Petition filed against dgca(india) on change.org
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Petition filed against dgca(india) on change.org
I have written a petition against DGCA(INDIA) to change their old regulation.
I would require everyone's support to get this done. This petition is for Indian Pilots as well Expat pilots trying for a job in India.
I would like request the moderators and other members to spread this petition on this blog where the aviation industry info are for free and very helpful. From aspiring Pilots to the veterans of the Aviation industry.
Your support will be grateful.
Thank you for your time.
https://www.change.org/p/dgca-india-...ter_responsive
I would require everyone's support to get this done. This petition is for Indian Pilots as well Expat pilots trying for a job in India.
I would like request the moderators and other members to spread this petition on this blog where the aviation industry info are for free and very helpful. From aspiring Pilots to the veterans of the Aviation industry.
Your support will be grateful.
Thank you for your time.
https://www.change.org/p/dgca-india-...ter_responsive
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Expats do not convert their airmen certificates. They are issued FATAs (Foreign Aircrew Temporary Authorization) by the DGCA after various requirements have been satisfied.
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I dont get why ?
I see your point its a stupid outdated rule the rest of the world gave away within in 1960... some developed countries never had this rule...
BUt "Help the aspiring pilot who cant afford training in west and has to crush their dreams of becoming a Pilot"
How will removing this rule change the cost of learning to fly ???
I see your point its a stupid outdated rule the rest of the world gave away within in 1960... some developed countries never had this rule...
BUt "Help the aspiring pilot who cant afford training in west and has to crush their dreams of becoming a Pilot"
How will removing this rule change the cost of learning to fly ???
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Some people are born with the passion of flying, some are not. Some realize after they have finished school and some realize after college degrees. These rules are some of the many that has to be scrapped.
In India flying schools are not able to generate profits because rules like this are only meant for people who have taken Physics and Maths in school. Generally, Indian schools offer two streams- Commerce and Science, very less schools offer subjects which can be chosen by the students like accounting ohysics and maths or other combinations.
I know people who have the passion flying but unfortunately they were in Commerce stream but were very passionate and could have become better pilots if OUR DGCA didnt have that physics and maths regulation.
opening up and reforming the DGCA regulation can be useful for students who are not from Science streams and can achieve their dream despite being accountants by educational qualifications.
Then there are some grumpy old grandpa who dont like this kind of petitions. They think that they have worked their ass off to get better grade in Science and wouldnt let the system open, these grumpy old grandpa are captains and instructors at a very high position and fear loss of job and Power.
This petition is for the future students. People have right to learn anything they want and no DGCA or any kind of entity can stop them from doing so.
It is not for Indians pilots but anyone can pledge their support for this cause.
If this campaign is successful I will forward it to AOPA-India so that they can help in advocating this issue to DGCA. They have been siccessful in the past and they will be successful in the future.
In India flying schools are not able to generate profits because rules like this are only meant for people who have taken Physics and Maths in school. Generally, Indian schools offer two streams- Commerce and Science, very less schools offer subjects which can be chosen by the students like accounting ohysics and maths or other combinations.
I know people who have the passion flying but unfortunately they were in Commerce stream but were very passionate and could have become better pilots if OUR DGCA didnt have that physics and maths regulation.
opening up and reforming the DGCA regulation can be useful for students who are not from Science streams and can achieve their dream despite being accountants by educational qualifications.
Then there are some grumpy old grandpa who dont like this kind of petitions. They think that they have worked their ass off to get better grade in Science and wouldnt let the system open, these grumpy old grandpa are captains and instructors at a very high position and fear loss of job and Power.
This petition is for the future students. People have right to learn anything they want and no DGCA or any kind of entity can stop them from doing so.
It is not for Indians pilots but anyone can pledge their support for this cause.
If this campaign is successful I will forward it to AOPA-India so that they can help in advocating this issue to DGCA. They have been siccessful in the past and they will be successful in the future.
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Why make it so complicated?
pranav_d
Sometimes it's a better idea to work with the system than try to fight against it. There is no point fighting a battle you can't win.
Indian Bureaucracy is the perfect example.
Get your Maths and Physics to the required level - it's an important part of flying - these are relevant studies. It will only help you.
Sometimes it's a better idea to work with the system than try to fight against it. There is no point fighting a battle you can't win.
Indian Bureaucracy is the perfect example.
Get your Maths and Physics to the required level - it's an important part of flying - these are relevant studies. It will only help you.
