Spring Airlines
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That’s very interesting to read. I have heard almost only good things from people who are or have been in Spring before. I’ll ask around and get update from some other guys.
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From four friends I have working there right now.
Expect around 18/20 nights outside Shanghai. Love Zbsj/Zgsz/Zggg hotels are lower than 2 stars
Expect only 36 hours in Shanghai every 7 days according CAAC minimum rest.
Expect lots of China layovers.
Good flights are for Chinesse pilot. Allways flights from/to Pudong. That means 1 hours os bus going and back every time (1 going another coming back)
No salary increase last 3 years.
People leaving to other carriers (BCA/LOONGAIR/HNA...)
No choice to change Leaves...
Expect lots of calls to make them a favour... But they dont help you.
Expect around 18/20 nights outside Shanghai. Love Zbsj/Zgsz/Zggg hotels are lower than 2 stars
Expect only 36 hours in Shanghai every 7 days according CAAC minimum rest.
Expect lots of China layovers.
Good flights are for Chinesse pilot. Allways flights from/to Pudong. That means 1 hours os bus going and back every time (1 going another coming back)
No salary increase last 3 years.
People leaving to other carriers (BCA/LOONGAIR/HNA...)
No choice to change Leaves...
Expect lots of calls to make them a favour... But they dont help you.
Last edited by Slarberg; 11th May 2018 at 22:54.
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Very interesting reading guys/gals.
ive been told recently that the basic pay check is about 20000 a month full time and nearly 15000 for 4/4 and a BKK-base are most probably a reality after some 8 months of route training in Shanghai which will be conducted on your preferred roster, 6/2 6/3 4/4 etc.
When I now read the most recent posts here from this month I fear this is not the whole story.
Since I have a son, 6years old, this facts it’s of outmost importance for me to get verified.
I can stand the route training with 16h+ days and pretend I’m on backpacking trip SE Asia like 20years ago for a while when overnight 4 days in a row, freezing my arse of or whatever, no problem.
Just want to know they live up to roster, for example 6/3 strictly or to expect changes on that?
( plan is to bring family to Thailand forever so Shanghai time is just a parantese in the context)
After reading this thread I have my doubts to make an understatement. And you’re also welcome to laugh the hell out of you but I really had to raise my doubts in print and would appreciate a very quick answer from someone consider himself capable, since I’m about to book my ticket for screening ( which they will refund but I don’t know where, when or how or even why)
pls spare a minute for quick reply, I’m on the bookingsite right now.
best regards, Mike , naive, w/ Thai family and new dreams
ive been told recently that the basic pay check is about 20000 a month full time and nearly 15000 for 4/4 and a BKK-base are most probably a reality after some 8 months of route training in Shanghai which will be conducted on your preferred roster, 6/2 6/3 4/4 etc.
When I now read the most recent posts here from this month I fear this is not the whole story.
Since I have a son, 6years old, this facts it’s of outmost importance for me to get verified.
I can stand the route training with 16h+ days and pretend I’m on backpacking trip SE Asia like 20years ago for a while when overnight 4 days in a row, freezing my arse of or whatever, no problem.
Just want to know they live up to roster, for example 6/3 strictly or to expect changes on that?
( plan is to bring family to Thailand forever so Shanghai time is just a parantese in the context)
After reading this thread I have my doubts to make an understatement. And you’re also welcome to laugh the hell out of you but I really had to raise my doubts in print and would appreciate a very quick answer from someone consider himself capable, since I’m about to book my ticket for screening ( which they will refund but I don’t know where, when or how or even why)
pls spare a minute for quick reply, I’m on the bookingsite right now.
best regards, Mike , naive, w/ Thai family and new dreams
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From inside the company
You never will get Bangkok base, either after release.
Already more than +60 captains already requested BKK base.
Actually 3 planes based there, 15 CPT based, and thats it.
A lot of crews from Shanghai goes every night to BKK and spend some days there.
Then, even the agency is telling you that you will get BKK base after release (now people more than 1 year under training because there are no enough instructors to release them) base are based on seniority....
Roster is a mess.
