pilot demand in Asia
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pilot demand in Asia
Hello there,
is the demand in pilots really that high in Asia? A applied to 100s of companies there but no anwers until now.
I guess there is 500h on type needed. But if anyone has an Idea where to apply with 500hTT and a A320 TR (1 hour on Type
) just let me know ( pac84 (at) arcor (dot) de ).
Kind regards from Europe
is the demand in pilots really that high in Asia? A applied to 100s of companies there but no anwers until now.
I guess there is 500h on type needed. But if anyone has an Idea where to apply with 500hTT and a A320 TR (1 hour on Type
) just let me know ( pac84 (at) arcor (dot) de ).Kind regards from Europe
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pac84, pilot recruiting agencies, such as PARC, Sigmar, and Direct Personnel can provide you with good information for you. VOR holdings is a recruiter that specializes in Asian Carriers.
Good Luck
Good Luck
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Hi pac84,
Totally understand your situation as I myself have send more resume than you with no luck.
Every single month, there are new graduates from flying schools flooding the market and supply has exceed demand way too much that the market can absorb.
That is the market situationin asia now with thousands of jobless cpl pilots especially in india. I heard in europe it's the same if not much worst.
Applying via agencies ( Parc, wasinc, sigma, richworth, direct personal and the rest ) is useless as most of the time they want experience and hours normally 1500 total time with 500 hours on type and some as much as 3000 hours.
Vietnam is impossible now since some of my mates went to their open day last month and were shown out of the door because they are only taking locals.
Even bush flying in africa require 1000 total time now and no longer accept 250 hour cpl pilots.
at the present moment, your chance to get a job as a foreigner is Indonesia since they have the lowest requirement, you need only 250 on type to get a job there.
Unless you are local citizens, having a cpl or type rating with zero hours , your chance to get a job in asia is as good as zero.
More flying schools or TRTO need to spend more money to pay journalist to continue writing and telling the public there are pilots in demand to continue to remain in business. someone need to stop this and the public need to know the ugly truth.
In india, we have tata sia and air asia india opening jobs for cpl pilots only to be filled up by experience pilots from kingfisher and other locals airlines giving us zero chance and opportunity!
At the rate with so many pilots graduating form flying schools, sadly, a lot of pilots will never ever become a pilot in their lifetime. sad but true.
I would say your highest possibility is to get a job in europe.
Totally understand your situation as I myself have send more resume than you with no luck.
Every single month, there are new graduates from flying schools flooding the market and supply has exceed demand way too much that the market can absorb.
That is the market situationin asia now with thousands of jobless cpl pilots especially in india. I heard in europe it's the same if not much worst.
Applying via agencies ( Parc, wasinc, sigma, richworth, direct personal and the rest ) is useless as most of the time they want experience and hours normally 1500 total time with 500 hours on type and some as much as 3000 hours.
Vietnam is impossible now since some of my mates went to their open day last month and were shown out of the door because they are only taking locals.
Even bush flying in africa require 1000 total time now and no longer accept 250 hour cpl pilots.
at the present moment, your chance to get a job as a foreigner is Indonesia since they have the lowest requirement, you need only 250 on type to get a job there.
Unless you are local citizens, having a cpl or type rating with zero hours , your chance to get a job in asia is as good as zero.
More flying schools or TRTO need to spend more money to pay journalist to continue writing and telling the public there are pilots in demand to continue to remain in business. someone need to stop this and the public need to know the ugly truth.
In india, we have tata sia and air asia india opening jobs for cpl pilots only to be filled up by experience pilots from kingfisher and other locals airlines giving us zero chance and opportunity!
At the rate with so many pilots graduating form flying schools, sadly, a lot of pilots will never ever become a pilot in their lifetime. sad but true.
I would say your highest possibility is to get a job in europe.
Lingdee,
Most of what you say is true but you still can get a job in Southern Africa with 250 hours. There aren't many of these jobs but they do exist.
Susi Air take a very small amount of people every couple of months and this is about the only thing in Asia right now unless you have type rating with experience.
There are now so many guys and girls now looking for a break in a market that has been in decline in Europe for so long now that it would take 5-10 years of full on hiring to get rid of the backlog.
I work in SE Asia and we have people turning up at our office every week asking for flying jobs.
