Lion air stops recruiting through eagle jet
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I'm sorry to say it this way but, anyone who buys into these programs has disgrace oneself. It's pilots like you who bring down our profession and make us all look desperate!
Standards, pay and respect will continue to be lowered if pilots accept and buy into these programs!
Pay your dues like the rest of us and stop putting your family and self in debt!!
Standards, pay and respect will continue to be lowered if pilots accept and buy into these programs!
Pay your dues like the rest of us and stop putting your family and self in debt!!
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What a crap deal. You pay $15,000USD for a type rating and then you need to pay an additional $39,700USD for the EJ course, total price comes to $54,000 before you even start your first 500hrs of not getting paid.
So lets throw in $20,000 for living expenses for the first 500hrs as u will need to take into account rent/living expenses and any other incidentals as they come up and then at the end of the 500hrs the pay on offer is $2300usd per/mth, yearly salary of $27,600USD per yr. You dont need to be a mathematical genius to work the figures out. Your initial outlay is $74,000USD to get paid $27,000USD per year and on a 4yr contract where if you want to leave prior to the 4yrs you have to pay up $100,000USD.
Sounds like a great ponzi scheme to me. Even Berni Madoff would have been proud of this one.
What this sounds like is the boyz and gals at EJ and their counterpart at Lion Air want a pay rise for the new year and have worked out a way to justify it.
Why would anyone go for a deal like this, irrespective of the amount of flying you will be doing. It is just plain ludicrous.
So lets throw in $20,000 for living expenses for the first 500hrs as u will need to take into account rent/living expenses and any other incidentals as they come up and then at the end of the 500hrs the pay on offer is $2300usd per/mth, yearly salary of $27,600USD per yr. You dont need to be a mathematical genius to work the figures out. Your initial outlay is $74,000USD to get paid $27,000USD per year and on a 4yr contract where if you want to leave prior to the 4yrs you have to pay up $100,000USD.
Sounds like a great ponzi scheme to me. Even Berni Madoff would have been proud of this one.
What this sounds like is the boyz and gals at EJ and their counterpart at Lion Air want a pay rise for the new year and have worked out a way to justify it.
Why would anyone go for a deal like this, irrespective of the amount of flying you will be doing. It is just plain ludicrous.
Last edited by el_capitano; 3rd Jan 2012 at 01:29.
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Pay your dues like the rest of us and stop putting your family and self in debt!!
Who exactly are you paying your dues to?
Is there like some kind of committee that gives you a certificate or something that says: "John Smith has paid his Dues"?
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No PosClimb... it means that individuals log time at their own expense and not at the expense of the professionals in our industry who are attempting to improve terms and conditions.
Those who willingly enter a P2F program ala Lion Air are counter productive to the cause. IMO paying to sit in the right seat of a shiny jet while the airline is making money off of the P2Fer during revenue operations is even worse than crossing a picket line.
It has to be one of the lowest forms of self respect one can have for their peers let along themselves.
Those who willingly enter a P2F program ala Lion Air are counter productive to the cause. IMO paying to sit in the right seat of a shiny jet while the airline is making money off of the P2Fer during revenue operations is even worse than crossing a picket line.
It has to be one of the lowest forms of self respect one can have for their peers let along themselves.
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All the talk against P2F is just pissing into the wind.
So long as you have:
1. More pilots than planes.
2. Pilots with rich parents or access to credit.
You will always have P2F.
Only way to stop it would be to:
1. Severely regulate and limit the supply of new pilots (not gonna happen).
2. Have some kind of world pilots association that regulates all pilot employment (dream'n).
And P.S., until Joe Airline pilot can sign my Passport Application, pilots are not, and will never be, technically "professionals".
Highly skilled labor would be a more accurate term.
So long as you have:
1. More pilots than planes.
2. Pilots with rich parents or access to credit.
You will always have P2F.
