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After Worldrover's idiotic rant, the question must be asked again. Why would any pilot who has given years of honest effort to his profession be defending an obvious fraud?
Mmmmm.
Mmmmm.
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I don't think one would defend a fraud. However the system of checks and balances should take care of outing the frauds without public humiliation or flogging.
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I would normally want the moderator to step in and delete the whole thread for being more useless chaff on this forum. This one, however, is different.
I do hope the moderator steps in, but only to change the name of the thread, to "Fake Pilots, and Those defending Fake Pilots. Maybe a whole new category on PPRUNE?
Unfortunately, I have met fake pilots. I would love to have a new PPRUNE category, dedicated to outing the scumbags. I would personally list the types of backgrounds to look out for. Thanks URGE, I now have another profile to look for.
I do hope the moderator steps in, but only to change the name of the thread, to "Fake Pilots, and Those defending Fake Pilots. Maybe a whole new category on PPRUNE?
Unfortunately, I have met fake pilots. I would love to have a new PPRUNE category, dedicated to outing the scumbags. I would personally list the types of backgrounds to look out for. Thanks URGE, I now have another profile to look for.
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Don't forget to weed out all the scabs and tax evaders and illegal workforce, all those countless Ozzie, Yanks and Canucks evading taxes back home. Hopefully the next round of this conflict will expose all this scam to the authorities.
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worldrover: What I meant earlier is that people are getting intimidated by people who will act as police and judge and post it on an open forum.
Fake pilots should off course be exposed, but one are innocent until proven guilty. And posts done on pprune are hardly proof that would hold up in court.
Fake pilots should off course be exposed, but one are innocent until proven guilty. And posts done on pprune are hardly proof that would hold up in court.
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Yes I agree. This is a Rumor network after all. Nothing legal. BUT.
The burden of proof is on the pilot to prove what he is, to prove his background, his experience, and his qualifications. All pilot jobs require this, some more than others. China is definitely in the way more than others category.
18 months ago, when they got to the stage of applying for our airport ID's here, we went through about two weeks of phone calls from the company, because the CAAC was calling them. We had to clarify and back up things on our college transcripts even. URGE's Doctorate in Physics from MIT, and Rhodes Scholar Certificates might not hold up. They are going to call MIT.
As for our flying backgrounds, they demanded original documents from the airlines, No criminal record letters, embassy authenticated, from my home country and the last one that I worked. I had to have an original latter from Vietnamese CAAV saying that I had no accidents. This is in addition to the normal FAA Verification of Certificate Privledges, and No Accident letter from the FAA. The office that issues these is called, personally, by someone at the CAAC.
400 hours on a Korean license, and a Transport Canada license, with no Canadian flying experience, will not cut it here, as that will not satisfy their requirements. The FAA has a file for all license holders, all the way back to when we got our first license. For me that was 1980 with a private license continuing all the way to 3 years ago when I left the US. It is on the copy of my file, that I have in my possession.
There are more Americans working here than any other nationality by far. This might be the only place in the contract world like that. Lots of Canadians as well. The CAAC has a great deal of experience doing background checks on us. They know what we "look like" on paper.
I have seen several pilots not pass the airport ID phase, and we are a very small airline.
The burden of proof is on the pilot to prove what he is, to prove his background, his experience, and his qualifications. All pilot jobs require this, some more than others. China is definitely in the way more than others category.
18 months ago, when they got to the stage of applying for our airport ID's here, we went through about two weeks of phone calls from the company, because the CAAC was calling them. We had to clarify and back up things on our college transcripts even. URGE's Doctorate in Physics from MIT, and Rhodes Scholar Certificates might not hold up. They are going to call MIT.
As for our flying backgrounds, they demanded original documents from the airlines, No criminal record letters, embassy authenticated, from my home country and the last one that I worked. I had to have an original latter from Vietnamese CAAV saying that I had no accidents. This is in addition to the normal FAA Verification of Certificate Privledges, and No Accident letter from the FAA. The office that issues these is called, personally, by someone at the CAAC.
