Living in China - Families
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Lucky Air
Hi, I am considering doing the interview for Lucky Air next month 737.
Did you start a job at Lucky? Any chance you can share some information on the job? We will be arriving with family and non commuting.
Cheers
Did you start a job at Lucky? Any chance you can share some information on the job? We will be arriving with family and non commuting.
Cheers
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: China
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Living in China - Crucial is you Airline
Working in China for an expat is more or less the same as everywhere in the world.
You need to adopt to certain customs and deal with daily issues you might not face in your country (or in some countries).
At the end of the day it is to my opinion always down to the same few points:
1. How can you deal with other cultures and their habits?
2. Can you adopt to a live which has some goodies you might not have in your home country, but you trade these for some stuff you need to take up with?
3 Are you joining alone or do you take your family with you?
4. The MOST CRUCIAL PART: for which airline do you work and how reliable are they in scheduling "your live", making payments on time and operating to the level of professionalism you expect.
In China, it is also important to know, where you live and how high the pollution levels are. Usually a good suggestion is: Don't be in the north of China during December, January, February and beginning of March as due to their coal heating boilers, the pollution level is incredible and off any scale you can imagine.
Otherwise, if you have a good airline to work with, it is a place with career opportunities and challenging (in a positive way of speaking) atmosphere.
FCOM-5
You need to adopt to certain customs and deal with daily issues you might not face in your country (or in some countries).
At the end of the day it is to my opinion always down to the same few points:
1. How can you deal with other cultures and their habits?
2. Can you adopt to a live which has some goodies you might not have in your home country, but you trade these for some stuff you need to take up with?
3 Are you joining alone or do you take your family with you?
4. The MOST CRUCIAL PART: for which airline do you work and how reliable are they in scheduling "your live", making payments on time and operating to the level of professionalism you expect.
In China, it is also important to know, where you live and how high the pollution levels are. Usually a good suggestion is: Don't be in the north of China during December, January, February and beginning of March as due to their coal heating boilers, the pollution level is incredible and off any scale you can imagine.
Otherwise, if you have a good airline to work with, it is a place with career opportunities and challenging (in a positive way of speaking) atmosphere.
FCOM-5
Join Date: Mar 2008
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B737 - B787 - B777: WARNING
Hi there,
I have noticed that lots of guys were invited to a B787 or B777 direct non-type rated selection at China Southern.
Well most of the guys failed there and are now blacklisted to join any other airline in China for 1 year.
So let me tell you a little secret: The airlines in China are not only competing with each other on getting pilots for their own operation, but trying also to make their competitors not get enough pilots.
As apparently some airlines cannot match the working conditions of other airlines, they just lure pilots with the "candy" to get onto a B777 or B787 without a type rating from a B737 type, and then .... surprise ... you didn't make it!
But now you option to go on a well paid B737 contract is gone!
So, just a heads up and we aware how things work there...
Better to have a golden sparrow in your hands, rather then the pigeon on the roof ;-)
I have noticed that lots of guys were invited to a B787 or B777 direct non-type rated selection at China Southern.
Well most of the guys failed there and are now blacklisted to join any other airline in China for 1 year.
So let me tell you a little secret: The airlines in China are not only competing with each other on getting pilots for their own operation, but trying also to make their competitors not get enough pilots.
As apparently some airlines cannot match the working conditions of other airlines, they just lure pilots with the "candy" to get onto a B777 or B787 without a type rating from a B737 type, and then .... surprise ... you didn't make it!
But now you option to go on a well paid B737 contract is gone!
So, just a heads up and we aware how things work there...
Better to have a golden sparrow in your hands, rather then the pigeon on the roof ;-)
Last edited by FCOM-5; 9th Apr 2014 at 02:15.
Join Date: Nov 2013
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FCOM-5 I think you are dangerously close to advertising in this forum. Clearly you represent the recruiting department at HNA or Hainan. These forums are designed for people to exchange honest information...both good and bad.
My suggestion would be to contact the forum host and pay for some banner advertising space....
....oh wait! you've clearly already done that
I hope these forums don't deteriorate into paid advertisements for recruiters.
My suggestion would be to contact the forum host and pay for some banner advertising space....
....oh wait! you've clearly already done that
I hope these forums don't deteriorate into paid advertisements for recruiters.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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It is a very thin path I am moving on, I am well aware and I assure YOU (lifeafteraviation), I am not trying to be "pushy" towards one company.
I replied to you in another forum "living in china", what my intensions are and I am trying to participate so that we all can share experiences and ideas, which others reading can get a better understanding of what to expect if they move to or work in China.
There are many pilots, who have never worked as an "expat" or in another company than in their home country and these pilots might be really good guys, but they often face problems, which are mostly related to wrong (or lets say "different") expectations, not been able to adopt to the new culture or just the most common one body language, tone of voice and language barriers.
