How long are you going to wait, wait and wait?
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Capt Apache.
I will pay special attention to your post.
First let me correct you on a few points.
A company is not expected to hire you. They are a business. They are there to make money. They are not there to provide an employment service and they do not HAVE to hire you. No matter if you are a national or not.
In my time in Africa, I met a lot of local pilots.
They seemed to be of the impression that because they have a licence, they should be hired.
One man in particular sticks in my mind.
He was sitting in our crew room while waiting for the chief pilot and ops manager. He sat down on the couch, spread himself out so no one else could sit there, changed the channel that was on the TV (that other pilots were watching) and then turned it up quite loud.
The people interviewing him turned up and he stopped them midway through and said "oh you can hire me, but only for the caravan, I will not fly the pistons"
First of all he didn't meet the insurance minimums for the aircraft, nor the seniority aspect.
Secondly, when does a new hire dictate where he goes in the company fleet?
Thirdly, he couldn't even explain how a turbine works!
My next question is a serious one. If you walked up to a person of Indian descent, and told him he was Asian, would he correct you and say he's Indian? I think he would.
I'm well aware of where the country is located geographically.
And to the waking up and doing a u-turn. When you choose to take my words out of context then yes they will have a different meaning.
One other factor I forgot to point out in most of Southern Africa, is the difficulty of the issue of work permits for Indian pilots.
This is at a governmental level and has nothing to do with the aviation companies.
Most companies can't be bothered going through the lengthy process that is involved in getting the work permit issued, when they can hire someone else with certainty of getting the permit, and in half the time.
In regards to paying to fly. I wasn't referring to those program's. I was referring to people offering to work for free flying C206s and other similar aircraft.
I will admit that I did see some of this in my time in Canada from Canadian citizens, but I did also see Indian citizens doing this.
This is the third continent that I have seen it happen on.
I will pay special attention to your post.
First let me correct you on a few points.
A company is not expected to hire you. They are a business. They are there to make money. They are not there to provide an employment service and they do not HAVE to hire you. No matter if you are a national or not.
In my time in Africa, I met a lot of local pilots.
They seemed to be of the impression that because they have a licence, they should be hired.
One man in particular sticks in my mind.
He was sitting in our crew room while waiting for the chief pilot and ops manager. He sat down on the couch, spread himself out so no one else could sit there, changed the channel that was on the TV (that other pilots were watching) and then turned it up quite loud.
The people interviewing him turned up and he stopped them midway through and said "oh you can hire me, but only for the caravan, I will not fly the pistons"
First of all he didn't meet the insurance minimums for the aircraft, nor the seniority aspect.
Secondly, when does a new hire dictate where he goes in the company fleet?
Thirdly, he couldn't even explain how a turbine works!
My next question is a serious one. If you walked up to a person of Indian descent, and told him he was Asian, would he correct you and say he's Indian? I think he would.
I'm well aware of where the country is located geographically.
And to the waking up and doing a u-turn. When you choose to take my words out of context then yes they will have a different meaning.
One other factor I forgot to point out in most of Southern Africa, is the difficulty of the issue of work permits for Indian pilots.
This is at a governmental level and has nothing to do with the aviation companies.
Most companies can't be bothered going through the lengthy process that is involved in getting the work permit issued, when they can hire someone else with certainty of getting the permit, and in half the time.
In regards to paying to fly. I wasn't referring to those program's. I was referring to people offering to work for free flying C206s and other similar aircraft.
I will admit that I did see some of this in my time in Canada from Canadian citizens, but I did also see Indian citizens doing this.
This is the third continent that I have seen it happen on.
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At no point did I say that these things were true with Indian pilots.
I was telling you the reputation that precedes them in most countries around the world and why it is difficult for them to find employment.
I was telling you the reputation that precedes them in most countries around the world and why it is difficult for them to find employment.
I don't know how you could come to such a stupid conclusion when most Indians still get their licenses abroad and hardly have any presence in general aviation (because of other issues than reputation) Try to come up with facts instead of some stupid story like how I met a moron who flipped the TV channel on his fellow pilots crap.
Secondly no one will tell an Indian or a Chinese or a Japanese or a Phillipino or a Bangladeshi that he is an Asian you fool.They would know that anyways unless ofcourse they were you
And Thankyou for your mention about Work permits.
Last edited by Capt Apache; 22nd Jun 2014 at 03:53.
Apache,
The "concoction" you talk about isn't part of his imagination. I can tell you its true. There are companies where I fly now that will not hiring Indian nationals. For the reason stated earlier. Not fake licences but fake ratings and prof checks have been found in the past. While this isn't isolated to people of the sub continent, the percentage of people being found doing this was higher for people who held a particular passport.