Doesnt matter with roster you are, 6/2,6/3,4/4.
Expect 4/5 days lines, with 3/4 nights outside Shanghai. Allways.
No round trips for foreigners.
You will start at 6 am first day, go somewhere like ZBSJ; ZGOW; ZSNB, and you will stay there around 4 or 5 days (the longest one is ZSYA wich is 5 days with 4 nights there and 1 day off in between)
then the las day go back Shanghai around midnight
36 hours rest time, and then Start again with the loop.
People is spending around 6/7 FULL days in Shanghai only.
People on 4/4 use to pay only for 8/10 hotel nights at Shanghai.
You are not going to be base in Shanghai, you spend 6 days a month in Shanghai. You are going to be moving around Spring bases all month, and more and more, because there is no space in Hongqiao or Pudong to put more planes there, also Spring is low cost, then they DONT pay the enough money to local people to have good flights, stands, parking lots in Shanghai for more planes, then, more and more planes are coming, to ZGOW; ZBSJ; ZSNB, ZYSA; new Beijing soon, but not to Bangkok. A lot of people waiting that dream
Now people are leaving....
Pay is lowest in Chinese market (even for same roster is 4000$ less a month compared to BCA; 2500$ than Loong Air, HNA group...), roster is the worst one, leaves now CANNOT be changed. You must work in Christmas, Chinese new Year, now company wants you to Work also ALL summer with NO leaves, but they don't give you any leave you want....
That is now Spring...
Have a look in other companies before come here.
As people tell you here, is the WORST one at the moment, and you WILL NEVER get BKK base....
You never will get Bangkok base, either after release.
Already more than +60 captains already requested BKK base.
Actually 3 planes based there, 15 CPT based, and thats it.
A lot of crews from Shanghai goes every night to BKK and spend some days there.
Then, even the agency is telling you that you will get BKK base after release (now people more than 1 year under training because there are no enough instructors to release them) base are based on seniority....
Roster is a mess.
Doesnt matter with roster you are, 6/2,6/3,4/4.
Expect 4/5 days lines, with 3/4 nights outside Shanghai. Allways.
No round trips for foreigners.
You will start at 6 am first day, go somewhere like ZBSJ; ZGOW; ZSNB, and you will stay there around 4 or 5 days (the longest one is ZSYA wich is 5 days with 4 nights there and 1 day off in between)
then the las day go back Shanghai around midnight
36 hours rest time, and then Start again with the loop.
People is spending around 6/7 FULL days in Shanghai only.
People on 4/4 use to pay only for 8/10 hotel nights at Shanghai.
You are not going to be base in Shanghai, you spend 6 days a month in Shanghai. You are going to be moving around Spring bases all month, and more and more, because there is no space in Hongqiao or Pudong to put more planes there, also Spring is low cost, then they DONT pay the enough money to local people to have good flights, stands, parking lots in Shanghai for more planes, then, more and more planes are coming, to ZGOW; ZBSJ; ZSNB, ZYSA; new Beijing soon, but not to Bangkok. A lot of people waiting that dream
Now people are leaving....
Pay is lowest in Chinese market (even for same roster is 4000$ less a month compared to BCA; 2500$ than Loong Air, HNA group...), roster is the worst one, leaves now CANNOT be changed. You must work in Christmas, Chinese new Year, now company wants you to Work also ALL summer with NO leaves, but they don't give you any leave you want....
That is now Spring...
Have a look in other companies before come here.
As people tell you here, is the WORST one at the moment, and you WILL NEVER get BKK base....
Last edited by Slarberg; 2nd May 2018 at 12:15.
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This really is a massive change from the information I got from guys there about 3-4 years ago. Good to see that this type of information is shared here on pprune though.
CP
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Yes.
There is a massive change on that company
4/5 years ago, people used to work 3/4 days, and had 2/3/4 days OFF.
Now the rule is 4/5 days working then 36 hours minimum rest, then again 4/5 days working 36 hours again,
Before used to be 1 to 2 nights outside Shanghai a MONTH.
Now is around 18/20 nights outside, in places like ZBSJ, ZSYA, ZGGG, ZGSZ, with dirty hotel, below minimums standard, with s.... food, nobody is eating in that hotels.
