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777 expat pilots in VNA

Old 7th Nov 2012, 17:10
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777 expat pilots in VNA

Hello, does anyone have news about the expats pilots on the 777 fleet in Vietnam Airline ? Rumor says all expats will be out ?

It seems strange that no one from Viet Nam has posted anything about this big " staff rearrangement". No censure from VN authorities I hope.

What happens to those who are not ugraded, moved over Airbus, how does the VNA terminate unfinished contracts, bonus, tax issues, which airline are they flying for now, etc etc ?

Many thanks for any info.
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Old 8th Nov 2012, 04:54
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They are very busy with moving local cadets into the A320 and ATR72 fleets and replacing / upgrading expat F/O's on those fleets.

Cadets won't be going on the widebody (except a very small number of cruise pilots for the 777) so I think the 330 and 777 fleets will be pretty stable for the foreseeable. In fact I know some expat A320 F/O's who don't yet have the hours for command, were offered 777 F/O positions (TR at own expense) only a few months ago.

Expat F/O's will be finished here within 18 months or so, but expat captains will be around for a long time yet.
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Old 8th Nov 2012, 06:03
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Thanks Luke. Not a massive lay off in the 777 fleet then ! I thought they are introducing the cadet in 777 and not the Airbus.
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Old 8th Nov 2012, 16:32
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No more expat F/O's on A320 in the future ?
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Old 8th Nov 2012, 18:05
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All the developing countries will get rid of expats as soon as they have enough locals to fly. Can you estimate how close or how far is the "future" of expat in VNA ?
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Old 5th Dec 2012, 21:23
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Thumbs down Veitnam 777 Pilots

The attitude towards expats has hardened considerably over the last year or so, many of the pilots contracts are renewed in March 2013 so we will see what happens.

The saving grace for expats at the moment is that they are desperately short on the 777 type and are not replacing pilots departing because of natural attrition such as retirement or resignation.

The down side is that they are being worked to death literally! there is no real monthly limit as they can discount heavy crew hours by 50%; So 130 hours ++ per month is normal and also a killer.

Recently an expat TRE of long standing was downgraded and penalized severely because he told a known incompetent local captain to go around because he was unstable. It has become a time on all fleets where keeping your head down has become the order of the day. Poke it up and they will most certainly knock a hole in at the very least.

Corruption is endemic there as in much of that region and the Airline appears to be hemorrhaging from the butt financially, they are cutting any cost they can and that includes expensive expats. Unfortunately the good days are at least on hold and probably long gone. The management are desperate to blame anybody or anything for the poor performance of the Airline but in reality it is simply not a very well run airline compared to the cut throat competition it now has to live with in both their international and domestic operations.
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Old 6th Dec 2012, 03:12
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Sounds like nothing has changed then in the many years since I was there.

Was very much a Hanoi Old Boys flying club then and sounds as though it still is. Blame the foreigner for their own incompetence.

VNA must be getting murdered by the likes of Korean and Cathay on routes to the US, and the Middle East Airlines on routes to Europe. The Asian Low cost carriers sense easy meat and nibble away on their short haul. VNA's domestic monopoly with Government forced low priced tickets will not save them.

What they need is a Non-Vietnamese CEO , who has International experience and the Governments power to hire/fire ANYONE in the Airline.

Otherwise the huge amount of robbing/scamming/fraud/corruption going on at VNA will continue and they will just bleed into insignificance in the region.

Shame, as they could be strong if they got their act in order, and in the meantime, continue to be subsidized by some of the poorest people in Asia.
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 06:58
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What do you mean "ran away" ? From unfair racist hefty penalties ?

Did the 11 Cpt on 320 resign or have they been harrassed or intimidated till they have to abandon ?

Is it related to the tax issues, or were they blamed of invented crimes ?

Please, folks from VN, shed a light on PPRuNe so we are better informed. Are you censured ? This is very disquieting.
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 17:02
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the guys leaving on the 777, were 4 thais and one oz guy,
the thais were sussing out their opportunities, and left as things did not work out their way.
however they would have been stuck on the 777 as first officers for
a long time, money still not to bad, in the 9K area, but missing out on
a command position anywhere else in asia.
in addition to that VN is cash-hungry, so if you decide to upgrade for capt,
only 320 positions! you have to put up with 20K for type rating, 2to 3 months no pay plus a bond of $30k over 5 years. ......think!!
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 17:27
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Is it RISHWORTH ? Take note that agencies can also be abused and cheated by those 1/3 world airline authorities.