Lingdee is right. Stay at home and keep trying for anything you can get from para dropping to entry level instructing. There is nothing in Asia now for people with no time on type. Got a rating and 500 hours?? That's a different story all together!!
Most of what you say is true but you still can get a job in Southern Africa with 250 hours. There aren't many of these jobs but they do exist.
Susi Air take a very small amount of people every couple of months and this is about the only thing in Asia right now unless you have type rating with experience.
There are now so many guys and girls now looking for a break in a market that has been in decline in Europe for so long now that it would take 5-10 years of full on hiring to get rid of the backlog.
I work in SE Asia and we have people turning up at our office every week asking for flying jobs.
Lingdee is right. Stay at home and keep trying for anything you can get from para dropping to entry level instructing. There is nothing in Asia now for people with no time on type. Got a rating and 500 hours?? That's a different story all together!!
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Have to agree with the above comments, and its a sad reality. Furthermore, the FAA has made it even more stringent now with the 1500hrs rule. Training as a private candidate and graduating with a CPL and even a Type Rating with no hours is as good as being given a bicycle without the pedals. Guess the only way is to go through a cadet program, and that too if you make it into one...
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During the last week in Singapore AB and ST announced they were opening Jont training facility in Singapore.
A Gov Minister spoke of the Asia region needing 'thousands and thousands' of pilots in the coming years.
So there..
A Gov Minister spoke of the Asia region needing 'thousands and thousands' of pilots in the coming years.
So there..
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ST is opening a new and larger training facility in singapore because they make so much money and at the moment the biggest pay to fly operator in asia.
Pilots have to pay in excess of SGD 200,000 to join their tiger airways and qatar airways cadet program.
That also is only reserve for local Singaporeans and not for foreigners regardless of whether you have the money to pay or not.
Sponsored cadets is long gone and only big airline like for example cathay pacific can afford to pay for your training. unfortunately rumours is saying that as much as 50,000 worldwide apply for that program and they take less than 100 yearly. Plus now they revert back to only taking local hong kong citizens.
The only way to collect hours is to join line training programs to collect hours since they accept foreigners. Many guys pay to fly in lion air and now most of them are flying b777 in qatar and flyscoot.
Pilots have to pay in excess of SGD 200,000 to join their tiger airways and qatar airways cadet program.
That also is only reserve for local Singaporeans and not for foreigners regardless of whether you have the money to pay or not.
Sponsored cadets is long gone and only big airline like for example cathay pacific can afford to pay for your training. unfortunately rumours is saying that as much as 50,000 worldwide apply for that program and they take less than 100 yearly. Plus now they revert back to only taking local hong kong citizens.
The only way to collect hours is to join line training programs to collect hours since they accept foreigners. Many guys pay to fly in lion air and now most of them are flying b777 in qatar and flyscoot.
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Let the airlines be desperate for pilots till they need to restart fully sponsored cadet ab initio progs. Anyone can go to a flying school and get a cpl just pay the fees. Not everyonecan get into fully sponsored cadetship. Also no guarantee you get a job with cpl. Flying is a specialized skill you cant do other jobs with a cpl. Save the cash dude
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Too many new generation kids are financially cushioned comfortably by their millionaire parents, willing to fork out a fraction of their retirement funds to take a gamble at this glamorously looking job.
Don't try to tell them otherwise, won't work. Lots of justifications and argument of why they should be given a chance.
The aviation industry has arrived at an equilibrium in supply and demand. The majors/flag carriers barely adjusted pay for inflation, nothing more and very infrequently. Too many naive wannabes are being churned and thrown into the market from everywhere around the globe.
The rule of the game is those who can't find ways of getting the aforementioned P2F* into their system, will eventually park aircraft or wind up their business, and so be it. No one, absolutely NO ONE will take the first step to increase the cost of hiring and retaining pilots.
And also, don't hold your breath that things will change. Just had more than 250 emails gunning for 5 job vacancies, which were long closed and settled. The 1500 ++ excess pilots in Malaysia alone is no exaggeration, in addition to those pouring in from Europe and Australia begging for jobs just to maintain recency.
*P2F means you have to pay for ANYTHING to become a pilot.
Do not pay for your rating or line training. A reasonable and fair arrangement is for Airline to train or type rate you, and subsequently bond you for a period of time in case you do a runner on them.
