Air Deccan Part II
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He sure does keep on trying...
Word is that is in 500 Cr debt. Deccan 360 failed miserably, Only the charter business is doing good.
Anyways.. sure hope this brings us some good news.
Word is that is in 500 Cr debt. Deccan 360 failed miserably, Only the charter business is doing good.
Anyways.. sure hope this brings us some good news.
Join Date: Dec 2010
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well we do criticize about his smelly food and uncomfortable seats, but he is the person to revolutionize Indian aviation, amist all corruption and mainly dgca he made it to deliver a low fare airline, keep in mind that even Tata failed several times, and I hate mallya for 1 buyig deccan and 2 ruining it, i dnt knw i have heard so much of his business stratergies, but proves to be a jerk to me by his actions, why not continue deccan as a low fare airline under the kingfisher banner?
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1. It is not possible to run a low cost model along with a full fare model together under the same management especially in a country like India it will lead to conflict of interest at intra operational level.
2. Kingfisher's biggest blow was the decision to buy Air Deccan. By doing so, they violated their business plan. VJM was only thinking of one aspect, going international instead of survival. This move only made the wound bigger !!
3. Air Deccan was started with a good motive but was run with poor economics. Re1 fare is a disaster. Even an auto rickshaw cannot operate in a rupee but this guy wanted to run an airline!! (was he doped ??).
4. Being a pioneer in the industry, Air Deccan, had an opportunity to make it big but they lost it.
5. Gopi might be a good man but doesnt mean he can run an airline !!
Look at Indigo. I really dont like their flight ops guys. But their Marketing and Planning Team are Bloody Brilliant !!
2. Kingfisher's biggest blow was the decision to buy Air Deccan. By doing so, they violated their business plan. VJM was only thinking of one aspect, going international instead of survival. This move only made the wound bigger !!
3. Air Deccan was started with a good motive but was run with poor economics. Re1 fare is a disaster. Even an auto rickshaw cannot operate in a rupee but this guy wanted to run an airline!! (was he doped ??).
4. Being a pioneer in the industry, Air Deccan, had an opportunity to make it big but they lost it.
5. Gopi might be a good man but doesnt mean he can run an airline !!
Look at Indigo. I really dont like their flight ops guys. But their Marketing and Planning Team are Bloody Brilliant !!
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GE90-115B:
Agree 100% on all points. You could not have been more precise.
Air Deccan used the branding and valuation game of the last decade to build what is essentially a hollow model and sell off. IF VJM had let it be, Gopi would have spiraled downwards in flames in a year or so (no pun intended)
FYI: Vishwas: IMHO Gopi is the one to destroy Indian aviation by bringing in a non sustainable model and creating a downward spiral.
If you could please substantiate when and where TATA failed to run an airline successfully in India or for that attempt even launch one? Last I checked AI which was the Maharaja of the sky's once upon a time was run by the Tata family. His Grand Uncle is the pioneer of Aviation in India not gopi, and once AI was nationalized we all know the story. If anything he has attempted to enter aviation by bidding for airports or with a tie up with SQ which was shot down for political reasons and had nothing to do with their abilities to launch or run an airline.
As a foot note "Captain Gopinath" had no prior aviation background except rotary wing charters. Please do check Ratan Tata aviation background including the licenses he holds personally. He could and still can fly circles around Gopi!!
Agree 100% on all points. You could not have been more precise.
Air Deccan used the branding and valuation game of the last decade to build what is essentially a hollow model and sell off. IF VJM had let it be, Gopi would have spiraled downwards in flames in a year or so (no pun intended)
FYI: Vishwas: IMHO Gopi is the one to destroy Indian aviation by bringing in a non sustainable model and creating a downward spiral.
If you could please substantiate when and where TATA failed to run an airline successfully in India or for that attempt even launch one? Last I checked AI which was the Maharaja of the sky's once upon a time was run by the Tata family. His Grand Uncle is the pioneer of Aviation in India not gopi, and once AI was nationalized we all know the story. If anything he has attempted to enter aviation by bidding for airports or with a tie up with SQ which was shot down for political reasons and had nothing to do with their abilities to launch or run an airline.
As a foot note "Captain Gopinath" had no prior aviation background except rotary wing charters. Please do check Ratan Tata aviation background including the licenses he holds personally. He could and still can fly circles around Gopi!!
Last edited by Wannabe Flyer; 20th Jun 2012 at 10:58.
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i knw air india was run by tatas once, but since air india was nationalised, tata has tried thrice to start an airline again but did not go right, infact the last attempt was last year where ratan tata agreed he cannot start an airline amist this corruption where a huge capital will just be paid as bribe. As long as gopi and mallya go, if u believe deccan would have closed well and good, but now mallya buying deccan and closing kingfisher is a greater loss. loss of two airlines
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but since air india was nationalised, tata has tried thrice to start an airline again but did not go right
I have searched and searched and cannot find any reference to this except for the attempt with SQ way back in the 1990's when private airlines were first allowed. IN order to keep Tata out who was going to go to it with SQ the then aviation minister changed the FDI rules not permitting international airlines to invest under FDI but allowing FDI from other sources. The moment the rule was changed SQ and TATA decided not to go ahead. at that time the only other big player who had FDI from non aviation sources was 9W.