I guess the VNA authorities make the expats break their contract before term, to avoid doing it themselves.

Zia, I have pmed you.
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 18:33
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rishworth, parc, dpi.... they all try to get their share in being your contractor.

it is not clear yet what percentage of your salary they really get for sending

you there, but for sure there is a lot of kick-back money floating around!
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 18:35
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Hi Bay Bong some answers to the above received on SKYPE from the heavies:
apparently over 3000FPM at 2500 on the ILS & way out of shape xxxxx the Tasmanian guy who is a ChK Cpt ordered a go-around from the Jumpseat twice--Cpt finally pushed the power up but not Toga so it just accelerates toward the ground---much discussion between the crews flying & the extra crew-finaly got the thing going around-did not follow ATC hdg as still locked on the LOC etc etc xxxxx has been stood down-Cpt is being demoted & F/O suspended for 3 months??????? xxxx now talking to RAL & the Company
[12/17/2012 7:05:10 AM] : the 3rd fu-ck up from this Cpt in under a year?
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 23:18
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'' the 3rd fu-ck up from this Cpt in under a year? ''

What are the other 2 fu-ck ups? Are there more exciting approaches than these one you described?
I heard about an interesting SID they did once from London Gatwick. The crew (all of them local talents,2 on the controls and 2 on the jump seats) had set on the MCP panel 1000 ft altitude. After take off when the autopilot was engaged over 1000 ft the aircraft 'surprisingly' started diving to level-off at 1000 ft. The crew disengaged autopilot thinking that there is something wrong. Same time when ATC was talking to them, they heard 'Dont sink,dont sink ! '
Was it the same captain who did that exciting approach you are talking about?
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 11:32
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Yes!------
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 17:57
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Many on a daily basis.

And dont forget to mention Figjam,Baked Beans and your friend from Singapore Sim days Mr Nghia.

Last edited by EX BLUE STORK; 19th Dec 2012 at 18:42.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 19:01
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Yes,I heard of this. Sometimes that makes me wonder about this credibility of 'black list' in Europe. Certain airlines from other countries with 'similar or better' standards cannot even dream of entering the European airspace.
Aviation is a strange world .
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 08:43
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Air India was threatened with FAA Category 2. Then AI goes from a MOU with Boeing for a very large 777 & 787 order to an agreed deal and hey presto the threat is removed.

ClearedtoCrash, that's how it works - unfortunately, sadly & pathetically.

The regulators see only what they wish & act if politically (& financially) approved.
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Old 24th Dec 2012, 23:18
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Easy to pay off american politicians....easily the most corrupt country in the world.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 16:34
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While I agree that US politicians are easily bought and paid for, I am sure you were just using a bit of hyperbole to illustrate your point about them being the most corrupt in the world, but just in case you really believe what you stated:

Easy to pay off american politicians....easily the most corrupt country in the world.
here is the list of the 25 most corrupt governments on our little planet, along with the reference tag. Afghanistan is most corrupt at number 1, New Zealand is least corrupt at 181, US is at 163. Go to the link to see all 181.

1 Afghanistan
2 North Korea
3 Somalia
4 Sudan
5 Myanmar
6 Turkmenistan
7 Uzbekistan
8 Iraq
9 Angola
10 Burundi
11 Democratic Republic of the Congo
12 Chad
13 Haiti
14 Venezuela
15 Cambodia
16 Guinea
17 Kyrgyzstan
18 Yemen
19 Equatorial Guinea
20 Zimbabwe
21 Libya
22 Central African Republic
23 Republic of the Congo
24 Ivory Coast
25 Guinea-Bissau

Corruption Perceptions Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by Hogger60; 25th Dec 2012 at 16:36.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 20:53
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did I touch a nerve?

You seem offended? I don't need wikipedia to know the u.S. is one F'ed up nation.

Last edited by yellowcontrails; 25th Dec 2012 at 20:53.
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