Hainan 787
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Hainan 787
Hey Guys,
Anyone on the 787, or other aircraft with a 4 week on 4 week off roster. If so can you care to comment on how it is working out etc.
thanks
Anyone on the 787, or other aircraft with a 4 week on 4 week off roster. If so can you care to comment on how it is working out etc.
thanks
"There are currently no expatriates on the 787 at Hainan". Quoted by an agency.
What remains to be seen is if the burden of paperwork, checks and rechecks (which can take up to a year if the China Southern experience is a guideline) that slows down the pipeline can somehow still meet the demand for pilots for 30 787s.
Lots of interest I suspect but who has a spare 11 days (including travel) to spend on a job interview?
A decade or more ago, getting flying in China was easy. Perhaps they suspected that what was rampant in their own country was rampant in the rest of the world and decided to up the ante on the paperwork burden.
What remains to be seen is if the burden of paperwork, checks and rechecks (which can take up to a year if the China Southern experience is a guideline) that slows down the pipeline can somehow still meet the demand for pilots for 30 787s.
Lots of interest I suspect but who has a spare 11 days (including travel) to spend on a job interview?
A decade or more ago, getting flying in China was easy. Perhaps they suspected that what was rampant in their own country was rampant in the rest of the world and decided to up the ante on the paperwork burden.
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Evidently Hainan has listened to some issues brought up by the agencies regarding the length of the interviews. They are now broken up into I believe they said 2 days at a time but that means several trips to the interview site.
They are hiring 777 captains who will then be trained on the 787. Longreach also mentioned the 787's are mostly for US and Europe expansion.
Regards to foreign basing…. The airline needs to have from 6 to 8 pilots wanting to go to any particular base whether North America, Australia or European cities. They mentioned a few bases are full… I think it was Amsterdam and Melbourne. It seems it's a reverse type rostering system when based outside China.
1 month on, 1 month off…. WOW!!!
K
They are hiring 777 captains who will then be trained on the 787. Longreach also mentioned the 787's are mostly for US and Europe expansion.
Regards to foreign basing…. The airline needs to have from 6 to 8 pilots wanting to go to any particular base whether North America, Australia or European cities. They mentioned a few bases are full… I think it was Amsterdam and Melbourne. It seems it's a reverse type rostering system when based outside China.
1 month on, 1 month off…. WOW!!!
K
There are no expats on the B787 so the statement that the bases are full is a nonsensical one. They do not offer month on/off either. The least work/pay option is two weeks on/off.
Bases for the 787 will be PVG and SIN. The assessment is two five day sessions if you can believe it!!!!
Bases for the 787 will be PVG and SIN. The assessment is two five day sessions if you can believe it!!!!
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Masik....Not so!
Masik perhaps you missed it, but emails from 3 different story Agencies, all indicate 5 Roster patterns to include month on / month off, or even 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off..
To Quote ads on Flight Global..
" Fly for this highly regarded Airline! this is lucrative positions for top professionals.
Fantastic new pay package and bonus. 5 different working patterns to choose from including local and 1 month on 1 month off; free international tickets and ID travel.
This contract can offers:
Generous pay and benefits package upto US$21,500 monthly earning plus overtime on top
5 different roster pattern to choose from
Generous contract renewal bonus up to $20000
Paid annual leave and sick leave
Free international tickets and ID travel
Fantastic Medical insurance， loss of license insurance and schooling allowances for two children
Commuting /residential bases include all HNA international destinations in Europe, North America, Asia and so on. "
To Quote ads on Flight Global..
" Fly for this highly regarded Airline! this is lucrative positions for top professionals.
Fantastic new pay package and bonus. 5 different working patterns to choose from including local and 1 month on 1 month off; free international tickets and ID travel.
This contract can offers:
Generous pay and benefits package upto US$21,500 monthly earning plus overtime on top
5 different roster pattern to choose from
Generous contract renewal bonus up to $20000
Paid annual leave and sick leave
Free international tickets and ID travel
Fantastic Medical insurance， loss of license insurance and schooling allowances for two children
Commuting /residential bases include all HNA international destinations in Europe, North America, Asia and so on. "
Last edited by Dihedral1; 20th Apr 2015 at 09:31. Reason: Clarity
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Maisk...
