Lion Air
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: where the money is
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Gee i was flying 5 on 1 off or 6 on 1 off most months, hit max hours refused to do more then got phone call from chief asking "why you no fly anymore" just another normal day in life of Lion..
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Edinburgh
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@aircupidon where are these sims conducted ,jakarta? are these the assesment sims? or are you offered a contract based on skype interview online tests like other airlines? I am still waiting for a response from them, I would actually enjoy maybe a year out there...
739ER,
How can they possibly go 4/2 when they are desperately under crewed?
Your saying you don't have to do over 100 a month (expats) yet I know local crews do this almost every month of the year.
I also want to meet the guys making 50 juta a month in the hand.
How can they possibly go 4/2 when they are desperately under crewed?
Your saying you don't have to do over 100 a month (expats) yet I know local crews do this almost every month of the year.
I also want to meet the guys making 50 juta a month in the hand.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jakarta
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Scott: Those are done after hire and in Lions B739ER sim's.
pilotchute:
- Not so much under crewed any more. Many standby every day, but besides that, the idea is to give more flights per active day, thus less active crew's needed. Same amount of crews are needed though.
- I didnt say 100 hrs. 110 is the limit and in more than 2 years in the company, I havent over flown any month. And now its less demand than half a year ago. That said, maybe some do, but its easy to stay within the limits.
- My contract give me around 54-55 for 110 hrs and around 50 for approx 100. Most expats, except indians, get that. I think your info is old.
pilotchute:
- Not so much under crewed any more. Many standby every day, but besides that, the idea is to give more flights per active day, thus less active crew's needed. Same amount of crews are needed though.
- I didnt say 100 hrs. 110 is the limit and in more than 2 years in the company, I havent over flown any month. And now its less demand than half a year ago. That said, maybe some do, but its easy to stay within the limits.
- My contract give me around 54-55 for 110 hrs and around 50 for approx 100. Most expats, except indians, get that. I think your info is old.
739ER,
You are very lucky to have a contract that pays what it does. Sorry, I know the limit is 110 a month for part 121 operators in Indo.
Much of my info comes from Lion crew (locals) who I get to speak to on a fairly regular basis. From what I'm told the local FO wage is nowhere near 50 juta a month (I thought you got local terms?).
Lion have a guy going into the DGCA almost everyday lobbying for the end of the 250 hour rule. There will be some changes in DGCA management very soon so anything could happen!
You are very lucky to have a contract that pays what it does. Sorry, I know the limit is 110 a month for part 121 operators in Indo.
Much of my info comes from Lion crew (locals) who I get to speak to on a fairly regular basis. From what I'm told the local FO wage is nowhere near 50 juta a month (I thought you got local terms?).
Lion have a guy going into the DGCA almost everyday lobbying for the end of the 250 hour rule. There will be some changes in DGCA management very soon so anything could happen!
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jakarta
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Ok, well that explains a lot.
No, expats are not on local contracts. Except indians, expats are payed far more. But also have travel cost and upkeep of national licence/medical that locals dont have.
And the locals generally have lower standard, and they may accept illigal stuff more than westerners.
As far as the 250 hr rule, the gov intended to force the industry to educate locals for the good jobs in the cockpit. It seams to work, as the airlines now train a lot of locals. They are cheaper labour. Also they stay for a much longer period. I doubt the rule will go away.
No, expats are not on local contracts. Except indians, expats are payed far more. But also have travel cost and upkeep of national licence/medical that locals dont have.
And the locals generally have lower standard, and they may accept illigal stuff more than westerners.
As far as the 250 hr rule, the gov intended to force the industry to educate locals for the good jobs in the cockpit. It seams to work, as the airlines now train a lot of locals. They are cheaper labour. Also they stay for a much longer period. I doubt the rule will go away.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: chinatown
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Lion
Scott, you will be doing the sim in bandara mas, then, you will wait more or less 5 to 6 months before flying if you take in account kitas, mandatory training, and others stuffs....
We all know that the 250h rule will be lifted (for lion) once Rusdi become minister of transportation...
We all know that the 250h rule will be lifted (for lion) once Rusdi become minister of transportation...
aircupidon,
Are you sure Rusdi wants to become minister of transport? I get the impression he wants to be the minister of agriculture.