Before, ALL foreigners used to have Christmas leave.
NOW NO, you MUST work in Christmas, Chinese New Year, and also they are trying to keep you ALL summer with NO leave, and they don't allow to make any change, if you request something they say NO.
Before was a "good company", now they are the LOWEST pay is China, WORST schedule, WORST hotels, WORST conditions and seems to be no improvement in near future....
STAY AWAY FROM THAT COMPANY
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Spring Japan
Good day,
I'm looking for inside informations about Spring Japan.
Most of the recent posts on this thread is about China.
I'm in very interested with a non commuting position with Parc Aviation in Japan.
Kind Regards
I'm looking for inside informations about Spring Japan.
Most of the recent posts on this thread is about China.
I'm in very interested with a non commuting position with Parc Aviation in Japan.
Kind Regards
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Might not be much info on Spring Japan here as they only have a couple of aircraft. Non commuting is just a roster choice. This would be available at IBEX, Peach and Jetstar Japan. Ar Japan is probably the only expat position in Japan that requires commuting.
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Spring
hi,
just wanted to give my 2 cents from the inside:
BKK is not an option. Many Captains are waiting for it but there is no expansion whatsoever. Also, even if the base sounds great, flying schedule is almost unsustainable with only night flying: report time around 7/8PM with landing back at around 4/5AM. There are no flights operated during the day...so fatigue concerns are the biggest threat.
The Company realised they are losing too many pilots so they came up with revised T&C which are actually less attractive for new joiners as 4/4 and 5/4 patterns are not available anymore...as a new entrant you can therefore only opt for full time, 6/2 or 6/3. These patterns, under the current schedule, are very hard as time spent away from base and general rostering make pilots life a living hell (no joke): hotels are terrible...especially Shenzhen, Guangzhou while others are simply in the middle of nowhere...crew food has doubtful origins and is eatable only by the locals.
worth mentioning are also First Officers: very bad english in 80% of the cases with poor CRM and sub standard flying skills.
In general, I would stay away as competitors offer at least better working conditions and money...
good luck,
zz
just wanted to give my 2 cents from the inside:
BKK is not an option. Many Captains are waiting for it but there is no expansion whatsoever. Also, even if the base sounds great, flying schedule is almost unsustainable with only night flying: report time around 7/8PM with landing back at around 4/5AM. There are no flights operated during the day...so fatigue concerns are the biggest threat.
The Company realised they are losing too many pilots so they came up with revised T&C which are actually less attractive for new joiners as 4/4 and 5/4 patterns are not available anymore...as a new entrant you can therefore only opt for full time, 6/2 or 6/3. These patterns, under the current schedule, are very hard as time spent away from base and general rostering make pilots life a living hell (no joke): hotels are terrible...especially Shenzhen, Guangzhou while others are simply in the middle of nowhere...crew food has doubtful origins and is eatable only by the locals.
worth mentioning are also First Officers: very bad english in 80% of the cases with poor CRM and sub standard flying skills.
In general, I would stay away as competitors offer at least better working conditions and money...
good luck,
zz
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I guess Mr. Slarberg is happy with the new T&C. He must be on 6/3. Yes, forget about any bases and 4/4, 5/4. Company wants to eliminate 4/4, 5/4 altogether, so don't join thinking you will get 4/4 on your renewal.
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I am with you men.
Now; the dont allow us to be anymore on the 5/4 or 4/4 contract.
That means you can join now on Full time; 6/2 or 6/3....
They increased the salary now; but hey men; You are not based in Shanghai!!!!!
On my previous months I've been 4 full days in Shanghai a month.
I spent my fully month in ZBSJ bad hotel; worst food; nothing to do. ZGOW; ZGSZ; ZGGG. I got one Jeju pattern but..... If you are not int the "mafia" you will not het any Singapur flight; even Thailand... People spend days off moving around office giving them presents in order to get good flights; fxxk.
We are a lot of people leaving company in next months. My contract finish and I am.not going to stay in that **** anymore.