The briefing we all received in Dubai from Longreach said Hainan was offering month on/month off rosters. The basings mentioned that were full were not all for 787s. It was for airbus and Boeing and I believe it was for CSA
Also the interviews at Hainan are no longer 5 consecutive days. They have broken them up due to most piloting rosters not allowing for more than a few days at a time.
Kap
The briefing we all received in Dubai from Longreach said Hainan was offering month on/month off rosters. The basings mentioned that were full were not all for 787s. It was for airbus and Boeing and I believe it was for CSA
Also the interviews at Hainan are no longer 5 consecutive days. They have broken them up due to most piloting rosters not allowing for more than a few days at a time.
Kap
Yes but the first clue as to what you will be dealing with is the expectation that any pilot can spare 11 days from a roster for an interview process. Let alone the spectacular levels of Alice in Wonderland bs that you will undoubtedly encounter when you get there. Many years ago Captain Olster applied for a DEC position with a 'glamorous' Asian airline from a UK airline run by a famous 'entrepreneur'. I was sent a standby Econ ticket (gee, thanks) to not -mentioned Far Eastern destination but the problem was the return as I was due to fly the next day. After phoning and politely asking whether the return could be 'firmed up' due work commitments I was then subjected to a harangue about my lack of suitability for the position. The mild suggestion that 'going sick' for my current company to facilitate the interview was not exactly the personal qualities required did not resonate at any level. Be careful what you wish for.
Cheers.
Cheers.
I stand corrected on the month on/off bit as it is worded as "4 & 4 Commuting" (weeks?) in my documentation.
And yes the Melbourne base is full for the CSA A330 reverse scheduling but that is not what this thread is about.
"Be aware that you will operate mostly domestic flights. International flights are crewed with Chinese"- I very much doubt it with numbers they have on order and their expansion plans internationally.
What remains to be seen is if the burden of paperwork will be less than the CSA experience.
And yes the Melbourne base is full for the CSA A330 reverse scheduling but that is not what this thread is about.
"Be aware that you will operate mostly domestic flights. International flights are crewed with Chinese"- I very much doubt it with numbers they have on order and their expansion plans internationally.
What remains to be seen is if the burden of paperwork will be less than the CSA experience.
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Agree
Agree Silberfuchs, their plans seems to suggest 787 flying will be predominantly international, wouldn't expect it to be domestic..
Hainan Airlines order for 30 787-9s underscores trans-pac growth. Partnerships will need to increase | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
Hainan Airlines order for 30 787-9s underscores trans-pac growth. Partnerships will need to increase | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
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The real storey
I worked at Hainan Airlines. The airline has many CRM issues, the local pilots do not want or like foreigners. There are literally physical fights on board multi crew flights. The Chinese have no appreciation of the term professional. Standards of safety fall short of European operations. They flaunt rules on flight deck and smoke on board. This is why they offer good salary...no one wants to work there it is hell.
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Witness of a big lie, "A five star airline?" ...my ass!
Not to mention the luxury accommodation in China which is short of the standards of the barracks in the military, you face issues such as:
1. Staying with F/A's, and Chinese Flight Crews who are relentless smokers and boisterous, sleepless nights.
2. Rooms with precarious issues such as showers leaking, toilet flush defective, no fridge, no iron table, no breakfast or restaurants nearby, airport traffic overhead every two minutes, mattresses as hard as a rock.
3. Flying rosters that do not go beyond one week, Chinese schedulers cannot digest more than seven days, your life depends on decisions of cheap labor; they violate every days off request. You spend the month deadheading from one station to the other, to fly unexpectedly for days, weeks, months without being told you need more than a weekend set of clothes/uniforms.
No money in the world can replace your quiet and comfort wherever you are, and remember they want you to move to this dump land with family, misery galore, and your salary depends on bonuses that are subject to smooth landings, or maybe the emotional estate of the manager who decides when and what to pay of your long overdue claims, regardless of contractual agreements.
