Honest question of race/ethnicity
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minneaplois, MN
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Honest question of race/ethnicity
Recently, while speaking with a former colleague, I expressed a desire and interest to apply to Korean, Emirates, Air China, Asiana, and China Southern airlines. He genuinely stated it would be rather difficult for me do to my race (Black). It's his belief a black male gaining employment with most Asian and Middle Eastern carriers would be an nearly insurmountable hill to climb. Currently I fly the 777F (previously 747-200F) and have over 7,000 total time with over 2,700 Turbine PIC. All but 400 hrs. is in transport category jets.
This question isn't intended to start a discussion on race. I'm simply looking for an honest response and some advice (my gorgeous wife is a red head as are our 2 beautiful kids).
Thanks for the honest reply/replies.
This question isn't intended to start a discussion on race. I'm simply looking for an honest response and some advice (my gorgeous wife is a red head as are our 2 beautiful kids).
Thanks for the honest reply/replies.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: laptop city
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
Regarding emirates and the middle eastern airlines i know several african pilots
flying for them. So one would think it is not really the case.
However for the asian airlines ( china hongkong japan) i have been long asking the same question . hopefully this thread will help clear it.
mamad
Regarding emirates and the middle eastern airlines i know several african pilots
flying for them. So one would think it is not really the case.
However for the asian airlines ( china hongkong japan) i have been long asking the same question . hopefully this thread will help clear it.
mamad
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't ever worry about ethnicity being a barrier in the Middle East, they are far more advanced than that. As for parts of Asia; Singapore and Thai still think females are unable to fly...
Any airline that discriminates based on race/age/sex should be publicly named and shamed.
Any airline that discriminates based on race/age/sex should be publicly named and shamed.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
A black, British friend of mine applied for a command position with Korean Air, all initial feedback from the agency was positive, he sent his logbooks etc for assessment, and got invited out to Korea to do the sim check. He sent his passport (with his photo in obviously) to arrange the visa and ticket, and they suddenly realized - he got a curt email that the position was no longer available, and they cut off all further contact with him when he enquired as to why not 
Middle East airlines have plenty of other problems, but race discrimination is not one of them
Middle East airlines have plenty of other problems, but race discrimination is not one of them
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An aside - I know of one younger Japanese Captain (I think less than 1,000 hours PIC TT maybe 6000 jet) who is now F/O with Emirates for the last 2 years or so.
Years ago the THOUGHT of a Japanese leaving Japan was unthinkable.
On the flip side Skymark in Japan cleared (courtesy of JCAB) their first Female Captain about 6 months ago - from Korea - with another in the system I believe (but could be wrong...could be more).
Much was made a couple of years ago when JAL (through subsidiary JEX) cleared their first lady Captain - ceremony, news reports etc.
Mr Dylan was right - the times are indeed changing, whether through desire or necessity probably a moot question.
Regards Japan only - it would be interesting if NCA or Air Japan have African/Afro Americans in their employ as both have either international basings or no residency for expats.
Interesting question - apologies if perceived as a thread drift.
Years ago the THOUGHT of a Japanese leaving Japan was unthinkable.
On the flip side Skymark in Japan cleared (courtesy of JCAB) their first Female Captain about 6 months ago - from Korea - with another in the system I believe (but could be wrong...could be more).
Much was made a couple of years ago when JAL (through subsidiary JEX) cleared their first lady Captain - ceremony, news reports etc.
Mr Dylan was right - the times are indeed changing, whether through desire or necessity probably a moot question.
Regards Japan only - it would be interesting if NCA or Air Japan have African/Afro Americans in their employ as both have either international basings or no residency for expats.
Interesting question - apologies if perceived as a thread drift.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UTC +8
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Asia has a long way to go in labor laws and equal employment opportunities. Female cabin crews typically are turfed by age-40; labor unions are weak and mostly unheard of; real job seniority doesn't exist; employment contracts are worthless; foreigners have no rights. If you can get on, it's just for the money, because you will always be an outsider. 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regards Japan only - it would be interesting if NCA or Air Japan have African/Afro Americans in their employ as both have either international basings or no residency for expats.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shortspilot......been all over the world, seen black/white/yellow (okok no green yet) pilots from every imaginable nationality...here where I fly in the Arabian Gulf, and Asia as well...seems to make no difference at all....
and if you're flying the Shorts better yet!!
and if you're flying the Shorts better yet!!
Last edited by ironbutt57; 1st Aug 2013 at 09:15.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: out of a suitcase
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VNA does indeed hire black pilots. They recruit through agencies located in countries where it would be illegal to discriminate, and to their credit the Viets do not seen inclined to discriminate on that basis, either.
Hard to quantify, but going through the right agency might well be an aid in some cases, Shorts.
Hard to quantify, but going through the right agency might well be an aid in some cases, Shorts.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: china
Age: 61
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it might be more correct to say the Viets don't discriminate - they hate all foreigners equally.
I did not see any black expats in China. I do know they discriminate by nationality but I don't think race. there are a few female expat Captains in China as well.
I think no worries about race.
I did not see any black expats in China. I do know they discriminate by nationality but I don't think race. there are a few female expat Captains in China as well.
