Hainan interview

[DescendNow]

HNA Interview

There are many people looking for good info about HNA and to date I cannot see a balanced view and any real good hard facts.

Please guys lets have some facts so that we may make our own decisions,

For example:
What happens at the interview?
What is the profile for Sim Check
Has anyone in the forum actually checked to line this year?
What is it like flying the line?
Are the rumours dated from 2012-14 still true or have times changed?

As a community dedicated to helping each other, we look forward to your help.

Thanks

[Keelhaul]

Plaze 1

Just returned from phase 1 "Medical"

I full day going through all the stations. Blood withdrawal (4 tubes) expertly done. EKG, Both lying down and treadmill (over 50 gets treadmill), no worries. Ear, Nose, Throat, I expect they have no idea what they are looking for. Ultra sound of heart and neck, that sent me to get a pulmonary MRI. (My home cardiologist said it was unnecessary as the picture that concerned the Chinese tech was due to poor ultrasound technique and interpretation. On the other hand, good to get a pulmonary MRI since I'm over 50. (I took pictures of every page after exams). Got big time flagged for eye exam, never had a problem before, even in the military. Spent an additional two days doing a field of vision test. Again, since seeing my optomologist back home, they don't know what they are looking for nor how to administer the test properly. (Glasses on 1st time, no glasses 2nd time or 3rd time. Apparently the device has a setting to correct for your prescription, never once did they ask me for mine. Oh well....

We should hear later on this week if we pass.

During the HQ brief, they have domestic capts, they need international capts. we were told, don't be surprised if you 737 guys are moved directly to the 787. Traiining pay until complete with type ride (might have been a translation error, end of OE seems more like it, but who knows?). Cruise Capt, they want us all qualified yesterday! Sign off ASAP because they have jets parked every week for lack of capts. 30 more 787s coming starting April. Same deal with the Airbus guys, more coming... 1 new airplane every 2 weeks. Foriegn pilot recruitment was tasked with hiring 80 capts this year. As of Sept they have less than 40. They will bring you back as many times as they can to get you passed.

Sim profile, my understanding is there is no profile, it's what ever the instructor wants to throw at you. I'll pass more when I get to that stage.

I'll answer any other questions I can, it was a fast paced, hectic week.

[standman]

Eye exam

Thanks for the info. RE the eye exam, do they check your peripheral vision n take a snapshot of your retina?

[LimaVictor]

Hi Keelhaul,
It seems you took the decision to go there and from what you say they are in great need of 787 skippers.
I read they ask a minimum of 500 hours on type. I am rated but only have half of the time cause we are not flying that much, you think they would call me?
I tried their webpage but clearly says 500, and I do not want to go for the NTR program cause that will put me back on the training payroll. Any suggestion? or any direct recruitment email I could write them to? And btw, which base are you taking? Is it true they base you in europe with a commuting contract or is it all bologna?
Thanks man
LV

[Keelhaul]

Go through an agent, or start filling out the HNA overseas e-application. They will get back to you.

Agent vs HNA Overseas. HNA Overseas is Hainan's in house "agent". My observation, the regular agents were more on top of things during the medical, the HNA folks seemed less experience, were distracted with regular work and keeping tabs on the progress of the other pilots. There may be other benifits with HNA down the road, I don't know. What I do know is that there are slight differences in the offered contract. Specifically one agent says $200/hr over 720hrs overtime. The HNA contract is $250/hr overtime. HNA provided the same contract to all agents to keep things the same, what the agent then offers is up to them.

If you go with an agent, make sure you know what you're signing.

[Keelhaul]

Oh yea,

787 base is only Beiging, no other bases to be offered in the near future. HNA is open to the idea though.

[JOE MAXY]

Hey

Regarding the base they mention, in the T&Cs I've received from an agency, you can choose any of their destinations.
This is probably the carrot but how is this working in practise?

Thanks

[Keelhaul]

Basing

If on a commuting contract, you will need to DH (ACM) out of one of their destination locations. In the USA, Seattle, Chicago, Boston, San Jose. if you live elsewhere, you will need to get your self to that location. Weather you consider it salary or not, $500 is for offsetting your travel related costs.

Either way, 11 days off means you will be traveling on your Off days, so Max in this case 9 days off. Keep in mind that you may be required to rest for a day after arriving in Beijing for work, I don't know if that is considered an Off or On day, I did't get that far in the process.