Road shows have been conducted in Europe, most recently Panama, and they continue advertising for benefits beyond salary that are not in place to-date, such as Medical Insurance, LoL insurance and schooling for your children. All a failed plan to attract more pilots, such is the same plan to offer narrow body pilots the chance for NTR on the B787, another failed project like most of HNA.
This Chinese venture is a scam, come and join the Masters of Deception, "welcome to your future", as advertised in the Hna-Overseas website.
1. Staying with F/A's, and Chinese Flight Crews who are relentless smokers and boisterous, sleepless nights.
2. Rooms with precarious issues such as showers leaking, toilet flush defective, no fridge, no iron table, no breakfast or restaurants nearby, airport traffic overhead every two minutes, mattresses as hard as a rock.
3. Flying rosters that do not go beyond one week, Chinese schedulers cannot digest more than seven days, your life depends on decisions of cheap labor; they violate every days off request. You spend the month deadheading from one station to the other, to fly unexpectedly for days, weeks, months without being told you need more than a weekend set of clothes/uniforms.
No money in the world can replace your quiet and comfort wherever you are, and remember they want you to move to this dump land with family, misery galore, and your salary depends on bonuses that are subject to smooth landings, or maybe the emotional estate of the manager who decides when and what to pay of your long overdue claims, regardless of contractual agreements.
Road shows have been conducted in Europe, most recently Panama, and they continue advertising for benefits beyond salary that are not in place to-date, such as Medical Insurance, LoL insurance and schooling for your children. All a failed plan to attract more pilots, such is the same plan to offer narrow body pilots the chance for NTR on the B787, another failed project like most of HNA.
This Chinese venture is a scam, come and join the Masters of Deception, "welcome to your future", as advertised in the Hna-Overseas website.
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Back from HNA - B787
Guys, just got back from HNA assessment.
What I found out so far:
- screening = 2 phases (medical and atp test + sim assessment)
each phase last about a week. They are very SLOW on the hole process.
- there is no 2 weeks on/off period.
- 4 weeks on/off is ONLY for B777 or B787 rated (not 767 as I am)
- contracts are 100% resident (25k usd); 8 days off (23k usd)or 11 days off (21k usd).
* salary is approximate and considering ALL benefits such as housing, health insurance, etc)
- no base overseas at all. (you can commute though, but its not a base!)
- only base for the 787 is PEK so far.
- no foreigners at 787 so far! That is weird. But: there are at least 2 on ground training.
- was said by the HR lady that ground training takes about 45 days and flight training from 3 to 6 months.
- domestic flights are usually 30% but can get up to 70% on high season.
- They looked nice at the company though; warm reception.
I would like to get more information from someone that has already signed the contract or is at the ground/flight training or even better solo flying already.
Cheers.
What I found out so far:
- screening = 2 phases (medical and atp test + sim assessment)
each phase last about a week. They are very SLOW on the hole process.
- there is no 2 weeks on/off period.
- 4 weeks on/off is ONLY for B777 or B787 rated (not 767 as I am)
- contracts are 100% resident (25k usd); 8 days off (23k usd)or 11 days off (21k usd).
* salary is approximate and considering ALL benefits such as housing, health insurance, etc)
- no base overseas at all. (you can commute though, but its not a base!)
- only base for the 787 is PEK so far.
- no foreigners at 787 so far! That is weird. But: there are at least 2 on ground training.
- was said by the HR lady that ground training takes about 45 days and flight training from 3 to 6 months.
- domestic flights are usually 30% but can get up to 70% on high season.
- They looked nice at the company though; warm reception.
I would like to get more information from someone that has already signed the contract or is at the ground/flight training or even better solo flying already.
Cheers.
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Go back from phase 1 with vor holdings. Everything very well organized.
2 Russians B737 already flying B787. They went direct entry after 2 months training and are the first foreigners B787NTR.
It is not true only PEK base. They choose Shenzhen.
Waiting for phase 2
2 Russians B737 already flying B787. They went direct entry after 2 months training and are the first foreigners B787NTR.
It is not true only PEK base. They choose Shenzhen.
