Vietnam Airlines $30,000 Bond
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Vietnam Airlines $30,000 Bond
Hi, I'm still pretty new to the contract world and I have been contacted by Rishworth about a non-typed 777 FO position with Vietnam Airlines. They require you to pay for your own 777 type rating and they also want to bond you for $30,000.
Has anyone have any experience with this contract? Is being bonded normal? And how do you go about getting a bond? Unfortunately I don't have an extra $30k laying around right now... Do most people arrange this with their bank? If so what banks have you used and how does the process work?
Thanks!
Has anyone have any experience with this contract? Is being bonded normal? And how do you go about getting a bond? Unfortunately I don't have an extra $30k laying around right now... Do most people arrange this with their bank? If so what banks have you used and how does the process work?
Thanks!
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If a company hires non type rated pilots and provides the type-rating training at company expense, it is not uncommon for them to ask for a bond or return of service agreement.
If, however, they expect you to pay for your own training, wtf is the bond for?
If, however, they expect you to pay for your own training, wtf is the bond for?
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I guess, I would say...don't be so naive, Nobody as of now has done this "DEAL" as at it sucks... At least, most of the pilots on the bus (320) gets bonded for an upgrade to CA. But for an FO(even on 777), I would say...don't even think about it...this is a...ugh:
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DirtyDan;
I would avoid th 30k bond unless VAC pays for your type. All airlines are trying to get pilots for less. VAC does it fairly successfully. Using crap like this.
Step number 1 for you. Avoid Rishworth. They are white collar criminals.
#2. Either they pay for the training, or no bond.
Did I mention avoid Rishworth?
I would avoid th 30k bond unless VAC pays for your type. All airlines are trying to get pilots for less. VAC does it fairly successfully. Using crap like this.
Step number 1 for you. Avoid Rishworth. They are white collar criminals.
#2. Either they pay for the training, or no bond.
Did I mention avoid Rishworth?
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Agree with USMCProbe,
#1, Dont go through R-$$worth
#2, Do not sign any bond unless they pay for your 777 rating in full. (Then only sign bond for actual REALISTIC type rating cost), say $20,000USD.
#3, Dont let them spout rubbish about cost of line training you. You fill a legal seat with a training Capt, on a revenue earning flights while training. Therefore the cost of line training would actually be minimal. (eg; extra pilot on flight for a few sectors until you can land the plane if Training Capt becomes incapacitated). Training Capts are rostered normal flights if no line training is required that day, so they cant say they cost more than line Capts, so you have to pay the difference.
No wonder they cant get pilots willing to sign such contracts.
#1, Dont go through R-$$worth
#2, Do not sign any bond unless they pay for your 777 rating in full. (Then only sign bond for actual REALISTIC type rating cost), say $20,000USD.
#3, Dont let them spout rubbish about cost of line training you. You fill a legal seat with a training Capt, on a revenue earning flights while training. Therefore the cost of line training would actually be minimal. (eg; extra pilot on flight for a few sectors until you can land the plane if Training Capt becomes incapacitated). Training Capts are rostered normal flights if no line training is required that day, so they cant say they cost more than line Capts, so you have to pay the difference.
No wonder they cant get pilots willing to sign such contracts.
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Unrealistic corporate/nation al image?
They pay less AND require you to bond yourself now for EVERY job they offer. Newhire pilot/Upgrade/TRI all bonded now going forward.
They will be bewildered when the new hire pilots dry up and most of the current pilots bail after their upgrade bond is "paid".
15 new A321s coming next year too........this is going to be hilarious to watch.
They pay less AND require you to bond yourself now for EVERY job they offer. Newhire pilot/Upgrade/TRI all bonded now going forward.
They will be bewildered when the new hire pilots dry up and most of the current pilots bail after their upgrade bond is "paid".
15 new A321s coming next year too........this is going to be hilarious to watch.
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They may decide to leave before their bond is up.
Many countries laws do not accept such bonds, especially if paying for their own type rating BEFORE being employed was a requirement. The court would ask for a detailed breakdown of the bond costings.
Obviously you wouldnt go to court in Vietnam, you may lose there, but VNA would have to take you to court in your own country and would probably realise they would be waisting time and money on a case they would likely lose..
Many countries laws do not accept such bonds, especially if paying for their own type rating BEFORE being employed was a requirement. The court would ask for a detailed breakdown of the bond costings.
Obviously you wouldnt go to court in Vietnam, you may lose there, but VNA would have to take you to court in your own country and would probably realise they would be waisting time and money on a case they would likely lose..
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I don't agree with the concept IF it's true but I wonder if the OP has their facts straight, there's nothing on RAL website or any of the other agencies, and to the best of my knowledge the 500 hours on type is a CAAV requirement in order to validate the type rating for expat pilots.