400 hours on a Korean license, and a Transport Canada license, with no Canadian flying experience, will not cut it here, as that will not satisfy their requirements. The FAA has a file for all license holders, all the way back to when we got our first license. For me that was 1980 with a private license continuing all the way to 3 years ago when I left the US. It is on the copy of my file, that I have in my possession.
There are more Americans working here than any other nationality by far. This might be the only place in the contract world like that. Lots of Canadians as well. The CAAC has a great deal of experience doing background checks on us. They know what we "look like" on paper.
I have seen several pilots not pass the airport ID phase, and we are a very small airline.
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Thank you for that last response. I knew there was something I haven´t thought of. No Accidents Letter, Verification of Licence and No Criminal Background from the embassy have not been mentioned by the company I´m going to work for :-)
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Worldrover...
fyi the Wagamama chain is actually based on a Japanese ramen house (NOT Chinese )..so your bit of mud slinging at poor old USMCP accusing him of being some kind of Hillbilly doesnt really hit the spot...or maybe its actually you who cant tell the difference between sashimi and chop suey?..hmmm
Cheers
fyi the Wagamama chain is actually based on a Japanese ramen house (NOT Chinese )..so your bit of mud slinging at poor old USMCP accusing him of being some kind of Hillbilly doesnt really hit the spot...or maybe its actually you who cant tell the difference between sashimi and chop suey?..hmmm
Cheers
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Camel, just for your information like you said, Ramen is Chinese
food and term, believe me.
And Wagamama was marketed as a pan Asian (Chinese mainly) food in the UK.
Alan (the founder) happens to be an acquaintance since my HK times.
Not something to discuss in a pilot forum, but just making a point for the fellow Englishman that you responded to, he sounds careful with his statements, and right on if I may add.
You should try it first before commenting I don't think they have any WM branches in Africa though....
food and term, believe me.And Wagamama was marketed as a pan Asian (Chinese mainly) food in the UK.
Alan (the founder) happens to be an acquaintance since my HK times.
Not something to discuss in a pilot forum, but just making a point for the fellow Englishman that you responded to, he sounds careful with his statements, and right on if I may add.
You should try it first before commenting
I don't think they have any WM branches in Africa though....
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Hi NoodleAir.
I believe they have chinese noodle shops in china ..and they also have japanese style ramen shops in china ...different for sure .
the last time i was in soho, wagamama had a distinctly japanese style menu with japanese dishes ...however i do agree that their food is not authentic japanese or even chinese ...
However i would stick to my conviction that wagamama is NOT a chinese restaurant ..if you want that just go a bit deeper into Soho then you have indeed the real thing ..although mainly Hk style.
And yep not a lot of it in africa so i have to pop over to Osaka or Shanghai for my fix.
I believe they have chinese noodle shops in china ..and they also have japanese style ramen shops in china ...different for sure .
the last time i was in soho, wagamama had a distinctly japanese style menu with japanese dishes ...however i do agree that their food is not authentic japanese or even chinese ...
However i would stick to my conviction that wagamama is NOT a chinese restaurant ..if you want that just go a bit deeper into Soho then you have indeed the real thing ..although mainly Hk style.
And yep not a lot of it in africa so i have to pop over to Osaka or Shanghai for my fix.
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I am glad I raised the level then.
Now you can tell the rest of us, how, after all this screening expat pilots have to go through (according to your experience), they manage to fly the big iron with 300 hrs of true experience.
It is puzzling to me, and I have to follow after the member that spanked you, that neither have I met any fakes in flesh and blood during my career. They do exist like the bogeymen for pilots to tell stories.
Do tell us where and what kind (level etc) were the fake (many) that you have met. If you cannot, just call it a foul move and move on.
I also did not know that Chinese airlines ask for degrees to employ pilots(?), as for background checks all the way to college I wouldn't even comment
Most experienced pilots don't even have paperwork that old.
I do know that the Chinese people do their best to man their increasing number of aircraft while ensuring a certain level of safety and that expats are answering to the call because of the low min requirements.