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Stop Seeking Support Please
Mr Pranav_d,
I understand your concern, but let me remind you of something that perhaps you are already aware of just so that you know where aviation in India stands as of today.
You want the DGCA to get rid of the maths and Physics pre-requisite for candidates to be eligible to have their licences converted to Indian CPL?Do you even know what repercussions that may have on the already saturated Indian CPL (Freshers) market?There are pilots here (including me) who have been without jobs for most part of this decade and the number of freshly minted pilots is only increasing every month(Check DGCA stats).Less spoken the better when it comes to keeping the licence current.I hope everyone on this forum would agree with me on that .
I dont see any reason why the DGCA should change the rules now, just so that you can come out of your rosy cozy closet and jump the queue and grab that job which deserving CPL guys find it so elusive even with a type rating.Why on earth do you think I would want to give up my seat to some expat who wants to move up the ladder by writing petitions and stuff.
See I don't disagree with the fact that DGCA needs to amend a few rules, but "hey" show some concern to the guys who already have a CPL and have all their licences and rating current.Make some provisions or arrangements for CPL guys who already exist in India first and then probably change rules.I am up for our CPL brethren who are still without jobs.
And stop asking for support here from forum members for god sake.We all know what it is dealing with the DGCA and we have done it ourselves.Its time you get up from your slumber land and do things yourself too.By asking for support you are just making your life easy, we aint so naive to overlook that atleast.
I understand your concern, but let me remind you of something that perhaps you are already aware of just so that you know where aviation in India stands as of today.
You want the DGCA to get rid of the maths and Physics pre-requisite for candidates to be eligible to have their licences converted to Indian CPL?Do you even know what repercussions that may have on the already saturated Indian CPL (Freshers) market?There are pilots here (including me) who have been without jobs for most part of this decade and the number of freshly minted pilots is only increasing every month(Check DGCA stats).Less spoken the better when it comes to keeping the licence current.I hope everyone on this forum would agree with me on that .
I dont see any reason why the DGCA should change the rules now, just so that you can come out of your rosy cozy closet and jump the queue and grab that job which deserving CPL guys find it so elusive even with a type rating.Why on earth do you think I would want to give up my seat to some expat who wants to move up the ladder by writing petitions and stuff.
See I don't disagree with the fact that DGCA needs to amend a few rules, but "hey" show some concern to the guys who already have a CPL and have all their licences and rating current.Make some provisions or arrangements for CPL guys who already exist in India first and then probably change rules.I am up for our CPL brethren who are still without jobs.
And stop asking for support here from forum members for god sake.We all know what it is dealing with the DGCA and we have done it ourselves.Its time you get up from your slumber land and do things yourself too.By asking for support you are just making your life easy, we aint so naive to overlook that atleast.
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I totally agree to your point, even though it is pointless I am happy that I got a chance to take this initiative. Who knows this becomes a successful initiative and DGCA has to give answers.
We cant go to court and scream on top of our voices to be heard, we can do it in a silent but more effective way. With the help of internet we canreach masses. With help blogs like PPRUNE we can reach the aviation community. AOPA-India has filed petition and DGCA was forced to answer and amend them.
It is an initiative, everyone can support. Spread the word.
This will be forwaded to AOPA-India where it will be dealt more professionally.
We cant go to court and scream on top of our voices to be heard, we can do it in a silent but more effective way. With the help of internet we canreach masses. With help blogs like PPRUNE we can reach the aviation community. AOPA-India has filed petition and DGCA was forced to answer and amend them.
It is an initiative, everyone can support. Spread the word.
This will be forwaded to AOPA-India where it will be dealt more professionally.
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Equinox, I am no expat. I am a citizen of India. One of the reasons of less jobs in the Aviation Industry in India is because laws are very restrictive to open up the aviation indistry. No foreign carrier can come to India and start up their airlines. Or even want to partner. Recently jetairways partenered with etihad and singapore airlines with vistara. Spice jet issue. Kingfisher was bankrupt.
First are the laws that dont let foreign carriers invest and even if they do they have to go through a lot of pain to get partnered with regional airliner.
Second, corruption. Either the laws are too strict or has too many loopholes, from a invester POV i wont invest in India if rules are giving a hard time and corruption is at its peak.
Third, why shouldnt DGCA open up their rules? If a person wants to fly he can despite knowing the condition of industry.
This initiative is not forced upon you. You are welcome to support it. You have right not to support it. It is not specifically this regulation but changing or reforming DGCA is the main purpose.