I think no worries about race.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SINGAPORE
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the far east as a rule, are extremely conscious of skin colour. they look down on all black people as a step away from primates. their sole preoccupation is to try and whiten their skin, or prevent sunburn. a lot of this is hidden and not apparent due to language differences.
this too holds for many segments of sub-continental society.
all these societies also have a tendency to fawn and drop their knickers, when a white man walks in, without exception, and at all levels.
this too holds for many segments of sub-continental society.
all these societies also have a tendency to fawn and drop their knickers, when a white man walks in, without exception, and at all levels.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arse end of the world
Age: 68
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rdr...you are generalizing and just too patronizing. When I flew in KAL some years ago I met an Ethiopean guy ex-SQ who told me that the SEAsian Chinese were the most accepting of him whereas the Indians shunned him while the white blokes generally ignored him.
In Korea, the Koreans generally have come around accepting dark skinned people ( intermarriage with dark skinned people is still not well accepted ) as this Ethiopean guy did not suffer from any overt discrimination. He mentioned that he was happy that a SEA Chinese chap was most helpful when he needed assistance in some matters. He found yours truly to be one of the few Caucasian he counted as friends even though he lived in the big US of A!
In Korea, the Koreans generally have come around accepting dark skinned people ( intermarriage with dark skinned people is still not well accepted ) as this Ethiopean guy did not suffer from any overt discrimination. He mentioned that he was happy that a SEA Chinese chap was most helpful when he needed assistance in some matters. He found yours truly to be one of the few Caucasian he counted as friends even though he lived in the big US of A!
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Jeddah
Age: 51
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RDR's right.
I completely agree with RDR in his assessment of South East Asian Airline's perception of African-American or people of African ethnicity.
I knew a black guy, well, Aruban to be correct, he applied with an outfit in Indonesia in the good ol days. Back then, email or skype hadn't evolved to what it is now(there was no skype in those days, we had something called 'hotmail'). He was called in, the moment they saw him, the DFO and HR politely , refused on account of all slots being filled.
I completely agree with RDR, color is a per-requisite.
BTW the year i speak above was 1996.
I knew a black guy, well, Aruban to be correct, he applied with an outfit in Indonesia in the good ol days. Back then, email or skype hadn't evolved to what it is now(there was no skype in those days, we had something called 'hotmail'). He was called in, the moment they saw him, the DFO and HR politely , refused on account of all slots being filled.
I completely agree with RDR, color is a per-requisite.
BTW the year i speak above was 1996.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SouthEastAsia
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@retard : it was the years of darkness on Indonesia..where riots started....chinese were not welcome...Years of stupidity I would say..
2010-ish onward was so much diferent. I know at least 5 black carribean pilots in Air Asia Indonesia..some in Sriwijaya...and a lot of chinese..
But hey, the question was not involved Indonesia..I simply replied what retard3x wrote...
2010-ish onward was so much diferent. I know at least 5 black carribean pilots in Air Asia Indonesia..some in Sriwijaya...and a lot of chinese..
But hey, the question was not involved Indonesia..I simply replied what retard3x wrote...
Some black pilots flying with the LoCosts in Singapore, not too sure about SIA but I know they won't hire women in mainline though there are a few in Silk Air.
You may be looked down on for being a foreigner more than for being black. Some of the Asian races think they are well above everyone else on the planet. In Thailand dark skin is a sign of being low class as you are assumed to work outside in the fields or on a construction site doing manual labour instead of in an office.
With more people traveling and incomes rising minds are opening up. When I take a city train in Bangkok I'm rarely the only white person in the carriage.
It's worth trying everywhere, you may be the first.
You may be looked down on for being a foreigner more than for being black. Some of the Asian races think they are well above everyone else on the planet. In Thailand dark skin is a sign of being low class as you are assumed to work outside in the fields or on a construction site doing manual labour instead of in an office.
With more people traveling and incomes rising minds are opening up. When I take a city train in Bangkok I'm rarely the only white person in the carriage.
It's worth trying everywhere, you may be the first.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: china
Age: 61
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with most of what has been said. At the end of the day, expats are just seat warmers till the locals can get spun up. Some cultures are more accepting than others of outsiders.
FWIW, despite a lot of the bad stuff about flying in China, the chinese are extremely welcoming to foreigners.
FWIW, despite a lot of the bad stuff about flying in China, the chinese are extremely welcoming to foreigners.
The last flight I took on the middle eastern airline which cannot be named had two black pilots pilots waiting in the departure lounge to take over the aircraft, Captain looked American and the F/O looked Jamaican.
FWIW South African Airways would take on any foreign black pilot over a white male local.
FWIW South African Airways would take on any foreign black pilot over a white male local.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Shower house of Africa
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Metro,
South African Airways does not hire foreign nationals. Race isn't even a factor, if you are not South African then you are not legible.
Metroman...... FYI South African Airways has a pilot group made up of over 80% white males. (All South African nationals)
South African Airways does not hire foreign nationals. Race isn't even a factor, if you are not South African then you are not legible.
Metroman...... FYI South African Airways has a pilot group made up of over 80% white males. (All South African nationals)
Last edited by Ghost_Rider737; 2nd Aug 2013 at 10:12.