250 Hours on Type Requirement for Ex Pats - Indonesia

[November Mike]

With regards to the purported DGCA 250 hours on type requirement for ex-pats wanting to work in Indonesia, has anyone ever had sight of this legislation?

There seems to be a mountain of confusion surrounding it. Some folk are of the opinion that it doesn't apply to helicopter pilots or fixed wing pilots operating aircraft with less then x number of seats.....the variations and interpretations are endless!

So if someone who has a copy of the DGCA legislation, could you perhaps post it on this site or point me in the right direction as to where I can get a copy of it? Would be much appreciated.

Anyone with any ideas?

[sascha410]

Forgive me for not answering your question precisely enough, but i know several expats in Jakarta flying twin otters, cessna caravans and similar aircraft with no previous experience on type. They got job after implementation or practice of 250hrs rule.
I also know for sure, my own experience, they requested pruve of 250hrs on type prior my employment here (bigger aircraft).
You probably saw in other post here on pprune that someone was calming that it is only DGCAAs recommendation but anyone seams to go along with it.
And i am sorry but i do not have anything "black on white" but looking forward to see it anyway.

[November Mike]

Many thanks for the info......much appreciated! I'll hopefully hear from someone here on PPRUNE who can provide the "black and white" proof

[pilotchute]

It was posted here about 12 months ago. I don't know on what thread.

But yes it isn't legislated, it's just a temporary directive. I know because I have read it.

[Nachete]

The rule doesn't apply to the companies flying the CASR 135.
This is why you can fly a Caravan or a Twin Otter without time on type.

[portsharbourflyer]

Well some credit to the Indonesian authorities that 250 hour on type did put a stop to the pay to fly schemes that Eaglejet were running in the country.

I always assumed the requirement was introduced as a way to stop the pay to fly schemes.

[pilotchute]

Nachete,

I think what your saying is half true. I would say that the Twin Otter isn't exempt as I haven't seen a foreign FO on one of those for a very long time. The Caravan on the other hand while I think isn't "exempt", isn't seen as a major pathway for locals to enter the aviation scene so is largely left alone.

If Susi had to all of a sudden find people with 250 hours on type experience to fly in the RHS of her Caravans she would run out of hopefuls in about 5 seconds. If she upped the pay by about 3 grand a month she might have better luck though.

The memo that DGCA put out about the 250 hour rule was sent to all the small 135 operators as well as the big guys.

I think it was the right thing to do in regards to Lion but it will end up hurting aviation in Indonesia as they simply cant find enough warm bodies to fill the seats of the literally hundreds of aircraft they have coming in the next 5 years. Merpati going under may have taken the pressure off a little but it will only delay the pain.

The problem is when you have hundreds of 20 year old's willing to do "anything" to get into a jet, you end with lots of money going under the table and the problems that come with those sorts of deals. Everyone wants a cut and it just gets ridiculous the amount of people with their hands out. Hiring rated with no time on type would be fine if it simply meant being bonded.

[sascha410]

@pilotchute
I know two guys flying Twin Otter and they got it straight from the school, expats. How did they do it I do not know.
250hrs on type did not only stop low hrs p2f but also any other experienced pilot with xx000 of hrs but without magic 250 on type and in my point of view this is not best way to do it. Isn't the american way better solution with 1500tt?

[LoVeFly1896]

Hello everybody!
So, the rule is minimum 250 hours t.t.?????? or PIC??
Because I applied to Susiair, and I have 257h... but in t.t...
thnks!

[ok45]

No black and white

I doubt you will find it in Indonesian CASR. Most likely its an internal circular within the ministry, but.. Last i heard, the 250hours ON TYPE can be waived, only if the hiring company sends a love letter to the transport ministry.

[pilotchute]

Would anyone like to see the google translated version of the 250 hour rule memo?

[sascha410]

@pilotchute,
Yes please!
If you do not mind you can send (also on a private pail if you prefere) original version in Bahasa. Thank you!

[pilotchute]

Here it is with the google version underneath

1.
Sehubungan dengan te~adinya sejumlah insiden dan insiden serius pesawat udara yang melibatkan pilot asing yang tidak memiliki pengalaman terbang pada tipe yang diterbangkannya, khususnya pada Operator Penerbangan 121 dan 135, Direktorat Kelaikan Udara dan Pengoperasian Pesawat Udara -Direktorat Jenderal Perhubungan Udara memandang perlu untuk segera melakukan pencegahan agar insiden -insiden tersebut tidak te~adi lagi.
2.
Terkait dengan hal tersebut pad a butir 1 (satu) diatas, maka pilot -pilot asing yang bermaksud untuk menvalidasi licence-nya atau bermaksud untuk menggunakan licence Indonesia, wajib memiliki pengalaman minimal 250 jam terbang pada tipe pesawat yang akan diterbangkan.
3.
Para Operator Penerbangan yang bermaksud memperkerjakan pilot asing hendaknya hanya mengajukan permohonan validasi atau endorsement ke Direktorat Kelaikan Udara dan Pengoperasian Pesawat Udara setelah seluruh persyaratan termasuk persyaratan sesuai surat ini telah dipenuhi.
4.
Demikian disampaikan atas perhatian dan kerjasamanya diucapkan terima kasih.
AN. DIREKTUR JENDERAL PERHUBUNGAN UDARA DIREKTUR KELAIKAN UDARA DAN
Tembusan :
1. Direktur Jenderal Perhubungan Udara Pembina Utama Muda (IV/c) NIP. 19530626 197603 1 005
PENGOPERASI
PESAWAT UDARA

