Indonesia p2F for low timer is back!!!!
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WRT to the Lion Air water landing, what I'm still baffled about is why the PF in the RHS handed over to the captain to do the Go Around and doing this below the MDH?
Is there any evidence suggesting a positive exchange of controls upon captain's request?? CRM
Regardless I just don't think there's enough time to do that when ur so dangerously low. I would've hit the TO/GA first then get back in the soup, clean up and let him shoot another approach if that is what he intends to. It's sad that going around is still frowned upon in many companies. Is the extra fuel burn worth the lives of 150+ people?? Absolutely!!!!
Is there any evidence suggesting a positive exchange of controls upon captain's request?? CRM
Regardless I just don't think there's enough time to do that when ur so dangerously low. I would've hit the TO/GA first then get back in the soup, clean up and let him shoot another approach if that is what he intends to. It's sad that going around is still frowned upon in many companies. Is the extra fuel burn worth the lives of 150+ people?? Absolutely!!!!
Last edited by aimtofly; 29th Jun 2013 at 15:09.
jobs after P2F
Lingdee,
Your mates who got into Scoot and whatever are very lucky. I was talking to Lion guys yesterday and they were worried because they have been sending out CV's like crazy but no one seems to be hiring. You have to remember that having 500 hours typed and TT of 2000 hours doesn't make a job a certainty.
I no longer fly jumpers nor do any of my friends. That was just an example that there are still entry level jobs around. We are all on mutli TP's now but only one of us has Multi TP command. I didn't make that clear in my post.
Have you actually left India and knocked on any doors? Out of the 6000 pilots in India without a job how do you make your application stand out? You say that you have sent CV's all around the world with no reply. Did you really expect one?
As for it being easy before and hard now to get a job you can just look back on posts on Prune over the years to see the same old rubbish being told. It always seems to come up that "a few years ago it was easier cause there were more jobs then" This may be true when the expansion plans of easy and Ryan were going full steam ahead but what about before then? The industry goes in cycles and mostly we are in the non hiring part of the cycle. I do believe that once a upon a time in the UK you had to have 700TT to get a CPL. What would all you whiners have done back then?
An ex 777 driver at Korean told me it took 15 years for him to get into a F27 from pistons. Didn't touch a jet til he was 40 and didn't make skipper til almost 50. 30 years to make jet Captain and all you guys on here making noise about it being hard. It is not even close to being like that now and I think it may have got easier, not harder.
Your mates who got into Scoot and whatever are very lucky. I was talking to Lion guys yesterday and they were worried because they have been sending out CV's like crazy but no one seems to be hiring. You have to remember that having 500 hours typed and TT of 2000 hours doesn't make a job a certainty.
I no longer fly jumpers nor do any of my friends. That was just an example that there are still entry level jobs around. We are all on mutli TP's now but only one of us has Multi TP command. I didn't make that clear in my post.
Have you actually left India and knocked on any doors? Out of the 6000 pilots in India without a job how do you make your application stand out? You say that you have sent CV's all around the world with no reply. Did you really expect one?
As for it being easy before and hard now to get a job you can just look back on posts on Prune over the years to see the same old rubbish being told. It always seems to come up that "a few years ago it was easier cause there were more jobs then" This may be true when the expansion plans of easy and Ryan were going full steam ahead but what about before then? The industry goes in cycles and mostly we are in the non hiring part of the cycle. I do believe that once a upon a time in the UK you had to have 700TT to get a CPL. What would all you whiners have done back then?
An ex 777 driver at Korean told me it took 15 years for him to get into a F27 from pistons. Didn't touch a jet til he was 40 and didn't make skipper til almost 50. 30 years to make jet Captain and all you guys on here making noise about it being hard. It is not even close to being like that now and I think it may have got easier, not harder.
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Better description. Pay to Fly Schemes is one where a pilot pays for their type rating, and a predetermined number of hours of right seat time pulling the gear and moving the flap lever.
The Pay to Fly scheme is one that enables spoiled children to lower the bar as far a quality of and safety of operations of air commerce. Low cost carriers in Indonesia, which are black listed from US and EU airspace, is where one can find most of these schemes.
Management of respected carriers around the world are aware of P2F schemes. The management realize there are and abundant of quality of pilots, who have chosen not to take the P2F route, available for employment. They also know that these are quality pilots who earned their way into the cockpit. They did not use their money, or sphere of influence to gain access to the cockpit. That said, until such time the pool of qualified pilots have dried up, the P2Fers will be left in the deep end to drown... as it should be.
Oh well... such as life.
The Pay to Fly scheme is one that enables spoiled children to lower the bar as far a quality of and safety of operations of air commerce. Low cost carriers in Indonesia, which are black listed from US and EU airspace, is where one can find most of these schemes.