However ... even if it was true ... I'd still grab it, because why would you want to walk out on the bond anyway? VAC 777 F/O is one of the best jobs out there and getting in here non type rated would be a real opportunity. Great country to live in if you come here with an open mind, money is pretty good especially considering it's such a cheap place to live, and it's about half the workload of most other longhaul jobs. Just ask the guys who have recently left Emirates to come here.
However ... even if it was true ... I'd still grab it, because why would you want to walk out on the bond anyway? VAC 777 F/O is one of the best jobs out there and getting in here non type rated would be a real opportunity. Great country to live in if you come here with an open mind, money is pretty good especially considering it's such a cheap place to live, and it's about half the workload of most other longhaul jobs. Just ask the guys who have recently left Emirates to come here.
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VAT 777 Opportunity
Hi Guys,
I also got the same email, and yes it is not published on RW site
as we speak. I am also interested in this offer the only thing like
everyone also have concerns about the bond thing!! there is
$3000 deduction every month which I don't understand for what since
you are bonded?? they mentioned the training cost is $22000 but the
bond is $30000 and you will be bonded for the $30000......is this right??
In addition I was told I will not qualify since I don't have Pacific region
experience!!! now can someone tell me what sort of Pacific region
experience I must have in order to qulify? with all do respect I found
this statment rubbish!! given the fact I have European experience, Asian,
Middle Eastern, and African experience...isn't that enough?? or is it
dodging CBs & other bad weather dosen't exist in any other region except
the Pacific and that's why they are requesting to be Pacific region experienced.
Any feed back will be highly appreciated.
happy flying
I also got the same email, and yes it is not published on RW site
as we speak. I am also interested in this offer the only thing like
everyone also have concerns about the bond thing!! there is
$3000 deduction every month which I don't understand for what since
you are bonded?? they mentioned the training cost is $22000 but the
bond is $30000 and you will be bonded for the $30000......is this right??
In addition I was told I will not qualify since I don't have Pacific region
experience!!! now can someone tell me what sort of Pacific region
experience I must have in order to qulify? with all do respect I found
this statment rubbish!! given the fact I have European experience, Asian,
Middle Eastern, and African experience...isn't that enough?? or is it
dodging CBs & other bad weather dosen't exist in any other region except
the Pacific and that's why they are requesting to be Pacific region experienced.
Any feed back will be highly appreciated.
happy flying
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Luke S;
It ain't that cheap for western style apartments in nice areas, and the commute home for almost everyone other than someone who lives in Sydney is both time consuming and very expensive, making the low pay even less lucrative. If you are a non-motorbike rider ( I had two) cab rides add up quickly. Schools are very expensive if you bring your family. When I was there, less than half "survived" the one year mark. I did, but it was challenging. There are some great things about Saigon, but also a lot of serious limitations. Throw the 30k bond on top of the low pay, and I would pass. I wouldn't give it a second thought.
It ain't that cheap for western style apartments in nice areas, and the commute home for almost everyone other than someone who lives in Sydney is both time consuming and very expensive, making the low pay even less lucrative. If you are a non-motorbike rider ( I had two) cab rides add up quickly. Schools are very expensive if you bring your family. When I was there, less than half "survived" the one year mark. I did, but it was challenging. There are some great things about Saigon, but also a lot of serious limitations. Throw the 30k bond on top of the low pay, and I would pass. I wouldn't give it a second thought.
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As far as why it is not publicized on RAL's website, it is simply a continuation of their BS business practices. When you agree to an interview, you have to sign a "mini" contract. That contract states that if you pass the screening, and turn down the job, you are required to pay RAL thousands of usd as compensation. So I asked to see the employment contract for the job first. They said "that is not our policy".
Stupidly, I went to the screening and passed. They then sent me the employment contract. It was the worse document that I have ever seen, making me liable for everything, and them nothing. It even said that if RAL or the airline broke any part of the contract, that all other parts of the contract were still valid. I was forbidden to hold RAL legally accountable for anything, including breach of contract (which happened). And, lo and behold, I was not allowed to show ANYONE the contract, not even an attorney.
The 30k bond is just one more bit of BS you will find out about AFTER you sign a contract to go to an interview.
Did I forget to mention "Avoid Rishworth". I am with Parc not and very happy with the service.
Stupidly, I went to the screening and passed. They then sent me the employment contract. It was the worse document that I have ever seen, making me liable for everything, and them nothing. It even said that if RAL or the airline broke any part of the contract, that all other parts of the contract were still valid. I was forbidden to hold RAL legally accountable for anything, including breach of contract (which happened). And, lo and behold, I was not allowed to show ANYONE the contract, not even an attorney.
The 30k bond is just one more bit of BS you will find out about AFTER you sign a contract to go to an interview.
Did I forget to mention "Avoid Rishworth". I am with Parc not and very happy with the service.