The "fake" expat stories are more applicable to US regionals than in China-Korea and the rest. Nationals maybe but not expats
Flying Daggers you forgot to mention the ones that cheat on their wives and girlfriends, and the ones that do not recycle, we should report all these too.
Now you can tell the rest of us, how, after all this screening expat pilots have to go through (according to your experience), they manage to fly the big iron with 300 hrs of true experience.
It is puzzling to me, and I have to follow after the member that spanked you, that neither have I met any fakes in flesh and blood during my career. They do exist like the bogeymen for pilots to tell stories.
Do tell us where and what kind (level etc) were the fake (many) that you have met. If you cannot, just call it a foul move and move on.
I also did not know that Chinese airlines ask for degrees to employ pilots(?), as for background checks all the way to college I wouldn't even comment
Most experienced pilots don't even have paperwork that old.
I do know that the Chinese people do their best to man their increasing number of aircraft while ensuring a certain level of safety and that expats are answering to the call because of the low min requirements.
The "fake" expat stories are more applicable to US regionals than in China-Korea and the rest. Nationals maybe but not expats
Flying Daggers you forgot to mention the ones that cheat on their wives and girlfriends, and the ones that do not recycle, we should report all these too.
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Sorry Noodleair, you didn't read my post correctly. I didn't say you raised the bar, I said talking about noodle shops did. You, like Worldrover, are defending an obvious fraud, and fake pilot. The only human being, on gods $%#@ing green earth, that would ever defend a fake airline pilot, is another fake airline pilot.
This is my last response to you, as you don't rate a response.
This is my last response to you, as you don't rate a response.
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OK he said, she said.. his is, he is not. Noodle shops??? OK I can live with them. But all's I'm looking for is information about Hainan... the NG Fleet specifically. Worth going to the interview?
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Either you cannot read or you cannot comprehend my written english. Lets try again.
I am not defending anyone (use a quote if you can) I am just questioning your case that is full of...holes at least
Right you are, no one would defend a fake unless he is one too, but I have not read one defending post yet in this thread.
Its just your insisting constant reference to the hords of expat fakes and their defendants that got me thinking that the first to call out "Fake, get him" in a crowd is probably trying to create a diversion.
You managed to captivate us all with your allegations of having first hand experience of the Yeti, Sasquatch, and many fake expat pilots trying to get our jobs
Then you gave conflicting information on how strict checks you personally experienced and even that with exaggerations just to make an impression.
Give us more details. I asked you specific questions and never got a hint of an answer. You can stay in your underground hole and choose not to answer of course
Meanwhile worthy members of this forums can help people with need for real information like Captjns without your background noise in full squelch yelling about the bogeyman
I am not defending anyone (use a quote if you can) I am just questioning your case that is full of...holes at least
Right you are, no one would defend a fake unless he is one too, but I have not read one defending post yet in this thread.
Its just your insisting constant reference to the hords of expat fakes and their defendants that got me thinking that the first to call out "Fake, get him" in a crowd is probably trying to create a diversion.
You managed to captivate us all with your allegations of having first hand experience of the Yeti, Sasquatch, and many fake expat pilots trying to get our jobs
Then you gave conflicting information on how strict checks you personally experienced and even that with exaggerations just to make an impression.
Give us more details. I asked you specific questions and never got a hint of an answer. You can stay in your underground hole and choose not to answer of course
Meanwhile worthy members of this forums can help people with need for real information like Captjns without your background noise in full squelch yelling about the bogeyman
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Captjns;
I know a couple of 73 pilots and have talked to them quite a bit in dispatch and on the jumpseat. For the last year they said their schedules have been great. Lots of days off. But, that can change. Pay is really good, maybe the best in the contract world for a 73 driver. They seemed happy working there, especially because of the money.
Their complaints mirror those of the rest of us working in China. Overall it is as good a job as you will probably get in China.
I know a couple of 73 pilots and have talked to them quite a bit in dispatch and on the jumpseat. For the last year they said their schedules have been great. Lots of days off. But, that can change. Pay is really good, maybe the best in the contract world for a 73 driver. They seemed happy working there, especially because of the money.