Management of respected carriers around the world are aware of P2F schemes. The management realize there are and abundant of quality of pilots, who have chosen not to take the P2F route, available for employment. They also know that these are quality pilots who earned their way into the cockpit. They did not use their money, or sphere of influence to gain access to the cockpit. That said, until such time the pool of qualified pilots have dried up, the P2Fers will be left in the deep end to drown... as it should be.
Oh well... such as life.
It's actually more like 120k and it received quite a bit of flak in the Australian aviation community. The reason the cost was so high was because of the flying school that was being used which charges almost $500/hr for a C-172.
Also, there are still direct entry FO positions in these airlines which don't require you to pay anything, but you need 500 multi command to apply.
Also, there are still direct entry FO positions in these airlines which don't require you to pay anything, but you need 500 multi command to apply.
You will find that most airlines in Australia and New Zealand require a complete ATPL before you join. None of this 500 hours on type rules like it is in Europe and Asia.
When you join an Airline like Jetstar, Virgin, Cobham, Qantas etc or any regional airline like Qantaslink, Virgin Aus Regional, Skippers, air north etc, you dont pay for your type rating, but you are bonded for 3 years, so lets say if you decide to leave before the 3 years is up, you have to pay the remainder of your type rating. But if you stay for the 3 years, the type rating is completely free. Even the pilots get paid while doing the ground school too.
Last edited by pull-up-terrain; 3rd Aug 2013 at 00:38.
Last time I checked Virgin and Jetstar most certainly charged you for a type rating. The only good thing was you could pay it back by salary deduction over 3 years. I'm sure they bonded you on top of this
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Bonding is not unreasonable. From the Airline's perspective free type ratings can get rather costly when chaps move on to bigger and better with only 6 months of service.
Say no to P2Fers amongst our ranks
Say no to P2Fers amongst our ranks
Last edited by captjns; 3rd Aug 2013 at 13:04.
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The purpose of bonding is so the pilot does not pay for his/her type rating. It is to provide the airline that paid for the type rating a remedy to collect on an amount paid should they leave within a certain period of time after the completion of training.
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Love PanAm just does not get the picture.
Another chap wanting to be part of the problem rather than the solution
Hi guys,
What is the latest on FO hiring at Lion Air?
Still need to pay 50,000 USD to get a seat?
I might do it as nobody hires me and I am getting desperate to get a job.
Thnkx
What is the latest on FO hiring at Lion Air?
Still need to pay 50,000 USD to get a seat?
I might do it as nobody hires me and I am getting desperate to get a job.
Thnkx
Last edited by captjns; 4th Aug 2013 at 06:25.
I have posted on here before as have many others that P2F in Indonesia is pretty much dead. The requirement to have 250 hours on type to secure a job is being enforced.
Unless you live and work here already and you posses and Indonesian licence (plus know the right people and be prepared to give some "gifts") there is pretty much zero chance of you getting a job here if you don't have 250 on type. P2F or not.
Unless you live and work here already and you posses and Indonesian licence (plus know the right people and be prepared to give some "gifts") there is pretty much zero chance of you getting a job here if you don't have 250 on type. P2F or not.
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@love panam i dont know why you want to go down the p2f road, but here is the answer you were looking for i guess.
the p2f is not back, the Indonesian govt has 250 hour rule still in place, so unless you have 250 hours on type you cant work in Indonesia.
I AGREE KIDS BUY A JOB.
i presume you are from America? if i am wrong i do apologize i am just going buy your id name, if that's the case there are loads of cargo jobs available esp flying the atr might be worth a look .
But if you rather just shell out 50 grand then fly for free for another 6 months and whoring out our profession should just apply to eagle jet or try sri lanka heard that's the new p2f heaven
the p2f is not back, the Indonesian govt has 250 hour rule still in place, so unless you have 250 hours on type you cant work in Indonesia.
I AGREE KIDS BUY A JOB.
i presume you are from America? if i am wrong i do apologize i am just going buy your id name, if that's the case there are loads of cargo jobs available esp flying the atr might be worth a look .
But if you rather just shell out 50 grand then fly for free for another 6 months and whoring out our profession should just apply to eagle jet or try sri lanka heard that's the new p2f heaven
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Love Pan Am is of the opinion that...
Well at least Pan Am, your firend your friend can look himself in the mirror and say that he's acquiring experience the honest way
. He certainly will garner a heck of a lot more respect than those cheats who would rather short cut the system as P2Fers.
Remember P2Fers are none too welcome at the adults table during meal time.
P2Fers can sit in the corner at the kiddie table with their bibs and sup on pab.
Cargo at night! no thanks, my friend is doing it and he hates it. No shiny uniform and no cute flight attendants, no glamour
. He certainly will garner a heck of a lot more respect than those cheats who would rather short cut the system as P2Fers.Remember P2Fers are none too welcome at the adults table during meal time
.P2Fers can sit in the corner at the kiddie table with their bibs and sup on pab.
Last edited by captjns; 13th Aug 2013 at 10:05.