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VAT
USMCProbe,
Just wondering if PARC offering the same deal for none rated guys
with better terms & conditions or overall better package? any info.
would be highly appreciated. Let's hope this deal is not only being
offered by RAL ! I am looking forward to give Asia a try a change
in scenery would be great for me ...in addition I am solo with a
girlfriend ....so we are hoping it to be of great experience.
Happy Flying
Just wondering if PARC offering the same deal for none rated guys
with better terms & conditions or overall better package? any info.
would be highly appreciated. Let's hope this deal is not only being
offered by RAL ! I am looking forward to give Asia a try a change
in scenery would be great for me ...in addition I am solo with a
girlfriend ....so we are hoping it to be of great experience.
Happy Flying
Why would someone sign a 30k bond when you can get it for free with EMirates, Qatar and Etihad
Because pilots would generally eat their young, thats why
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I have European experience, Asian, Middle Eastern, and African experience...isn't that enough?? or is it dodging CBs & other bad weather dosen't exist in any other region except the Pacific
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Did I forget to mention "Avoid Rishworth"
For what it's worth, I just checked back through my old emails and I can confirm I received a template employment contract very early on in the process, certainly before I signed any agreement with anyone to do anything. I didn't even request to see it, it was included with the initial paperwork to confirm availability for sim screening, so your whole rant is based on utterly false premises.
Tedious though it may be, I guess you do have the right to share your opinion with everyone at every opportunity in order to pursue your little war, but there is a difference between "opinion" and "utter bulls**t", and it's really not constructive for the people who come on here seeking information about how to get the job.
Having said that, I'm no particular lover of any particular agency, and if there is in fact an offer going around involving pay-for-type-rating PLUS a bond then that's a sad reflection on the sad state this industry has sunk to. To the original poster, you mentioned you don't have $30 grand laying around - do I take it from that, that they actually require you to lodge the money with them, Singapore style? Has anyone heard anything from any other agencies or is this a Rishworth exclusive?
In any case I guarantee the offer will be 1000 times oversubscribed, because no-previous-experience 777 contract FO jobs are as rare as hens teeth - and I still maintain this is a cool town and a cool job.
I do agree with you on one aspect USMC, the money isn't the best contract on earth on a total cash-in-hand basis, but when you look at how much you've got left over at the end of each month I maintain it's as least as good if not better than most other jobs out there, including Singapore, Hong Kong and sand pit - and I rent a big villa in District 2 and I've got 2 school age kids.
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Yes you did. About 99000000000000000 times. On just about every page of every thread to do with VAC for god knows how many years now. You even managed to get a sticky thread to that effect, right at the top of the main forum page. In fact to be honest mate, it's quite hard for the 100+ happily employed Rishworth VAC pilots to make their voice heard, over the one sad loser ex employee with a vendetta.
Great stuff, but USMC is very new to the contract world and does not have a clear understanding as far as how agencies and airlines operate together, the fact is, the new Non-Rated program is a commitment bond generated by the airline, NOT the agency - so a pilot isn't lured away after the first year, this also serves to protect them during the repayment process. There are several pilots already in the program, although someone has posted that no one is in it.
Cheers, D.L.
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LS,
Yes, USMC does seem to have many gripes and he has gone on about RSworth. Maybe thats because he has had problems with RW and he has a bloody good reason to go on about it. He details his problems as much as he can on the forum and appears to know what he is talking about.
This forum is here for pilots to get info on the industry, both the good and the bad. If one pilot, young or old, employed or not, is saved from being screwed over by some SOB in the industry of which there are many. Then he and the forum has done it's job. Like so many who have come through this industry, I have been screwed over by self- serving AHoles who don't give 2 Sh#!$ about pilots. So instead of putting sh@# on him, maybe some constructive criticism and some helpful hints for the pilots that come here to find some help wouldn't go astray.
Having said that, the PARC pilots do seem a lot happier reading through the threads.
Your happy, stay that way and enjoy the life in SGN. It sounds like USMC want to, but can't. I know that there are a hell of a lot of guys there that have had enough and are looking elsewhere, especially on the 320.
Yes, USMC does seem to have many gripes and he has gone on about RSworth. Maybe thats because he has had problems with RW and he has a bloody good reason to go on about it. He details his problems as much as he can on the forum and appears to know what he is talking about.
This forum is here for pilots to get info on the industry, both the good and the bad. If one pilot, young or old, employed or not, is saved from being screwed over by some SOB in the industry of which there are many. Then he and the forum has done it's job. Like so many who have come through this industry, I have been screwed over by self- serving AHoles who don't give 2 Sh#!$ about pilots. So instead of putting sh@# on him, maybe some constructive criticism and some helpful hints for the pilots that come here to find some help wouldn't go astray.
Having said that, the PARC pilots do seem a lot happier reading through the threads.
Your happy, stay that way and enjoy the life in SGN. It sounds like USMC want to, but can't. I know that there are a hell of a lot of guys there that have had enough and are looking elsewhere, especially on the 320.