As he said; competitors.are giving me more.money; good hotels; and now good Caac license holder bonus when joining.
I heard they make some agreement with an Airline... I think they didnt tell them the TRUTH!!!
Working patterns like 5on 3 off; 4 On 2 off... Is a BIG LIE. 5 days down the road and then you have 36 hours rest; but men; starting from Pudong; that means you have to remove at least 3 to 4 hours rest due to lovely suttle bus from office till Pvg that they dont take into account!!!
Now; the dont allow us to be anymore on the 5/4 or 4/4 contract.
That means you can join now on Full time; 6/2 or 6/3....
They increased the salary now; but hey men; You are not based in Shanghai!!!!!
On my previous months I've been 4 full days in Shanghai a month.
I spent my fully month in ZBSJ bad hotel; worst food; nothing to do. ZGOW; ZGSZ; ZGGG. I got one Jeju pattern but..... If you are not int the "mafia" you will not het any Singapur flight; even Thailand... People spend days off moving around office giving them presents in order to get good flights; fxxk.
We are a lot of people leaving company in next months. My contract finish and I am.not going to stay in that **** anymore.
As he said; competitors.are giving me more.money; good hotels; and now good Caac license holder bonus when joining.
I heard they make some agreement with an Airline... I think they didnt tell them the TRUTH!!!
Working patterns like 5on 3 off; 4 On 2 off... Is a BIG LIE. 5 days down the road and then you have 36 hours rest; but men; starting from Pudong; that means you have to remove at least 3 to 4 hours rest due to lovely suttle bus from office till Pvg that they dont take into account!!!
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Mr. Slarberg is correct. Their plan to replace the guys leaving is to make the remaining pilots more productive. Eliminate 4/4,5/4 or make it so repugnant that they think your only choice is to switch 6/3,6/2. No salary increase on 4/4,5/4. They even want to make the remaining guys on 4/4, 5/4 baseless; spend entire 28/35 day rotation on the road with your 36 hours rest wherever you happen to be on day 5. Their way to force you 6/3. As Mr. Slarberg pointed out there is also another option.
Kudos to you Mr. S to broach the topic of "Mafia". This is culturally correct in view of who most of these individuals are. So sad when these guys do this thing when they know full well that every improvement in there roster makes another foreign colleagues roster worst to the same degree it makes theirs better. Shame on these guys.
Kudos to you Mr. S to broach the topic of "Mafia". This is culturally correct in view of who most of these individuals are. So sad when these guys do this thing when they know full well that every improvement in there roster makes another foreign colleagues roster worst to the same degree it makes theirs better. Shame on these guys.
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Lifting thread, No news?
I would really appreciate to hear about present situation at Spring now. I now a lot of things was bad before but I also expect they had to improve for you expats.
I met some guys when doing the medical and was confirmed that many of you guys were about to leave soon after first contract was finished.
I just have the CAAC checkride to pass now and would really appreciate an update about “My life with Spring”. As a Scandinavian I know all about The life at Spring, after the long dark winter. Short skirts and so on....
Also if anyone have something useful to share with me for the upcoming last and final sim check would be of great value for me.
Are the Chinese examiners generally ok? English spoken and can stand a white face like me or can you end up with an old fart just hating foreigners?
I have heard the worst stories from Korea.
My Springcheck were outstanding good.
very relevant cases in Sim and a great guy checking us. Communication was spotless (cause his English was better than mine)
Anyway. All news about and from inside Spring is highly valued.
With my outmost best regards, Sixten, Swedish Sixten😉
I met some guys when doing the medical and was confirmed that many of you guys were about to leave soon after first contract was finished.
I just have the CAAC checkride to pass now and would really appreciate an update about “My life with Spring”. As a Scandinavian I know all about The life at Spring, after the long dark winter. Short skirts and so on....
Also if anyone have something useful to share with me for the upcoming last and final sim check would be of great value for me.
Are the Chinese examiners generally ok? English spoken and can stand a white face like me or can you end up with an old fart just hating foreigners?
I have heard the worst stories from Korea.