Don't try to tell them otherwise, won't work. Lots of justifications and argument of why they should be given a chance.
The aviation industry has arrived at an equilibrium in supply and demand. The majors/flag carriers barely adjusted pay for inflation, nothing more and very infrequently. Too many naive wannabes are being churned and thrown into the market from everywhere around the globe.
The rule of the game is those who can't find ways of getting the aforementioned P2F* into their system, will eventually park aircraft or wind up their business, and so be it. No one, absolutely NO ONE will take the first step to increase the cost of hiring and retaining pilots.
And also, don't hold your breath that things will change. Just had more than 250 emails gunning for 5 job vacancies, which were long closed and settled. The 1500 ++ excess pilots in Malaysia alone is no exaggeration, in addition to those pouring in from Europe and Australia begging for jobs just to maintain recency.
*P2F means you have to pay for ANYTHING to become a pilot.
Do not pay for your rating or line training. A reasonable and fair arrangement is for Airline to train or type rate you, and subsequently bond you for a period of time in case you do a runner on them.
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klmasdriver, it's easy to say don't pay for any opportunity.
Flying job and especially for those who pay for their cpl out of their own pocket is like a catch 22 situation.
Airline want to hire experience pilots with hours , cpl guys do not have any job, how on earth are they going to get the hours?
My mate who is an instructor with 3000 hours flew all the way to indonesia and were shown out of the door because they want 250 hours on type and do not even care about piston engine hours. With that i mean hours on type like 737,320 and atr.
Experience pilot who are currently flying always say that only stupid pilot pay, well do they really care? NO. what they care is if there is cheap pilots flooding the market, they will get lower t n c, Are these people wrong. yet again NO. who doesn't want a high paying job.
cpl pilots will do whatever it takes to get hours on type because they have already invested US80,000 ( some paid EURO 100k in europe ) for their cpl and there is no turning back. If they do not do something, they my as well burn the money.Are these people wrong. yet again NO.
4 years ago when lion took pay to fly pilots, those who took the opportunity were being called stupid and that no one will accept them.
Today they are flying for major airlines such as cathay pacific, flydubai, korean, Norwegian air , turkish airline, BA and qatar earning as high as US11,000 tax free.
Those who condemn them end up jobless today. so who is smart and who is stupid.
4 years ago, the price to join lion is US24,000 and price for pay to fly today has gone up as high as more than US100,000. Even then with money today there are no more opportunity to join lion or are mostly scam .
everyone is selfish and do not care about others but the reality is like this.
Flying job and especially for those who pay for their cpl out of their own pocket is like a catch 22 situation.
Airline want to hire experience pilots with hours , cpl guys do not have any job, how on earth are they going to get the hours?
My mate who is an instructor with 3000 hours flew all the way to indonesia and were shown out of the door because they want 250 hours on type and do not even care about piston engine hours. With that i mean hours on type like 737,320 and atr.
Experience pilot who are currently flying always say that only stupid pilot pay, well do they really care? NO. what they care is if there is cheap pilots flooding the market, they will get lower t n c, Are these people wrong. yet again NO. who doesn't want a high paying job.
cpl pilots will do whatever it takes to get hours on type because they have already invested US80,000 ( some paid EURO 100k in europe ) for their cpl and there is no turning back. If they do not do something, they my as well burn the money.Are these people wrong. yet again NO.
4 years ago when lion took pay to fly pilots, those who took the opportunity were being called stupid and that no one will accept them.
Today they are flying for major airlines such as cathay pacific, flydubai, korean, Norwegian air , turkish airline, BA and qatar earning as high as US11,000 tax free.
Those who condemn them end up jobless today. so who is smart and who is stupid.
4 years ago, the price to join lion is US24,000 and price for pay to fly today has gone up as high as more than US100,000. Even then with money today there are no more opportunity to join lion or are mostly scam .
everyone is selfish and do not care about others but the reality is like this.
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@lingdee
Clarify again, what exactly is your definition of "pay to fly"? Self-sponsored CPL+type rating? Paying an airline for line training? Or are both the same to you?
Clarify again, what exactly is your definition of "pay to fly"? Self-sponsored CPL+type rating? Paying an airline for line training? Or are both the same to you?