Your point is valid. Less regulation more entry into industry more unemployment.
BUT you cannot stop someone from coming into this industry, all have their choices.
Your son or daughter is as passionate as you are. Will you still stop them from entering just because you are facing unemployment.
I am sure despite your unemployment you are still passionate about flying as you were when you started.
We all have our opinions. You have yours and every opinion are welcome.
At the end it is just about the support to get a better system where a person doesnt have to deal with bureaucracy.
First are the laws that dont let foreign carriers invest and even if they do they have to go through a lot of pain to get partnered with regional airliner.
Second, corruption. Either the laws are too strict or has too many loopholes, from a invester POV i wont invest in India if rules are giving a hard time and corruption is at its peak.
Third, why shouldnt DGCA open up their rules? If a person wants to fly he can despite knowing the condition of industry.
This initiative is not forced upon you. You are welcome to support it. You have right not to support it. It is not specifically this regulation but changing or reforming DGCA is the main purpose.
Your point is valid. Less regulation more entry into industry more unemployment.
BUT you cannot stop someone from coming into this industry, all have their choices.
Your son or daughter is as passionate as you are. Will you still stop them from entering just because you are facing unemployment.
I am sure despite your unemployment you are still passionate about flying as you were when you started.
We all have our opinions. You have yours and every opinion are welcome.
At the end it is just about the support to get a better system where a person doesnt have to deal with bureaucracy.
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Equinox,
If I wanted to make things easy for me I wouldnt have taken this initiative in the first place. I would have gone with the wind and started taking science lessons.
Btw you mentioned CPL.. Time has gone when they hired CPLs. atpl is the new requirement.
If I wanted to make things easy for me I wouldnt have taken this initiative in the first place. I would have gone with the wind and started taking science lessons.
Btw you mentioned CPL.. Time has gone when they hired CPLs. atpl is the new requirement.
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If I wanted to make things easy for me I wouldn't have taken this initiative in the first place. I would have gone with the wind and started taking science lessons.
I think its time you take Science lessons then.Because you don't get free lunch and certainly not in Aviation atleast.
And if you want to get Airborne, then please go against the wind not with the wind.
With regards to CPL vs ATPL let me inform your not so well informed mind that Indigo's recently concluded exam was for CPL guys,Jet airways has been conducting written exams for CPL guys since the last few years.So stop playing the harp that ATPL is the new requirement, although any higher licence is more than welcome.
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This will be forwaded to AOPA-India where it will be dealt more professionally.
Why revolt and protest now.You should have done that when the aviation industry in India was going through a lull.Now you have suddenly woken up to realise that you don't have the required Science subjects to get an Indian licence at the time when the aviation sector in India is gathering steam.And you don't want to lose the opportunity either.So what do you do....OK LET ME GARNER SUPPORT.
You are trying to persuade other forum members into agreeing to your demand just because a few archaic laws affect you today.
Yes i agree everyone has his or her own say and I am no one to comment on that.But I simply dont see a reason you asking other forum members to bail you out.
Just give a maths + Physics exam here from any University in India and you are good to go.And besides what Eric Janson said makes sense, because maths and physics are to a certain extent relevant.It may or may not help you develop your flying skills, thats a point of debate.
and lastly pranav_d..............Dont get me wrong.......I just feel for the CPL or ATPL guys with no jobs.....as simple as it could get.........................all the best with your endeavour
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petition
I definitely am not a fan of our DGCA but don't think this petition is correct. Maths and physics can give a better understanding and preparation for ATPL ground subjects which are of similar standards to the JAA subjects. IF you want some things changed, then here goes:
1. Why have an oral examination for the ATPL when the candidate has successfully passed all ground subjects? We all know what wonderful questions are asked in these ...
2. Why mandate 100% BA tests when no other country or ICAO mandates the same? Imagine doing the same for ALL flights in Europe/US with a tolerance of .001 for BA positive and the best part , if you forget to do it before/after a flight you're grounded for 3 months
3.Get a plastic smart card for the license and put the onus of currency and renewal on the airline/candidate .Less paperwork = more efficiency.
4. Do away with the RTR altogether . The less said about that fiasco the better.
5.Do away with Supervised takeoff and Landing(STOL) rules . You expect a co-pilot who has never landed in actual X-winds > 10 knots or low visibility ops to suddenly be A-OK with a command course and some LOFT/Route checks??? With some airlines upgrading with 2500 hours total and age 23 , it's a recipe for disaster. Put the onus on the airline and it's captains to use their judgement , isn't that what we're supposed to do anyways?