There is so much negative talking about the aviation in China and I do admit, that there is a looooooot of space for improvement (quoting the words of one British instructor friend of mine). :-) There are a lot of things, which personally drive me crazy every single day and if the day was smooth, then the day isn't over...which was I statement I made once and was cursed by, when I had my best man over with his wife, we were all relaxing after a long trip back from the Philippines and my wife mentioned "that I might have exaggerated a little bit, when I prepared the two of what to expect here"... as she finished her sentence, it became pitch black. Of course, imagine 4 people plus children, after a long trip, just got into the house with a crazy taxi driver trying to cheat you thinking you are a newbe tourist, dark house,... What happened...the electricity card ran out of units!
NOTE: In many places in China, you prepay your electricity, water and gas! Interesting move, considering how many people of a 1.3bn population would have overdue bills!
And there are many other stories, which are nice to share. Even on professional matters, like delays in pilots staring to fly, created by two departments (HR - Foreign Pilots Recruitment and FLT DEP - Training Scheduling Office), where the two ladies are literally sitting back to back, meaning if both want to get up, they can't because their chairs will touch, and they are not allowed to communicate the training schedule and availability of a pilot with each other (though they have lunch together), because by company policy they are different departments and all communication has to go up until the department head, then move sideways to the other department and then down again to the officer doing the work. Of course all communication has to be done like that....and it takes ages!
Well hope this will be history and so I really hope, that I can participate and clear some of those old fashion stuff to what is happening nowadays.
I like to get all the bad feedback, but also the good stuff so that we can bring up those issues to the management attention and work something out for us.
At the end of the day, we all share the same airspace and I know, that other airlines as well as government staff also look into these kind of posts. Not everything is taken seriously, but you can see trends...and that can make a difference to all of us.
I hope, I could convince you of my intensions and if you like to share experiences or anything else, I would really appreciate that it is understood as exactly that and nothing more than that.
FCOM-5
I replied to you in another forum "living in china", what my intensions are and I am trying to participate so that we all can share experiences and ideas, which others reading can get a better understanding of what to expect if they move to or work in China.
There are many pilots, who have never worked as an "expat" or in another company than in their home country and these pilots might be really good guys, but they often face problems, which are mostly related to wrong (or lets say "different") expectations, not been able to adopt to the new culture or just the most common one body language, tone of voice and language barriers.
There is so much negative talking about the aviation in China and I do admit, that there is a looooooot of space for improvement (quoting the words of one British instructor friend of mine). :-) There are a lot of things, which personally drive me crazy every single day and if the day was smooth, then the day isn't over...which was I statement I made once and was cursed by, when I had my best man over with his wife, we were all relaxing after a long trip back from the Philippines and my wife mentioned "that I might have exaggerated a little bit, when I prepared the two of what to expect here"... as she finished her sentence, it became pitch black. Of course, imagine 4 people plus children, after a long trip, just got into the house with a crazy taxi driver trying to cheat you thinking you are a newbe tourist, dark house,... What happened...the electricity card ran out of units!
NOTE: In many places in China, you prepay your electricity, water and gas! Interesting move, considering how many people of a 1.3bn population would have overdue bills!
And there are many other stories, which are nice to share. Even on professional matters, like delays in pilots staring to fly, created by two departments (HR - Foreign Pilots Recruitment and FLT DEP - Training Scheduling Office), where the two ladies are literally sitting back to back, meaning if both want to get up, they can't because their chairs will touch, and they are not allowed to communicate the training schedule and availability of a pilot with each other (though they have lunch together), because by company policy they are different departments and all communication has to go up until the department head, then move sideways to the other department and then down again to the officer doing the work. Of course all communication has to be done like that....and it takes ages!
Well hope this will be history and so I really hope, that I can participate and clear some of those old fashion stuff to what is happening nowadays.
I like to get all the bad feedback, but also the good stuff so that we can bring up those issues to the management attention and work something out for us.
At the end of the day, we all share the same airspace and I know, that other airlines as well as government staff also look into these kind of posts. Not everything is taken seriously, but you can see trends...and that can make a difference to all of us.
I hope, I could convince you of my intensions and if you like to share experiences or anything else, I would really appreciate that it is understood as exactly that and nothing more than that.
FCOM-5
Unless you are very strong mentally, China and their "culture" will drive you insane. Other than that, 7,000,000 (probably way underestimated) die of pollution in China each year, do you want one of those to be your family ?
Join Date: Nov 2013
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FCOM-5 I have no problem with you being here and sharing your stories and perspective as long as you are transparent. In fact i think it's good to have some input from the Chinese in these forums.
I find it fascinating that you are well aware of many of the inefficiencies and procedures inside a Chinese company and also you realize how difficult it is to change things to fix some of the many small problems. Clearly you have been educated on western style business and management.