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@lingdee your mate who had 3000 hours was shown the door in indo due to the new regulations, i do feel sorry for him but do you know who to blame for that rule change? its the p2f pilots, do you know the reason ?? if you don't please don't bang on the drum about the merits of p2f job
you say pilots with jobs do not care about the new guys coming out to the industry, you are soo wrong, even when i came across here if you are willing to do the leg work a lot of people will help you, but if you rather just pay your way in lot of self respecting pilots will just walk away, maybe that's why no one is willing to help you ??
you say about the lion pilots going to other airlines, but do you know what has happened in Asia due to the emergence of p2f ??
for example before to join scoot air all you needed was the hour requirements that was listed on the website, now you are required to fund up 50% of your type rating plus a bond, all of it equates up to 80 thou sgd for a 777 but then you get re trained and rebounded as they will be getting 787 soon, the amount for which they do not disclose.
keep in mind guys who apply for this position has already got more than 1500 hours and ATP.
you yourself said the pilots who do the cpl out of their pockets are in debt, even if they get a job they need to save up for years to be able to afford the terms on this airline because people like you are just bending over and dropping your trousers. do you think that's fair ?
lingdee check your source thou about lion pilots working for soo many reputed airlines you might be slightly mislead, also a lot of mentioned airlines stopped taking lion pilots after the first few.
do you think if people didn't pay, you think airlines wont hire anyone? you don't think they will open the cadet program.
and i personally know a lot of pilots from lion air, and i don't think i have ever met someone who was happy there,they were always complaining about the t&c, the way they were treated.
but if you sell yourself can you really complain when the company ***** you over and doesn't respect you ?
you say pilots with jobs do not care about the new guys coming out to the industry, you are soo wrong, even when i came across here if you are willing to do the leg work a lot of people will help you, but if you rather just pay your way in lot of self respecting pilots will just walk away, maybe that's why no one is willing to help you ??
you say about the lion pilots going to other airlines, but do you know what has happened in Asia due to the emergence of p2f ??
for example before to join scoot air all you needed was the hour requirements that was listed on the website, now you are required to fund up 50% of your type rating plus a bond, all of it equates up to 80 thou sgd for a 777 but then you get re trained and rebounded as they will be getting 787 soon, the amount for which they do not disclose.
keep in mind guys who apply for this position has already got more than 1500 hours and ATP.
you yourself said the pilots who do the cpl out of their pockets are in debt, even if they get a job they need to save up for years to be able to afford the terms on this airline because people like you are just bending over and dropping your trousers. do you think that's fair ?
lingdee check your source thou about lion pilots working for soo many reputed airlines you might be slightly mislead, also a lot of mentioned airlines stopped taking lion pilots after the first few.
do you think if people didn't pay, you think airlines wont hire anyone? you don't think they will open the cadet program.
and i personally know a lot of pilots from lion air, and i don't think i have ever met someone who was happy there,they were always complaining about the t&c, the way they were treated.
but if you sell yourself can you really complain when the company ***** you over and doesn't respect you ?
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@lingdee your mate who had 3000 hours was shown the door in indo due to the new regulations, i do feel sorry for him but do you know who to blame for that rule change? its the p2f pilots, do you know the reason ?? if you don't please don't bang on the drum about the merits of p2f job
And instead of the 250hr rule on type, why not make it 1500hrs total time in Indonesia with 1000 command? You will get guys with relevant experience and will know the country and the culture by the time they are moving on to the jets. People are finding loop holes in that 250hr rule by going to some dodgy country and paying for 250hrs and then coming to Indonesia. The ones that do have good experience on the jets usually end up in Middle east. Maybe a few exceptions that come this way. Not really solving the problem.
people like you are just bending over and dropping your trousers. do you think that's fair ?
i personally know a lot of pilots from lion air, and i don't think i have ever met someone who was happy there,they were always complaining about the t&c, the way they were treated.
But there are exceptions like a certain Capt. M_ _ _ _ who will insult you just for being a foreigner! I don't blame him, I would feel exactly the same when people would come to my country and pay to have a job that they don't deserve and complain about it. So, when these P2f complain that they are treated like crap, guess what princess, you get what you pay for!
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The fact that this has quickly turned into ANOTHER handbag fight about p2f / Lion Air 
, should tell the original poster everything they need to know about "pilot demand" in Asia.