The list could go on and on ....so pranav my suggestion, man up, go hit those maths and science books , pass the papers , get your CPL and whatever else you can manage and join the queue .
masalama
1. Why have an oral examination for the ATPL when the candidate has successfully passed all ground subjects? We all know what wonderful questions are asked in these ...
2. Why mandate 100% BA tests when no other country or ICAO mandates the same? Imagine doing the same for ALL flights in Europe/US with a tolerance of .001 for BA positive and the best part , if you forget to do it before/after a flight you're grounded for 3 months
3.Get a plastic smart card for the license and put the onus of currency and renewal on the airline/candidate .Less paperwork = more efficiency.
4. Do away with the RTR altogether . The less said about that fiasco the better.
5.Do away with Supervised takeoff and Landing(STOL) rules . You expect a co-pilot who has never landed in actual X-winds > 10 knots or low visibility ops to suddenly be A-OK with a command course and some LOFT/Route checks??? With some airlines upgrading with 2500 hours total and age 23 , it's a recipe for disaster. Put the onus on the airline and it's captains to use their judgement , isn't that what we're supposed to do anyways?
The list could go on and on ....so pranav my suggestion, man up, go hit those maths and science books , pass the papers , get your CPL and whatever else you can manage and join the queue .
masalama
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Petition filed against dgca(india) on change.org
No doubt one needs a knowledge of Maths and Physics, but if you see on the other side of he globe you will know that every person can come into this industry, no one is stopped by ancient regulations. Some need more hard work to achieve.
Even without physics and Maths people have become pilots. Why cant DGCA be less restrictive.
As I stated above it's not just this rule. Its an initiative to reform DGCA as a whole. I chose this regulation because it is an entry level for aspiring students. The regulation which you have stated will be stated in future petition if this petition reaches its full support.
You have the right no to support but remember this petition is for DGCA reformation starting from an entry level. Everyones support will be appreciated.
Even without physics and Maths people have become pilots. Why cant DGCA be less restrictive.
As I stated above it's not just this rule. Its an initiative to reform DGCA as a whole. I chose this regulation because it is an entry level for aspiring students. The regulation which you have stated will be stated in future petition if this petition reaches its full support.
You have the right no to support but remember this petition is for DGCA reformation starting from an entry level. Everyones support will be appreciated.
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Hello Pranav,
I think this rule is fair as one should have some background of physics and mathematics to understand ground subjects, during my training days I saw how many mates struggled in AD/Nav who did physics & maths from NOS.
More over after CPL when you will sit for Airline exams again they will ask you question based on physics & mathematics - As Masalama wrote it will help you only in long run.
PS: Dont start your training with filing a case on DGCA, Just Dont.
IK
I think this rule is fair as one should have some background of physics and mathematics to understand ground subjects, during my training days I saw how many mates struggled in AD/Nav who did physics & maths from NOS.
More over after CPL when you will sit for Airline exams again they will ask you question based on physics & mathematics - As Masalama wrote it will help you only in long run.
PS: Dont start your training with filing a case on DGCA, Just Dont.
IK
Last edited by ikarus-; 9th Mar 2015 at 22:33.
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Pranav, do you know what India's greatest export to the world is? Its Human Resources! And we manage to do that in part because our two most prominent school boards and elite institutions of higher learning set higher than average international standards. It is a different matter that because the delivery of education is not as good as the standards, we do not get the desired results. We need a lot of catching up to do with the world when it comes to standard of living. When you are left behind in a race, you need to run even faster than the man in the front. Its that simple!
So i disagree with your argument that just because other countries have done away with Maths and Physics requirement, we should do that as well. There is no limit to how low you can take the standards. Dumb-ing down of the education system in western countries has created an opportunity for us. Should we just let go of this opportunity?
My personal experience is that 11/12th maths and science does help with pilot licensing exams.
But hey, congratulations on your pro-active approach in dealing with government agencies. That is admirable
So i disagree with your argument that just because other countries have done away with Maths and Physics requirement, we should do that as well. There is no limit to how low you can take the standards. Dumb-ing down of the education system in western countries has created an opportunity for us. Should we just let go of this opportunity?
My personal experience is that 11/12th maths and science does help with pilot licensing exams.
But hey, congratulations on your pro-active approach in dealing with government agencies. That is admirable