My Springcheck were outstanding good.
very relevant cases in Sim and a great guy checking us. Communication was spotless (cause his English was better than mine)
Anyway. All news about and from inside Spring is highly valued.
With my outmost best regards, Sixten, Swedish Sixten😉
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Did you ask your Scandy fellows?
I just finished my contract two months ago...
Same story..... NO CHANGES
They promissed a stable working pattern. Work 5 on 3 off, 4 on 2 off, but we were doing 5 days 36 hours....
They only try to get people. They dont care about people when they are inside. They think the Iberian pilots are going to be the solution, but when they check the Hotels 1 star we have in China... they will complain.
Spring is a No Go airline inChina, beause of roster
II finally managed to finish my contract, but still waiting my release pappers.... they allways do the same, they wont give you the pappers just in order to "block" you with them....
As you said, I know few Cpts they are waiting the end of their contracts just in order to leave without any penalty....
Now, they are putting some Non standar CAAC SIM for new people, just for the Xiamen accident, and also the BCA.... people is being failed.....
The roster is the same, the promissed a lot last summer, but NOTHING happened and wont happen till next year with the new regulation, when they will work 5 days On 2 days Off...... instead of 36 hours like now...
You must speak with your Scandy colleges there....
There are greeners pastures out of China.... (dont think this will be like your SAS....)
I just finished my contract two months ago...
Same story..... NO CHANGES
They promissed a stable working pattern. Work 5 on 3 off, 4 on 2 off, but we were doing 5 days 36 hours....
They only try to get people. They dont care about people when they are inside. They think the Iberian pilots are going to be the solution, but when they check the Hotels 1 star we have in China... they will complain.
Spring is a No Go airline inChina, beause of roster
II finally managed to finish my contract, but still waiting my release pappers.... they allways do the same, they wont give you the pappers just in order to "block" you with them....
As you said, I know few Cpts they are waiting the end of their contracts just in order to leave without any penalty....
Now, they are putting some Non standar CAAC SIM for new people, just for the Xiamen accident, and also the BCA.... people is being failed.....
The roster is the same, the promissed a lot last summer, but NOTHING happened and wont happen till next year with the new regulation, when they will work 5 days On 2 days Off...... instead of 36 hours like now...
You must speak with your Scandy colleges there....
There are greeners pastures out of China.... (dont think this will be like your SAS....)
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Hello SixTen,
I will try to give you the most unbiased info possible as you are looking to make a big step in your career.Let me try to help.
Last year many pilots left because of bad working conditions. This pushed Spring to act. They tried to improve and promised many changes: from pay-rise to better roster patterns.
This eventually stopped the bleeding as people, I assume, were waiting to see the promised changes happening.
Unfortunately this was not the case: yes they increased salaries but only for some contracts (6/3; 6/2 and full time) and decided to stop accepting any other contract option (5/4 and 4/4). At the moment you can only join spring on what they consider mid productivity contracts (6/3 and up).
Roster is not good: expect to fly mainly to Chinese destinations and to stay away from base 5/6 days out of 7. (36 hours are the norm but you should expect 48 hours rest by January 2020). A lot of operation is from Shijiazhuang (North-East of China). Probably the worst place I have ever seen. If not Shijiazhuang then Guangzhou and Shenzhen (both also not good) are also the main places you will spend most of your lonely days. Layover Hotels are well below western standards (Guangzhou however has been upgraded recently in the hope to attract some pilots to be based permanently there)
The vast majority of Instructors and local pilots (including many FOs) have very poor english levels. Those that speak good enough english are employed by the Foreign Division. Speaking of Foreign Division, your Leader (Andy) will never be there, so do not bother to contact him or count on him (he has been appointed for political reasons). Everything is run pretty much by a Taiwanese guy (Henry) which is a puppet of other leaders. He lacks any leadership and decisional skills. Please do not trust him as he is a double-faced guy. He pretends to sell you the idea that he understand westerners because he is from Taiwan and that you can talk to him. Not true, stay away. Also the same Taiwanese community distrust him.
Cultural shock will be there and it took me a while to adjust (you will never fully adjust to be honest) and to start tolerate them.