Only way to stop it would be to:
1. Severely regulate and limit the supply of new pilots (not gonna happen).
2. Have some kind of world pilots association that regulates all pilot employment (dream'n).
And P.S., until Joe Airline pilot can sign my Passport Application, pilots are not, and will never be, technically "professionals".
Highly skilled labor would be a more accurate term.
Join Date: May 2007
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All the talk against P2F is just pissing into the wind.
So long as you have:
1. More pilots than planes.
2. Pilots with rich parents or access to credit.
You will always have P2F.
Only way to stop it would be to:
1. Severely regulate and limit the supply of new pilots (not gonna happen).
2. Have some kind of world pilots association that regulates all pilot employment (dream'n).
And P.S., until Joe Airline pilot can sign my Passport Application, pilots are not, and will never be, technically "professionals".
Highly skilled labor would be a more accurate term.
3rd Jan 2012 17:43
So long as you have:
1. More pilots than planes.
2. Pilots with rich parents or access to credit.
You will always have P2F.
Only way to stop it would be to:
1. Severely regulate and limit the supply of new pilots (not gonna happen).
2. Have some kind of world pilots association that regulates all pilot employment (dream'n).
And P.S., until Joe Airline pilot can sign my Passport Application, pilots are not, and will never be, technically "professionals".
Highly skilled labor would be a more accurate term.
3rd Jan 2012 17:43
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Beyond a joke now
Dear all,
Ive never posted on pprune but ive been reading up on Eaglejet and the line training program, I got myself rated on the 737 last year with hope of doing the 500 hrs, yes some people have mom and dads to fund them but not me, i earned my money working to fund the whole thing, but theres know way now i can do it, im not a whinger and would have had no problem living in Indonesia for a year or 2 building hours, but the price has gone up to almost 40000USD, when eaglejet informed me off this i replied by saying "you can suck my b#**s for 5000 dollars, then we'l talk" its supply and demand and if we all stop looking to P2F then prices will eventually come down to........ NOTHING, which is exactly how it should be done. i await eaglejets response to my very gracious offer and in the mean time im getting an instructors license, i know a guy with a flight school who'l hire the wizard and wait and see what happens.
All the best fockers.
The banter wizard, the greatest wizard of them all.
Ive never posted on pprune but ive been reading up on Eaglejet and the line training program, I got myself rated on the 737 last year with hope of doing the 500 hrs, yes some people have mom and dads to fund them but not me, i earned my money working to fund the whole thing, but theres know way now i can do it, im not a whinger and would have had no problem living in Indonesia for a year or 2 building hours, but the price has gone up to almost 40000USD, when eaglejet informed me off this i replied by saying "you can suck my b#**s for 5000 dollars, then we'l talk" its supply and demand and if we all stop looking to P2F then prices will eventually come down to........ NOTHING, which is exactly how it should be done. i await eaglejets response to my very gracious offer and in the mean time im getting an instructors license, i know a guy with a flight school who'l hire the wizard and wait and see what happens.
All the best fockers.
The banter wizard, the greatest wizard of them all.
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There is nothing wrong with having a self funded type rating!
Now when a pilot pays to fly/work, that's where the line should drawn. Shame on the pilots who keep theses companies like EagleJet in business. Have some self respect for yourself and this industry. How could you call yourself a professional pilot, when you pay your employer or whoever to go to work?!?!
You continue to lower the standard of our well loved profession. It doesn't matter if you have parents funding, credit or even won the lottoery. It's simply not right and you aren't a professional pilot!!
Now when a pilot pays to fly/work, that's where the line should drawn. Shame on the pilots who keep theses companies like EagleJet in business. Have some self respect for yourself and this industry. How could you call yourself a professional pilot, when you pay your employer or whoever to go to work?!?!
You continue to lower the standard of our well loved profession. It doesn't matter if you have parents funding, credit or even won the lottoery. It's simply not right and you aren't a professional pilot!!