Keep in mind, Hainan said "not everything is perfect here, some things we are still working on, that's why we pay you so much money"

For me, I would still go, if I can get past the medical...

[Lucky Charms]

Tax Letter for Americans

Can anyone verify that, at HNA, a tax letter is issued to Americans for Chinese Income tax paid on the pilot's behalf? I was looking at CSA, but they don't issue a letter to Americans (not sure why...got confusing answer from recruiter). No letter means no tax credit. No tax credit means BIG $$$ to the IRS. Any info will be helpful.

Thanks

[Keelhaul]

Taxes

I asked that question specifically. Hainan said they will provide you with a certificate detailing taxes paid to China. The financial rep wasn't at the meeting so they couldn't be specific about the tax rate, thought it might be 20% to 25% so you will still owe Uncle Sam the difference. I thought CSA was the same, to confirm you will have to talk with some one who is flying at CSA.

[PT6Driver]

Keelhaul,
Are you able to go back for the next phase?

[CEA330Driver]

Month ON-Month OFF

I was working for another Chinese carrier for over 6 years and decided to leave once our base was closed. I was considering the Hainan contract for either the 2 week ON, 2 week OFF or the 1 Month ON, 1 Month OFF based on the fact that living in PEK, CAN or XIN were not an option for me and my family. Once I received their updated and 'improved' contract I began my due diligence. Since, these contracts should effectively allow for a patterned roster, I put together a spreadsheet allowing for the proposed scheduling. Additionally, since I was commuting from North America, I wanted/expected to be deadheading in business class like I did with my former company (when I wasn't operating from my base). I had other concerns with the contract, such as the very punitive nature that is renowned at Hainan and the subjectivity of the other 'payments.'

However, my biggest concern was the wording of how the schedules were going to be produced, that is; "a pilot will receive a MAXIMUM of 14 days OFF" or a "pilot will receive a MAXIMUM of 28 days OFF." I then changed the language to "a pilot will receive a MINIMUM of 14 days OFF" and "a pilot will receive a MINIMUM of 28 days OFF" per month. You can guess the response, sorry Hainan won't change the language of the contract. Continuing my diligence, I was fortunate to meet (just prior to my departure) a former Hainan pilot who had just joined our company. In our discussion, he confirmed my worst fears. He stated that for the first couple of months you may in fact get the 14 or 28 days off, then gradually they start to reduce this amount until you are somewhere between 8-10 days at home , AND on 2/3 the salary AND flying primarily domestic operations because they only need you for 50 hours per month.

I wouldn't advise working for this company but I understand everyone's needs are different. Just go with your eyes open and give up any expectation of having a real life with a real airline.

[CEA330Driver]

China Taxes

The China Income Tax rate should be at least 30%, at least it was at my other Chinese employer. There was a non taxable travel component which was added monthly to our salary. Best thing is to ask someone that has been there for over a year.

[Lucky Charms]

Tax Letter for Americans

Just to confirm, do the Chinese airlines pay the Chinese income tax on your behalf( not out of paycheck) and then issue a letter that can be used to get credit towards owed IRS income tax? I did speak with a pilot at CSA and he told me that Americans weren't issued a tax letter. When I spoke to the recruiter for CSA, they told me that CSA didn't have to pay income tax for Americans, therefore, there is no letter issued. I'm not sure how true this is, just what I was told. To confirm my information, please pass on info IF a tax letter is/is not issued to Americans at CSA and HNA. I would appreciate it.

[Keelhaul]

Taxes

I was just told the same thing by a current CSA pilot. No certificate for USA pilots, so no tax offset,

[SkullFlyer]

Hello Wyomingpilot. Are you currently flying for Hainan or what you said is based in what you've heard ?
Kind regards.

[SkullFlyer]

Hello Kellhaul,
Do you have any idea in what Simulator they do the Screenning for NTR to the 787 ? And about the rooster ? Any idea or exemple about it ? I am currently flying 767, I already have CAAC ATPL and medical but I am not flying for a chinese airline. I am interested in HAINAN, CSA and SF Airlines. Tough decision, any tips and opinions may help !
Tks.

[CEA330Driver]

USA Tax Obligations

If I understand correctly, all Americans must declare income regardless of where they live. Perhaps that is the reason for CSA not issuing a tax letter. That said, your salary in China should be NET taxes, so a tax receipt should be made available to you through your employer.