In terms of pressure well, its off the scale, but that's common to all Chinese carriers.
Regarding Sims, thats a lottery: there is a lot of stress associated with it but you should be ok unless some guy doesn't like you or you are too noisy. In fact, I believe that yes, they need some foreign pilots but they are not desperate either. So this allow them to kick people out if they want to with all the associated benefits (keep the others aligned). Sim checks work like a charm for that purpose...I hope you understand. I know of a few guys that failed a new random sim check (only for foreigners) and some of them were forced out after that. There is a new policy that will interrupt your contract immediately if you fail 2 sim checks within your 3 years contract. Keep this in mind.
Positive sides: money its ok, but as you can see, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch...
Good luck and enjoy the ride while it lasts...
zz
I will try to give you the most unbiased info possible as you are looking to make a big step in your career.Let me try to help.
Last year many pilots left because of bad working conditions. This pushed Spring to act. They tried to improve and promised many changes: from pay-rise to better roster patterns.
This eventually stopped the bleeding as people, I assume, were waiting to see the promised changes happening.
Unfortunately this was not the case: yes they increased salaries but only for some contracts (6/3; 6/2 and full time) and decided to stop accepting any other contract option (5/4 and 4/4). At the moment you can only join spring on what they consider mid productivity contracts (6/3 and up).
Roster is not good: expect to fly mainly to Chinese destinations and to stay away from base 5/6 days out of 7. (36 hours are the norm but you should expect 48 hours rest by January 2020). A lot of operation is from Shijiazhuang (North-East of China). Probably the worst place I have ever seen. If not Shijiazhuang then Guangzhou and Shenzhen (both also not good) are also the main places you will spend most of your lonely days. Layover Hotels are well below western standards (Guangzhou however has been upgraded recently in the hope to attract some pilots to be based permanently there)
The vast majority of Instructors and local pilots (including many FOs) have very poor english levels. Those that speak good enough english are employed by the Foreign Division. Speaking of Foreign Division, your Leader (Andy) will never be there, so do not bother to contact him or count on him (he has been appointed for political reasons). Everything is run pretty much by a Taiwanese guy (Henry) which is a puppet of other leaders. He lacks any leadership and decisional skills. Please do not trust him as he is a double-faced guy. He pretends to sell you the idea that he understand westerners because he is from Taiwan and that you can talk to him. Not true, stay away. Also the same Taiwanese community distrust him.
Cultural shock will be there and it took me a while to adjust (you will never fully adjust to be honest) and to start tolerate them.
In terms of pressure well, its off the scale, but that's common to all Chinese carriers.
Regarding Sims, thats a lottery: there is a lot of stress associated with it but you should be ok unless some guy doesn't like you or you are too noisy. In fact, I believe that yes, they need some foreign pilots but they are not desperate either. So this allow them to kick people out if they want to with all the associated benefits (keep the others aligned). Sim checks work like a charm for that purpose...I hope you understand. I know of a few guys that failed a new random sim check (only for foreigners) and some of them were forced out after that. There is a new policy that will interrupt your contract immediately if you fail 2 sim checks within your 3 years contract. Keep this in mind.
Positive sides: money its ok, but as you can see, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch...
Good luck and enjoy the ride while it lasts...
zz
Last edited by zumzum; 11th Aug 2019 at 04:01.
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Yes.
You are right
A lot of us we were waiting for what They PROMISSED last July 2018...
Working patterns (5-3/4-2/3-2.....)
Better hotels....
ZBSJ/ZGGG/ZGSZ/ZGOW/ you know what I mean.....
Finally we got to be out of there!!!
They think they can call you anytime...
They fail you when they want.... Because someone doesn't like you....
There are better places to work in China....
And also outside China!
You are right
A lot of us we were waiting for what They PROMISSED last July 2018...
Working patterns (5-3/4-2/3-2.....)
Better hotels....
ZBSJ/ZGGG/ZGSZ/ZGOW/ you know what I mean.....
Finally we got to be out of there!!!
They think they can call you anytime...
They fail you when they want.... Because someone doesn't like you....
There are better places to work in China....
And also outside China!
