FAA downgrades India's aviation safety ranking

[pilotbaba]

Has anyone ever tried to get a verification of Lic from DGCA?
Now try that from FAA if you have an FAA Lic...
By the time you finish typing your next message the verification will be in your email...

Just make a visit to the DGCA office, L-1 or L-2 sections, just see how the files are lying on the floors, people's licenses, logbooks and documents are just falling out of their files...

You can see how non DGCA staff, people belonging to the private companies, have access to DGCA files, registers, stamps etc etc.. They make the entries for their company pilots themselves, put the stamps & take it to officer for signature, who just signs them, just because......??? We all know why...

Just read the items in the list that FAA has pointed out, does anyone disagree with any one of them????

There is one item, where the DGCA has not acted on an ICAO report findings from 2010.... What more to say???

Again, I am not disrespecting India, I just want that India, which has the potential to be one of the best, should become the best...

After a slap it the face, at least DGCA has cleared 3 of the 7 items on the list in a few days..

If a few slaps and some embarrassment can make DGCA even 1% better, then it is not a bad bargain...

[Capt Apache]

Very true pilotbaba.Such scale of operations can bring their own set of problems.

Watchdog: FAA has problems inspecting aircraft repairs

In previous reports in July 2003 and September 2008, the inspector general found that FAA's oversight didn't meet the agency's standards. In response, the FAA began a decade ago reviewing repair stations based on where concerns were greatest.

But in the latest report, the inspector general found the oversight "lacks rigor" and results "in inadequate and inconsistent inspection practices." One example featured a station failing to maintain a list of mechanic training for three years in a row, but the inspector accepted the promised corrective actions each time.

FAA: Air traffic controllers responsible for 7 ?catastrophic? errors

In March, federal investigators challenged the FAA’s contention that most of the increase in controller errors was the result of better data collection. The inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation said that “the increase in reported errors was linked, in part, to a rise in actual errors rather than increased reporting.”

FAA knew controllers nap, ignored fatigue issue - CNN.com

The Federal Aviation Administration is well aware that air traffic controllers have been falling asleep every week at each and every air traffic control facility in the nation for at least 30 years -- and they still are.

[Sky Dancer]

To ELAC and to the rest of my critics on this forum , let me tell you something very clearly , I have nothing against America or the FAA and quite honestly I hate any form of racial prejudice or bias of any sort. As with all Indians today I too have relatives and friends in America and I respect them and admire them as I do the country itself. Unfortunately on this forum , I see a constant insinuation of how incompetent India and its aviation personnel are and about how good the American FAA and it's system is. You not only see it here but on the other Asian forums as well. Now that is what I am fighting for.I know how the American system works and I also know how the European system works. And if you look at the statistics of the countries that come under JAA / EASA you will see that the number of incidents / accidents is far less in terms of percentage than that in USA. Now you can't stand there and tell me that Europe is not a busy airspace with very few aircraft.My point is , if there is an organisation that has to tell India or the rest of the world something , it should be them because they have a very good oversight over safety and operations. Until recently did you know that many Mid Eastern countries did NOT accept a FAA type rating and ATPL ? It is purely because of the demand for pilots that this has been waved off. Does that mean that the American aviators and bad. Certainly not , but I have serious reservations about their system because I have seen how Indians themselves have used the American system to obtain their licences. And quite honestly many of them have abused it. Case in point as an experience aviator go try and obtain a FAA ATPL and a JAA ATPL. And after you do that apply for a job anywhere in the world based on your JAA ATPL and your FAA ATPL and you will see the response you get. For those of you who have been there and done that , you know very well what I am talking about.

[itsbrokenagain]

Before you all go running off saying the USA has the most accidents blah blah, get informed first. Here is a good start: http://www.icao.int/safety/Documents...port_FINAL.pdf

Remember the FAA is conducting and Audit on the FAA for the ICAO. We seem to have a consensus here that its the FAA being heavy handed on the poor old DGCA... but not really. They are assigned and are just following their guidelines for audits.

Its all about safety, isnt that as Pilots our number one concern.

