doubt I'll be around to take up your drink offer.
Global Nomad is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2015, 10:20
  #67 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: europe
Posts: 95
Capt Tired,

There are SO MANY agents involved in this contract that its hard to know who the 'best' is.
Most guys speak pretty highly of Longreach China and GABS. They seem to be very proactive in tackling the issues. My peers at least seem pretty unimpressed by the services(or lack of) from PARC and Rishworth. Seems that they work on the 'once your in and we have our money then we dont care about you anymore' philosophy.......

The guy who runs Tasman is a CSA pilot as im sure you are aware. Met him a couple of times in the office or the bar and seems like a nice enough chap. How his agency is run i couldnt comment as i dont actually know anybody who is signed up with him.

Hope that helps a little,
mach85 is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2015, 09:49
  #68 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: ME
Posts: 4
Thanks Mach for taking the time.

Thanks also to the many guys who pm'd with similar sentiments.

Much appreciated.
Capt Tired is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2015, 14:02
  #69 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 55
Posts: 257
CSA stuff

I would have to concur that the comments about Tasman are rather 'nasty'.

Frankly, if you are happy where you are then don't bother coming.

Why do I say that... because the harder it is to attract the necessary pilots to CSA ( or China generally) , the more they will increase the T's+C's for those of us here!

Yes, selfish - but the only difference between a pirate and a pilot is the eyepatch.

I am loving the job, easy work, generally lots of days off (for an RSO guy like me) Great coin.

Not without issues, but go visit the Middle East forum for the happy campers/habibis there....

Oops what am I doing... making it sound worth coming for a look! Egads!

Note to self... wind head in. (as I listen to 'March of the Volunteers' - google it for info)
woodja51 is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2015, 06:25
  #70 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: europe
Posts: 95

Seemingly the CAAC are taking care of that for us.
Lots of new questions in the ATPL exam apparently leading to a very low pass rate...........
mach85 is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2015, 13:54
  #71 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: A hemisphere
Posts: 184
The recent exam I did was very tricky. New questions I've never seen before, and others I just didn't understand even what the question was asking (Chinglish).

Not sure if its some seasonal change, if a new manager has changed lots of questions, or maybe someone up top wants to make it difficult to get foreign Captains to get hired. One thing is for sure, and that is it is a pain the the bum doing this exam.

I went in this exam with a fair degree of confidence after boning up on all the previous questions. I was shocked when I saw the exam, and so many questions that have no relevance to the job but obviously someones picked out many obscure details from manuals charts and aerodynamics. Unfortunately I came just short of a pass. I'll sit one more time after studying all the new info that's floating about.

Best of luck to any others going through the process!
twentyyearstoolate is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2015, 06:29
  #72 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 240
Those who read the China Daily may recall an article of some 3 years ago where the head of the CAAC (a former CA pilot himself) was commenting on the future of foreign pilots in China.

The thrust of his comments was that foreign pilots will have a role in the PRC airlines for the foreseeable future however they would only be the 'good pilots'. Aspertions had been made (by local pilots, and not totally unfounded) about the quality of some of the incoming foreigners. As the supply of rated pilots dried up, they got closer to the bottom of the barrel.

What you are seeing is one of their typically inappropriate responses to the perceived problem.

See: Skies too friendly for foreign pilots-
Karunch is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2015, 17:57
  #73 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 979
Brass tax gents....!

What's the pay like for DEC during that year you will be in training before you are actually released as a commander (P1) on trips?

If you don't want to publish it, please send a PM

Thank you

Last edited by The Dominican; 4th Dec 2015 at 18:09.
The Dominican is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2015, 21:24
  #74 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ...............
Posts: 110
Training pay is limited by time :-
Type rated ....3 months
Non Type Rated .....6 months
Regardless of where you are in the training process after the above times you move to full salary.
According to my sources ....even the Aussies don't whinge
doniedarko is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2015, 23:08
  #75 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 979
And training salary is???

According to my sources ....even the Aussies don't whinge
They have to be lying
The Dominican is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2015, 00:26
  #76 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: hotels all over the globe
Posts: 52
Hello all,

I am presently B777 captain in the Gulf, have been B744 Capt in China before, only left because the company closed.

Not afraid of China, in fact, like it, but would be frustrated if not flying as PIC often enough and having to beg for a sector to keep current. Humiliating!
Never been in that situation. When in previous job in China, was PIC most of the time on both long haul and short.
I have flown in China with many expat ex PICs who could ONLY fly as PICCs, as they had been hired for that position, and would get full Command when the company expended, it never did, and I saw how all of them got immensely frustrated sooner than expected. Those who think they don't care about not flying as commanders may be soon realizing they do care.

Please tell us, if those who come with considerable PIC time on 777 will only fly as second captain (relief ) or this is only the case for those who join as NTR.

I just read that PARC has new terms and are inviting for a roadshow in AMS this week. I am temptated!

My wife (European) likes China and the Chinese people, she even learned Mandarin when we lived there. She cannot say same about the people from the hot sands.

Gulf contracts are excellent when children are still benefiting from school allowances, but as in my case they just lost it, by age, the package here looses value and China becomes more attractive.
ricfly744 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2015, 09:08
  #77 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: toontown
Posts: 59
Please go back and read previous posts regarding PIC in CSA. Foreign Cpts in CSA are never PIC unless on a domestic flight. These guys have been in CSA for 3-4 years and do one trip per month PIC. No matter which way you look at it, on the mission sheet the PIC's name is written in Chinese. You are the SCAP. End of story. You need to ask for a sector which will involve either a take off or a landing only. Anyone who tries to convince you otherwise is fooling you and themselves. There are some guys in CSA from Air China and they were PIC there but not here.
outside limits is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2015, 14:59
  #78 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 54
Has anyone attended the roadshow in AMS today? Still undecided about going after reading all this ppprune waffle!

Some massively varied opinions, but thanks for all the honesty. I'm sure it's all meant well..
countdownconundrum is offline  
Old 9th Dec 2015, 05:45
  #79 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: My Place
Posts: 26
As someone mentioned, if you do have a go, stick with GABS or LONGREACH or possibly BAA.

I've been here for 2 years now. Generally OK apart from some of the already mentioned issues. But where doesn't have issues?

Unfortunately I went with a smaller agency and am now stuck. I have heard all the Tasman stories and if true, maybe Capt Tired was spot on??

With the benefit of hindsight, I would certainly only recommend one of these 3 if coming to CSA.

Good luck.
777newbie is offline  
Old 10th Dec 2015, 07:41
  #80 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 979
Salary during training? Please PM me if you don't want to post on the open forum....!

The Dominican is offline  

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