I actually really like Chinese people as individuals. They are friendly, helpful and peaceful people for the most part. I find the culture fascinating while frustrating but I've learned a lot about myself and I believe I've become a better and stronger person as a result of working closely with such a different culture.
I think the problems of foreigners working in China are very great and the pollution and health issues are very significant not just for expats and their families but for the Chinese people. I see great potential that always seems to fall just short.
Such highly vertical management structures have proven inefficient yet are so strictly followed in China. Such management structure also causes low employee morale and low job satisfaction while discouraging both managers and employees from improving the company and working more efficiently. I think culturally it will be difficult for Chinese people to work in a flat organization because they are not educated and trained in school to be accustomed to flatter structure in organizations. As pilots we are all managers and in western culture are trained to treat our crew as professional equals while retaining authority for final decision making...it wasn't always like that and granted some pilots aren't so skilled at it but it's how we are trained.
Some expats that have an ability to be more adaptable are able to fit in easier and even enjoy living and working in China but the biggest problem expats can face is isolation and lonliness. As pilots and expats we stick together but due to the highly unpredictable variety of schedules it's not as easy for us to get together regularly after work for mutual support since our schedules rarely line up with each other. We often find ourselves alone with nothing to do on a day off which can be very depressing, almost as depressing as working all day with people who, while friendly and helpful, are not able to interact socially on the same level as each other due to language and cultural barrier.
I could go on and on...
I find it fascinating that you are well aware of many of the inefficiencies and procedures inside a Chinese company and also you realize how difficult it is to change things to fix some of the many small problems. Clearly you have been educated on western style business and management.
I actually really like Chinese people as individuals. They are friendly, helpful and peaceful people for the most part. I find the culture fascinating while frustrating but I've learned a lot about myself and I believe I've become a better and stronger person as a result of working closely with such a different culture.
I think the problems of foreigners working in China are very great and the pollution and health issues are very significant not just for expats and their families but for the Chinese people. I see great potential that always seems to fall just short.
Such highly vertical management structures have proven inefficient yet are so strictly followed in China. Such management structure also causes low employee morale and low job satisfaction while discouraging both managers and employees from improving the company and working more efficiently. I think culturally it will be difficult for Chinese people to work in a flat organization because they are not educated and trained in school to be accustomed to flatter structure in organizations. As pilots we are all managers and in western culture are trained to treat our crew as professional equals while retaining authority for final decision making...it wasn't always like that and granted some pilots aren't so skilled at it but it's how we are trained.
Some expats that have an ability to be more adaptable are able to fit in easier and even enjoy living and working in China but the biggest problem expats can face is isolation and lonliness. As pilots and expats we stick together but due to the highly unpredictable variety of schedules it's not as easy for us to get together regularly after work for mutual support since our schedules rarely line up with each other. We often find ourselves alone with nothing to do on a day off which can be very depressing, almost as depressing as working all day with people who, while friendly and helpful, are not able to interact socially on the same level as each other due to language and cultural barrier.
I could go on and on...
Chinese Pilots Demand Pay Parity with Expats | Aviation International News
b.
(lookout for that arrogance in your bones)
b.
(lookout for that arrogance in your bones)
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Actual
So far, everything I read on Pprune is negative. How do I know those who post, are not posting because they are recruiting for an opposition Co., or have
some bias.
I just want to know the reality of working for a particular
Company. Let’s face it, moving to a foreign country is always
going to have its issues but if it’s doable, the Company isn’t entirely
corrupt and it has the potential to be an adventure, then is Kunming
on my list? (Wife will be with me .. son’s just left school so will come and go).
some bias.
I just want to know the reality of working for a particular
Company. Let’s face it, moving to a foreign country is always
going to have its issues but if it’s doable, the Company isn’t entirely
corrupt and it has the potential to be an adventure, then is Kunming
on my list? (Wife will be with me .. son’s just left school so will come and go).
Last edited by CatTig; 17th Mar 2018 at 23:09.
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Right and Wrong
So far, everything I read on Pprune is negative. How do I know those who post, are not posting because they are recruiting for an opposition Co., or have
some bias.
I just want to know the reality of working for a particular
Company. Let’s face it, moving to a foreign country is always
going to have its issues but if it’s doable, the Company isn’t entirely
corrupt and it has the potential to be an adventure, then is Kunming
on my list? (Wife will be with me .. son’s just left school so will come and go).
some bias.
I just want to know the reality of working for a particular
Company. Let’s face it, moving to a foreign country is always
going to have its issues but if it’s doable, the Company isn’t entirely
corrupt and it has the potential to be an adventure, then is Kunming
on my list? (Wife will be with me .. son’s just left school so will come and go).