For non experienced, non locals, there are just about zero opportunities in Asia that don't involve YOU paying THEM a mega load of money
, should tell the original poster everything they need to know about "pilot demand" in Asia.For non experienced, non locals, there are just about zero opportunities in Asia that don't involve YOU paying THEM a mega load of money
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gtr, flyscoot is doing that to save cost and to stop pilots from running away since a lot of foreigners came to asia a couple of years back, given free rating and once they have hours, they are the first to run away making the airline a free scholarship training schools.
Also it's not the emergence of p2f in Asia, p2f started many years ago in the states and europe. Think ryan and easyjet you have the picture.
Plus lion wasn't the first to start p2f. It all started with air asia inviting many pay to fly pilots ( CAE )from europe which most after gaining hours in air asia mostly end up in vietnam air subsequently.
Anywhere around the world, the main culprit is actually the flying school and everyone have accept them for what it is today. What I meant was it's consider normal nowadays to pay loads of money to flying schools to earn the blue book and end up jobless.
If you want to make noise, all they have to say is I never point a gun at your head to do your cpl and chase your pilot dream. Many years ago, paying for own flight training is unheard of in asia and flying schools for private candidates were considered a scam. Today everyone have accepted them.
Next , paying for type rating is consider a scam too ,but ask anyone now it's normal and TRTO are happily sucking your money so you can have a cool rating but no hours on type.
Retired pilots or those pilots that got grounded due to medical or got fired are happy too, because with the good business from TRTO, they get a non flying job as a simulator instructor.
Just have to follow the trend buddy, when there were email, how many postmen lost their job, when there is internet, how many jobs became redundant. Company is there to make money and will do whatever it can to save cost.
Look at what happened to qantas, bleeding crazily and lets not talk about all the airlines in India.
Low cost are able to operate at a lower cost as they save so much on pilot training. if the legacy airlines do not do something, they my as well close shop and then there are even more lesser jobs for pilots.
it's not only lion pilots complaining, look at other thread from major airlines like cathay pacific or even emirates. They complain like nobody business and there is no such thing as a perfect company especially being an employee and stuck in the rat race. You want to be an employee, you are bound to rules and your earning is decide by other people such as management of the airline. You want to call the shots, sit behind first or business class being driven and served, you got to start your own business and be the boss.
Either you suck it up and follow the trend or you be the next richard brandson!
Also it's not the emergence of p2f in Asia, p2f started many years ago in the states and europe. Think ryan and easyjet you have the picture.
Plus lion wasn't the first to start p2f. It all started with air asia inviting many pay to fly pilots ( CAE )from europe which most after gaining hours in air asia mostly end up in vietnam air subsequently.
Anywhere around the world, the main culprit is actually the flying school and everyone have accept them for what it is today. What I meant was it's consider normal nowadays to pay loads of money to flying schools to earn the blue book and end up jobless.
If you want to make noise, all they have to say is I never point a gun at your head to do your cpl and chase your pilot dream. Many years ago, paying for own flight training is unheard of in asia and flying schools for private candidates were considered a scam. Today everyone have accepted them.
Next , paying for type rating is consider a scam too ,but ask anyone now it's normal and TRTO are happily sucking your money so you can have a cool rating but no hours on type.
Retired pilots or those pilots that got grounded due to medical or got fired are happy too, because with the good business from TRTO, they get a non flying job as a simulator instructor.
Just have to follow the trend buddy, when there were email, how many postmen lost their job, when there is internet, how many jobs became redundant. Company is there to make money and will do whatever it can to save cost.
Look at what happened to qantas, bleeding crazily and lets not talk about all the airlines in India.
Low cost are able to operate at a lower cost as they save so much on pilot training. if the legacy airlines do not do something, they my as well close shop and then there are even more lesser jobs for pilots.
it's not only lion pilots complaining, look at other thread from major airlines like cathay pacific or even emirates. They complain like nobody business and there is no such thing as a perfect company especially being an employee and stuck in the rat race. You want to be an employee, you are bound to rules and your earning is decide by other people such as management of the airline. You want to call the shots, sit behind first or business class being driven and served, you got to start your own business and be the boss.
Either you suck it up and follow the trend or you be the next richard brandson!
Last edited by lingdee; 21st Feb 2014 at 06:20.