Waiting for phase 2
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I would like to get more information from someone that has already signed the contract or is at the ground/flight training or even better solo flying already.
http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...lot-china.html
Zippyshare.com - Flying Upside Down.pdf
Best of luck to all on your journey into this fascinating world of aviation.
L.G.
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I posted this on another thread but it applies equally here.
For those considering the NTR 787 program I would advise some caution. On paper it looks good but Hainan is notoriously untrustworthy. The off days offered on the commuting contract may or may not be consecutive. One contract choice is 8 days off and another is 11 days off. The recruiters and agents will tell you the Lies you want to hear but don't trust them. The Off days will most likely be non-consecutive. This will most likely be a Cruise Captain job for at least 3 years. You will be paid as a Captain but never be the PIC listed on the flight dispatch (flight assignment). This makes using this flight time almost useless for follow on jobs outside of China. Almost every job application will specifically state only list the PIC as flight time when you signed for the aircraft and were listed on the flight release as the PIC. Parc and Rishworth and Korean airlines are well aware of Chinese PIC flight times. Another issue is not being able to land the aircraft unless the PIC is an Instructor. Normally the Captain (PIC) or FO will do all the takeoffs and landings unless the PIC is an Instructor so you will have lots of Cruise captain time. Hainan is notorious for 1+ year training programs so you will only receive 70% of salary for the 1st year. When flying many of the chinese pilots smoke profusely so expect the PIC and the FO to smoke non stop while you are their crusie captain getting them coffee. Things to consider. For those wanting more info. on the Chinese atp written test there is a thread explaining it in detail with links to other information sources. It may be a bit dated but not much has changed here.
For those considering the NTR 787 program I would advise some caution. On paper it looks good but Hainan is notoriously untrustworthy. The off days offered on the commuting contract may or may not be consecutive. One contract choice is 8 days off and another is 11 days off. The recruiters and agents will tell you the Lies you want to hear but don't trust them. The Off days will most likely be non-consecutive. This will most likely be a Cruise Captain job for at least 3 years. You will be paid as a Captain but never be the PIC listed on the flight dispatch (flight assignment). This makes using this flight time almost useless for follow on jobs outside of China. Almost every job application will specifically state only list the PIC as flight time when you signed for the aircraft and were listed on the flight release as the PIC. Parc and Rishworth and Korean airlines are well aware of Chinese PIC flight times. Another issue is not being able to land the aircraft unless the PIC is an Instructor. Normally the Captain (PIC) or FO will do all the takeoffs and landings unless the PIC is an Instructor so you will have lots of Cruise captain time. Hainan is notorious for 1+ year training programs so you will only receive 70% of salary for the 1st year. When flying many of the chinese pilots smoke profusely so expect the PIC and the FO to smoke non stop while you are their crusie captain getting them coffee. Things to consider. For those wanting more info. on the Chinese atp written test there is a thread explaining it in detail with links to other information sources. It may be a bit dated but not much has changed here.
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Not Cruise Captains
Wyoming 
why do you come on all the China threads degrading our jobs? I'm a China Southern Skipper and I can assure you I am not a cruise Captain 
but you are right that on 4 crew flights I am the 2nd Captain but that will soon change. I am however PIC on domestic flights just like you are, Im sure it's the same deal at Hainan 787. Would that not be acceptable to other world airlines? So I resent you calling us cruise captains. Have you ever even done any long haul flying?
I realise you SH guys get paid more than us but I believe that is fair as you no doubt work harder.
Btw I'm quite confident I could walk in to KAL DEC on the B777 tomorrow.
why do you come on all the China threads degrading our jobs? I'm a China Southern Skipper and I can assure you I am not a cruise Captain but you are right that on 4 crew flights I am the 2nd Captain but that will soon change. I am however PIC on domestic flights just like you are, Im sure it's the same deal at Hainan 787. Would that not be acceptable to other world airlines? So I resent you calling us cruise captains. Have you ever even done any long haul flying?I realise you SH guys get paid more than us but I believe that is fair as you no doubt work harder.
Btw I'm quite confident I could walk in to KAL DEC on the B777 tomorrow.