In English

1.
In connection with te ~ adinya number of incidents and serious incidents involving aircraft of foreign pilots who do not have experience in the type diterbangkannya fly, particularly at 121 and 135 Flight Plans, Directorate of Airworthiness and Aircraft Operation-DGCA sees the need for immediate prevention so that such incidents do not te ~ adi again.
2.
Related to this pad a point 1 (a) above, then the foreign pilots who intend to validate its license or intends to use the Indonesian license, shall have a minimum of 250 hours of flying experience on the type of aircraft to be flown.
3.
The Flight operator who intends to employ foreign pilots should only apply for validation or endorsement to the Directorate of Airworthiness and Aircraft Operation after all requirements including the requirements according to this letter have been met.
4.
This was conveyed for your attention and cooperation say thank you.
AN. AIR TRANSPORTATION DIRECTOR DIRECTOR GENERAL Airworthiness and
Copy to:
1. The Director General of Civil Aviation Young Patrons Main (IV / c) NIP. 19530626 197603 1005
OPERATING
AIRCRAFT

Notice it says part 121 and 135?

[ok45]

Waiver

And it seems there will be no waiver according to the letter..

[training wheels]

Originally Posted by November Mike

With regards to the purported DGCA 250 hours on type requirement for ex-pats wanting to work in Indonesia, has anyone ever had sight of this legislation?

There seems to be a mountain of confusion surrounding it. Some folk are of the opinion that it doesn't apply to helicopter pilots or fixed wing pilots operating aircraft with less then x number of seats.....the variations and interpretations are endless!

So if someone who has a copy of the DGCA legislation, could you perhaps post it on this site or point me in the right direction as to where I can get a copy of it? Would be much appreciated.

Anyone with any ideas?

Yes, I have it and here it is for downloading from the DGCA website if you'd like a copy for yourself.

http://hubud.dephub.go.id/?en/edar/download/87

There is indeed a lot of confusion over this rule since it is known that there have been foreign pilots who have a type rating with zero time on type who have been employed with certain Indonesian jet carriers. How they bypass this ruling, I'll leave it up to your imagination, but if you've lived here for as long as I have, then it's no surprise.

And here's the other new regulation that came in to effect October 2013, whereby the DGCA will no longer be issuing Indonesian licenses to foreign pilots (which includes getting an Indonesian ATPL). They will only issue validations based on your 'mother' license which means, you'll need to have your type rating on that license which I assume, means, you'll need to hire your own sim and do your yearly (or 6 monthly) proficiency checks back home.

The validation is only valid for one operator and one type rating so if you wish to move to another airline in Indonesia, (eg, Lion Air to Garuda) you'll need to to apply for a new validation.

If you already hold an Indonesian license (from the days when it was possible for foreign pilots to be issued with one), and you wish to work for a different Indonesian airline or charter company, then your Indonesian license automatically becomes invalid and you need to go through the process of applying for a validation based on your 'mother' license.

I've been told by a Lion Air recruiting officer (captain on the 737-900) that it is possible for foreign pilots at JT to get upgraded to captain, but on the condition that;

1. it's done on a validation of their 'mother license',
2. their original license has the 737NG type rating,
3. the original license will need to be an ATPL.

[November Mike]

Morning All

Any updates/changes to the 250 hour ruling with specific reference to helicopter pilots? Am I correct in saying that this directive does NOT apply to the foreign helicopter pilot?

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

[training wheels]

Originally Posted by November Mike

Morning All

Any updates/changes to the 250 hour ruling with specific reference to helicopter pilots? Am I correct in saying that this directive does NOT apply to the foreign helicopter pilot?

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

Yes, that is correct.

[ILS13]

Hey all,

I am an Australian, who holds an Indonesian License. I did my training IN Indonesia, back in 2011, when foreigners were still able to get licenses. I currently work here as an Instructor, have a total of around 1,600 Hours, with 1,400+ as PIC.

I am wondering, if there is any knowledgeable folks, might know where I fall on this 'rule'? Real confused, as I don't have a 'mother license', I guess the DGCA really jammed it up me with this.

Thanks All!

[kryptokid]

Hi, ILS

Since you have Indonesian License and did your training in Indonesia. You should try applying to any jobs available.

Besides, nothing to lose if you already have a job right?

[ILS13]

Originally Posted by kryptokid

Hi, ILS

Since you have Indonesian License and did your training in Indonesia. You should try applying to any jobs available.

Besides, nothing to lose if you already have a job right?

Yes I do have a job already, but it's not going anywhere too fast.. I want to upgrade, do something bigger, better, but no luck here.... Always get the 'you're a tourist, sori yaa'sort of answer.. 😂