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hahahahhaha, just saw the offer.
so need to invest 40000$, work for free and pay my own living expenses for 9 months and then stay there for 4 years for salary of 3500$/month
30000(TR)+40000(EJ)+15000(LIVING EXPENS.DURING LINE TR)= 85000$ to invest
3500*(4*12-9)= 136500$ -----that total gain from salary
(local contract 2500$ basic + 10$/flying hr)
salary per yr= 34125$
program expenses per year= 21250$
----------------
"profit": 12875$ ----------per month: 1072$
so...you should live from 1072$/month in jakarta for 4 years
hahahhahahha, I really don't understand who is crazy here...are there people applying for this one??
so need to invest 40000$, work for free and pay my own living expenses for 9 months and then stay there for 4 years for salary of 3500$/month
30000(TR)+40000(EJ)+15000(LIVING EXPENS.DURING LINE TR)= 85000$ to invest
3500*(4*12-9)= 136500$ -----that total gain from salary
(local contract 2500$ basic + 10$/flying hr)
salary per yr= 34125$
program expenses per year= 21250$
----------------
"profit": 12875$ ----------per month: 1072$
so...you should live from 1072$/month in jakarta for 4 years
hahahhahahha, I really don't understand who is crazy here...are there people applying for this one??
Join Date: Jan 2006
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To all the Microsoft pilots, to the future children of the magenta line, to the current children of the magenta line, and to the parents of the aforementioned...Know this one and all... tuition comes at a very high price.
These children remind me of a scene from the movie Porky’s… Great movie by the way.
A groups of high schoolers fro Angel Beach go a house of ill repute to experience their first assignation. Well they pay Porky a large sum of money…. Shown to a special door, to which they open with great anticipation, only to find themselves in a swamp.
Porky is up on the balcony with other patrons of his establishment laughing at the lads in the water who not only had their egos diminished, but less the sum of money they came with without the reward of receiving the anticipated services to be rendered.
To those expecting sympathy for getting hosed by the likes of Eagle???
rent the movie Porky's. After watching the movie recommend it to any of your mates thinking about the Eagle/Lion scam.
Consider it as a nondeductible tax expensive.
These children remind me of a scene from the movie Porky’s… Great movie by the way
.A groups of high schoolers fro Angel Beach go a house of ill repute to experience their first assignation. Well they pay Porky a large sum of money…. Shown to a special door, to which they open with great anticipation, only to find themselves in a swamp.
Porky is up on the balcony with other patrons of his establishment laughing at the lads in the water who not only had their egos diminished, but less the sum of money they came with without the reward of receiving the anticipated services to be rendered.
To those expecting sympathy
for getting hosed by the likes of Eagle??? rent the movie Porky's. After watching the movie recommend it to any of your mates thinking about the Eagle/Lion scam.Consider it as a nondeductible tax expensive.
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And if I may opine my views... Those who are against the P2Fer... you know the ones who continue to lower the bar for those professionals who are trying to raise the bar for their fellow colleagues... you know the ones willing not only to pay lots of money to fly for free on revenue flights... you know the ones who are worse than those who would cross a picket line, and what for??? instant gratification at the expense of those trying to improve conditions... please feel free to post your views.
It's important to boycott employment at any of the P2F puppy mills ala Lion Air in any position, including a position as a LTC, TRI, or TRE.
It's important to boycott employment at any of the P2F puppy mills ala Lion Air in any position, including a position as a LTC, TRI, or TRE.
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does anybody know if this was just a crazy rumor or not? not speculations, somebody who actually knows something please..
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Lion has an abundance of first officers - and most aren't ready for upgrade. HR doesn't think a lot will change soon too. Even those with experience on type are being turned away as they apparently have no need (what about their recent orders??) and the top recruiter also gets cash from each agency too.
In short, isn't a huge demand, so price bring risen to deter applicants, but there will still be some who will do it.
In short, isn't a huge demand, so price bring risen to deter applicants, but there will still be some who will do it.