You would think that going to the transportation ministry would be a natural progression but maybe he has a different agenda?
I think its pretty clear that the head of DGCA licencing is responsible for the rules that have taken effect in the last 18 months. If you want to be precise they are just directives. They aren't written into law so really they aren't worth the paper they are written on. Problem is when you have a position like the head of DGCA licencing you can just make sh#t up as you feel and everyone will follow it because you know, everyone is scared to speak up for fear of losing their job and/or status.
Are you sure Rusdi wants to become minister of transport? I get the impression he wants to be the minister of agriculture.
You would think that going to the transportation ministry would be a natural progression but maybe he has a different agenda?
I think its pretty clear that the head of DGCA licencing is responsible for the rules that have taken effect in the last 18 months. If you want to be precise they are just directives. They aren't written into law so really they aren't worth the paper they are written on. Problem is when you have a position like the head of DGCA licencing you can just make sh#t up as you feel and everyone will follow it because you know, everyone is scared to speak up for fear of losing their job and/or status.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 37
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Because of many reasons Speedy.
One being that they have been at the controls of many of the accidents here in Indonesia. While I'm not pointing the finger at them outright, as there has been an Indonesian captain sitting in the left hand seat... some of the stories that has come out about the 200hr wonders in the right hand seat has been mind boggling.
The other reason about the poor conditions is that Lion knows that they can offer Indian pilots those wages and they will take them without batting an eyelid, just so they can get ahead. Or at least get a job.
You only need to look back at a lot of the Indian pilots who offered to continue to work for free in India while some of the airlines were struggling. Just so they could build that jet experience.
One being that they have been at the controls of many of the accidents here in Indonesia. While I'm not pointing the finger at them outright, as there has been an Indonesian captain sitting in the left hand seat... some of the stories that has come out about the 200hr wonders in the right hand seat has been mind boggling.
The other reason about the poor conditions is that Lion knows that they can offer Indian pilots those wages and they will take them without batting an eyelid, just so they can get ahead. Or at least get a job.
You only need to look back at a lot of the Indian pilots who offered to continue to work for free in India while some of the airlines were struggling. Just so they could build that jet experience.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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You only need to look back at a lot of the Indian pilots who offered to continue to work for free in India while some of the airlines were struggling. Just so they could build that jet experience.
And you're wondering why you can't land a job?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
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I understand what you mean lilflyboy, however the fact that they've been at the controls when things have gone wrong does not justify a lower salary than their counterparts!! Get rid of someone if their not competent! Does the airline think that substandard pilots are acceptable if their paid local wages? Not saying much for the locals then, is it!!
And at captjns....I don't think lilflyboy was being racist. I'm an Indian and not one bit offended by what he says. What he says holds true for some, not all, but it isn't only India, and Indians willing to work for free or p2F!
The way I see it is simple. If I join as an expat, pay me accordingly. If Lion won't do that I'll simply look elsewhere. If the airline is paying someone based on the colour of their skin, then it's them that are racist!!
And at captjns....I don't think lilflyboy was being racist. I'm an Indian and not one bit offended by what he says. What he says holds true for some, not all, but it isn't only India, and Indians willing to work for free or p2F!
The way I see it is simple. If I join as an expat, pay me accordingly. If Lion won't do that I'll simply look elsewhere. If the airline is paying someone based on the colour of their skin, then it's them that are racist!!
Join Date: Nov 2011
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In what way was I being racist? Pull your head in mate.
And I do have a job. A very good one in fact. And the pay is better than the Lion Air F/Os.
Hifly787, how is that not working for free?
Speedy can see and understand what I was getting at. I wasn't making anything up, only stating fact. Its very much a case of the minority spoiling it for the majority. In no way did I say that all Indians are like this.
But since I'm a European male, lets play the race card shall we? Easiest way to discredit someone.
And I do have a job. A very good one in fact. And the pay is better than the Lion Air F/Os.
Hifly787, how is that not working for free?
Speedy can see and understand what I was getting at. I wasn't making anything up, only stating fact. Its very much a case of the minority spoiling it for the majority. In no way did I say that all Indians are like this.
But since I'm a European male, lets play the race card shall we? Easiest way to discredit someone.