PS, I dont think the 2014 report is out yet, but according the linked documents, Europe has 1 more accident than the USA.... hmmmm

[cyrilroy21]

@Sky Dancer

As far as Middle East airlines are concerned they all ( with the exception of Saudi Arabia ) follow the JAA / EASA standards to the very core . Their exam syllabus , skill tests , medical standards etc all copy pasted from the JAA / EASA

One trouble American Pilots had when applying to the middle east airlines was passing the written because they were all JAA based .
So naturally failure rates were higher for them when compared to JAA license holders who would find the exam to be a piece of cake

Lots of former British Colonies follow the same standards outside the middle east as well Eg Singapore , Malaysia , New Zealand ( and now the Indian DGCA as well )
Thats why airlines from these countries also ask for FROZEN ATPL with MCC / JOC course

Kuwait Airways prior to the Gulf War in 1990 would not hire anyone without a British CPL / ATPL

Qatar Airways wont accept FAA CPL's with FAA ATP written for FO' positions but will accept the FAA ATP license in full

Saudi Arabia on the other hand follows the FAA regulations to the core since President Roosevelt gifted a DC 3 to start Saudia
Thats why the Saudia once upon a time would require employees to convert and obtain an FAA license prior to joining them

but I have serious reservations about their system because I have seen how Indians themselves have used the American system to obtain their licences. And quite honestly many of them have abused it.

I am curious to know what your reservations are ? And how did Indians abuse it ?

[captjns]

Cyrilroy21 claims

One trouble American Pilots had when applying to the middle east airlines was passing the written because they were all JAA based .
So naturally failure rates were higher for them when compared to JAA license holders who would find the exam to be a piece of cake

Perhaps many of the expats with EK, QR, and EY who are from the US, Canada, South America, Australia and New Zealand would disagree with your claim. Although, I'm happy for you to substantiate your claim with facts.

[cyrilroy21]

@captjns

Well I read these on PPRUNE Middle East threads on EK , QR and EY a long time ago ( read 2006 , 2007 ). I know QR is very particular about using JAA ATPL questions
Thats where I also started to read the various arguments of FAA vs JAA training differences and concepts
But seeing how there are plenty of Americans , Canadians etc at all these airlines and the various roadshows conducted by the ME carriers i figured the written exam is not exactly a barrier

Either airlines included FAA , TC , CASA questions to get the right pilots
OR
The Pilots sat and studied the various JAA ATPL questions banks

I am not sure how Australia is when compared to JAA but I know for sure that New Zealand is very similar to JAA theoretical training

There were a few posts by American Pilots asking for JAA material and question banks so that they could prepare for the exams
Hence the conclusion

P.S : No offense meant

[itsbrokenagain]

( and now the Indian DGCA as well )

Joking right?

I am a very much in the know of JAA and EASA(ie a pretty certificate on the wall saying I am the post holder of a EASA school) from 1999 to date and the Indian system is not even a tiny bit close to the EASA exams... sorry,,, and yes I do visit the DGCA offices more than I ever should and know the system.

[cyrilroy21]

@itsbrokenagain

I should have been more specific

What I meant to say was the Indian DGCA now follows the JAA/EASA syllabus for the theoretical exams for PPL , CPL and ATPL since June 2011 . They just copy pasted everything from there word for word .
They use the same question banks

The only difference being Indian Climatology for MET and obviously Indian Air Law

They actually started copying EASA since April 2010 . They only bothered to tell everyone in June 2011 after an " Expert Committee " decided the the present published syllabus was very vague ( they copy pasted that from ICAO Annex 1 )

Everyone found out the hard way when they appeared for the Air Regs exam and was asked Human Performance questions eg:
- calculate the amount of blood pumped by the Human Heart in 1 minute ( or something similar )

[Wannabe Flyer]

http://dgca.nic.in/public_notice/PN-FAA.pdf

After reading the above link from purely a SLF point of view i feel slightly more comfortable due to the following

1) Singles out a private aviation company as well as AI for the bulk of the issues. I do not fly these airlines.....

2) Most of the issues seem to lie around certification and validation of many of the aircrew of these aircraft including re training. This is a bit of a concern but considering most airlines seem to be now moving to using single type craft in their fleet it should be easy to resolve very quickly. CRJ and 747 are again AI specific.

I did not see safety violations of ATC and aerodromes as well as on quality of maintenance of aircraft as well as actual maintainece violations on aircraft or aerodromes. Have not flow to Zimbabwe or Botswana to know if what is contained in this link to be be deemed so serious that to give visions of falling aircraft, crappy equipment and general fear in the traveling public including US airlines to immediately revoke the bi laterals.

My opinion a more graded system like one in a facility audit with points and weight age much like a crisil business rating should be the benchmark for the FAA to ensure a more accurate picture is being pot rayed. At the moment it seems to be very subjective and open ended, but then I am only going on what I am seeing on this link.

At least as a passenger on a flight next few hours I am feeling more comfortable...

On a separate note I am sure FAA gave ample opportunities for them to fix these issues and finally had enough.....so cannot blame them

[Wannabe Flyer]

Is this a repercussion from the political class?

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