Their complaints mirror those of the rest of us working in China. Overall it is as good a job as you will probably get in China.
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Be carefull
If you are going to come to China, think carefully. Spring Airlines dinged a guy 12K for an altitude bust. Seems the Chinese pilots dont get penalized nearly that amount.
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Hey URGE, Noodlair, and Worldrover;
I just heard some really good news. I guy I don't know very well, but flew with once, also from United Airlines, just upgraded to Captain in the contract world. He was a really good guy, similar background to me, but a rustpicker instead of a jarhead. He was hired a few classes after you, URGE. He is junior to you.
When he was furloughed from UAL, he also went to the contract world, as an FO. He did his job professionally, met his commitments, and was awarded a 320 Captain upgrade a few months ago.
He now has additional, real, and verifieable flying credentials, in addition to the ones he had before. He didn't have to launder his license through another country's aviation licensing authority, or claim he worked for a now defunct airline. He did everything with honesty and integrity.
And now, he is sleeping well in his bed, happy for his good fortune, a bit of good luck, and proud of his hard work and accomplishments. Hopefully he will have a long and safe flying career. I wish him well.
This contrasts starkly with the choices of another on this thread, and those defending his fraudulant actions.
I just heard some really good news. I guy I don't know very well, but flew with once, also from United Airlines, just upgraded to Captain in the contract world. He was a really good guy, similar background to me, but a rustpicker instead of a jarhead. He was hired a few classes after you, URGE. He is junior to you.
When he was furloughed from UAL, he also went to the contract world, as an FO. He did his job professionally, met his commitments, and was awarded a 320 Captain upgrade a few months ago.
He now has additional, real, and verifieable flying credentials, in addition to the ones he had before. He didn't have to launder his license through another country's aviation licensing authority, or claim he worked for a now defunct airline. He did everything with honesty and integrity.
And now, he is sleeping well in his bed, happy for his good fortune, a bit of good luck, and proud of his hard work and accomplishments. Hopefully he will have a long and safe flying career. I wish him well.
This contrasts starkly with the choices of another on this thread, and those defending his fraudulant actions.
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No pilot I know has anything but contempt for the small percentage of frauds among us.
Oh, wait. The three all stars on this forum know that the real threat to our profession is not the fakes. The real threat is a non-existant "witch hunt" against such phonies.
Makes you wonder.
Oh, wait. The three all stars on this forum know that the real threat to our profession is not the fakes. The real threat is a non-existant "witch hunt" against such phonies.
Makes you wonder.
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Hey USMCProbe,
Good for you! Good news must be nice to hear.
Also for your friend, good for him, especially the sleeping part, though he might need some melatonin from now on.
I wish him well too.
Your post can clearly be characterized though
I thought that you went even deeper in your underground hole, but obviously you keep trying to say something(?)
The questions remain unanswered, who-where-what level-nationality were they (you know).
And after your last one, what are the choices of this guy you are referring to (we all know his PPRUNE name is Urge no?),you told us enough, you can tell us some more, and also who are those defending him, how, and what were their choices during their career. Tell us oh please please tell us
We are all so lucky in this forum to have you! So much knowledge!
I like it, its like talking to a medium with a crystal ball!
Boy you definitely have to get a life
Good for you! Good news must be nice to hear.
Also for your friend, good for him, especially the sleeping part, though he might need some melatonin from now on.
I wish him well too.
Your post can clearly be characterized though
I thought that you went even deeper in your underground hole, but obviously you keep trying to say something(?)
The questions remain unanswered, who-where-what level-nationality were they (you know).
And after your last one, what are the choices of this guy you are referring to (we all know his PPRUNE name is Urge no?),you told us enough, you can tell us some more, and also who are those defending him, how, and what were their choices during their career. Tell us oh please please tell us
We are all so lucky in this forum to have you! So much knowledge!
I like it, its like talking to a medium with a crystal ball!
Boy you definitely have to get a life