I am unable to find any other attempt besides comments he has made as to why he did not want to enter aviation and this can hardly be termed as an attempt to enter aviation. He has never ever even applied for a license for a group company besides the private charter business of his in the entire 17 years of privatized aviation in India. Niether has he looked at acquiring an ailing company or buying equity in a carrier.
The most profitable years for Indian aviation was in the period when Modi Luft and East West and the likes shut down and left few quality players around. During this phase airfares were still lower on an average than the 1980's. Today also the domestic airfares are to a great extent lower / similar or unchanged from 1998. In 1998 with advance booking one could get DEL - BOM - DEL for about 8500 and today it is showing at 9500. Not too bad considering all other aspects I say. In fact a IATA report today has shown that airfares in India compared to 5 other countries (US, UK, AUstralia, China and Russia) are actually lower in spite of costs being higher. Gopi shutting down would have removed the irrational pricing and IT might have survived. Instead VM ego got in the way and he is also spiraling down.
Today the traveller is so spoiled because of the Rs 1 dharma and still quotes it and moans about the fares, but if you ever flew Delhi - CCU - Delhi in 1987 on IC it cost a princely sum
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well yea i agree with u i am not able to get any latest info abt tata, i saw this last year in a news channel along with his interview and he mentinig shat i wrote previoisly, but it is said ge offered 15cr bribe fr the lic. but jet looking to take monopoly and to.avoid a tough competitor paid 20cr bribe, and fdi was not approved fr tata, yes i agree the times of modiluft might have changed the whole picture of aviation, educate me now im in a fix, is fdi a last resort to sustain the airlines or u feel fdi is profitable any time to the country?
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FDI will not change the face of our aviation industry considering the pathetic state it is in at the moment and for the next few years. If you read the SpiceJet news - rumours of foreign airlines picking up stakes in SpiceJet have been denied by CEO Neil Mills. And we're talking about one of India's leading low-cost airline. Turns out, the managements of Emirates, Air Asia and British Airways have said that the risk/reward ratio currently does not merit an investment in a domestic Indian carrier.
Risk/Reward ratio - A ratio used by many investors to compare the expected returns of an investment to the amount of risk undertaken to capture these returns.
Risk/Reward ratio - A ratio used by many investors to compare the expected returns of an investment to the amount of risk undertaken to capture these returns.
Last edited by smurf84; 21st Jun 2012 at 11:21.
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Vishwas
Is FDI good or bad.....? Well free trade has never hurt anyone in the long run. Things always even out. FDI in Civil Aviation has been permitted just direct investment from foreign airlines not. I do not think changing this now will really make a big difference to the current scenario. Foreign airlines entering India 15 years ago or more might have made a difference as they would have brought management and operational experience. Do review Emirates in Sri Lankan and they are still bleeding. In my opinion there will be no takers as airlines globally do not have piles of cash to invest.
What will make a big difference is that if somehow radical decisions were taken to reduce the operating costs by means of taxation and fees as well as maybe look at hiving AI off to a competent public company in tranches and letting go of control. Build the new airports into hubs and leverage that to reduce costs.
If only the big guns of aviation would concentrate on this rather than pulling each others panties down it might just work.
I do believe that the new aviation minister is more sincere than the past and his family has a 50 year track record of breaking the back of stubborn irrational unions/demands as well as leveraging with this government.
Till the current FM is not firmly entrenched in his new seat and out of the govt however nothing will happen.
A small tip: I have a strong feeling that your sms typing might get pulled up by the mods, besides it being hard to comprehend your questions.
Is FDI good or bad.....? Well free trade has never hurt anyone in the long run. Things always even out. FDI in Civil Aviation has been permitted just direct investment from foreign airlines not. I do not think changing this now will really make a big difference to the current scenario. Foreign airlines entering India 15 years ago or more might have made a difference as they would have brought management and operational experience. Do review Emirates in Sri Lankan and they are still bleeding. In my opinion there will be no takers as airlines globally do not have piles of cash to invest.
What will make a big difference is that if somehow radical decisions were taken to reduce the operating costs by means of taxation and fees as well as maybe look at hiving AI off to a competent public company in tranches and letting go of control. Build the new airports into hubs and leverage that to reduce costs.
If only the big guns of aviation would concentrate on this rather than pulling each others panties down it might just work.
I do believe that the new aviation minister is more sincere than the past and his family has a 50 year track record of breaking the back of stubborn irrational unions/demands as well as leveraging with this government.
Till the current FM is not firmly entrenched in his new seat and out of the govt however nothing will happen.
A small tip: I have a strong feeling that your sms typing might get pulled up by the mods, besides it being hard to comprehend your questions.
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Gopi
having read the above with interest, i have to laugh at comments like "gopi did not know what he was doing" 1st of all it was 3 rupi flights, to celebrate 3 years in operation i went to the party, 2nd having worked(flown) for both, deccan and kingfisher. Deccan was a much better run airline, and thirdly i would say selling for a profit after seeing the writing on the wall for most Indian airlines, is a smart move. Gopi`s problem seems to be "not knowing when to stay out"