At one point we were getting 10-20 guys a week knocking on the door of our office asking for jobs. Only the Indians offered bribes and to work for free.
What do you think of that Apache?
The "concoction" you talk about isn't part of his imagination. I can tell you its true. There are companies where I fly now that will not hiring Indian nationals. For the reason stated earlier. Not fake licences but fake ratings and prof checks have been found in the past. While this isn't isolated to people of the sub continent, the percentage of people being found doing this was higher for people who held a particular passport.
At one point we were getting 10-20 guys a week knocking on the door of our office asking for jobs. Only the Indians offered bribes and to work for free.
What do you think of that Apache?
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Capt Apache,
I don't know whether you fly for a airline in India or still looking for a job. Outside of India, Indians are known to be Indians rather than Asians. Yes Geographically we r in Asia so is Pak,Afghan,Iran etc.. But Asians r normally meant for Chinese,Japanese,Koreans etc. So in-order to understand that you need to travel overseas and try to mingle with other races not just hanging with your own kind.. BTW I'am of Indian origin.
Secondly on the part of fake license yes India does have a bad reputation overseas. Its talked among pilot bodies. I'm not saying every Indian has a fake license. Well Indian pilots are good in terms of flying. You did post earlier that M.E airlines r hiring.. They hire guys with exp on Jets not 250hrs CPL. Many countries Licensing agencies have a problem to hire a 250hr Indian CPL holders. Even if the company wants to hire them.
I don't know whether you fly for a airline in India or still looking for a job. Outside of India, Indians are known to be Indians rather than Asians. Yes Geographically we r in Asia so is Pak,Afghan,Iran etc.. But Asians r normally meant for Chinese,Japanese,Koreans etc. So in-order to understand that you need to travel overseas and try to mingle with other races not just hanging with your own kind.. BTW I'am of Indian origin.
Secondly on the part of fake license yes India does have a bad reputation overseas. Its talked among pilot bodies. I'm not saying every Indian has a fake license. Well Indian pilots are good in terms of flying. You did post earlier that M.E airlines r hiring.. They hire guys with exp on Jets not 250hrs CPL. Many countries Licensing agencies have a problem to hire a 250hr Indian CPL holders. Even if the company wants to hire them.
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What do you think of that Apache?
But somehow you have only heard about the Indians.
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What fairy world do you live in?!?!
My current part of the world is paying more than regional airlines in my home country. There's also nothing unsafe about it. Unless you consider landing on anything less than 2000m unsafe?
You're obviously trolling for responses now and just starting to look like a insolent child.
My current part of the world is paying more than regional airlines in my home country. There's also nothing unsafe about it. Unless you consider landing on anything less than 2000m unsafe?
You're obviously trolling for responses now and just starting to look like a insolent child.
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@ lilflyboy Who is talking about you.
I am in no position to know where it is you work.Why are you getting so defensive about my comment.
I am sure its safe where you work
I am in no position to know where it is you work.Why are you getting so defensive about my comment.
I am sure its safe where you work
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At no point did I say that these things were true with Indian pilots.
I was telling you the reputation that precedes them in most countries around the world and why it is difficult for them to find employment.
I was telling you the reputation that precedes them in most countries around the world and why it is difficult for them to find employment.
Not fake licences but fake ratings and prof checks have been found in the past.
BTW, that comment is more ridiculous because even the minority of Indians who get their CPLs in India get their ratings abroad because of lack of third party TRTOs. The shortage of TRTOs in India is even more acute than flight schools.
At one point we were getting 10-20 guys a week knocking on the door of our office asking for jobs. Only the Indians offered bribes and to work for free.
Eagle Jet International, Inc.
Eagle Jet International, Inc.
Excerpts from the above link are given below:
In order to optimize the experience received during our heavy jet programs, pilots are based in Europe or nearby countries and fly most of the time within the western European airspace.
Indians are known to be Indians rather than Asians.
Indian Americans top rich lists in USA
Indian Americans top rich lists in USA - Firstpost
Indian Americans: The New Model Minority
Indian Americans: The New Model Minority - Forbes
Wherever you go in the world you will find that Indians have contributed richly to local societies. The first generation Indians in foreign lands may drive taxis and be coolies but their next generations do much better. Some people are averse to fair competition so they rely on cheap tricks like spreading rumors against their competitors. If such people have the balls, get the Indians to write exams, appear for interviews and sim checks and then -- may the best man win, whatever the race, nationality etc. etc. But NO, rumor mongering is the way to go for these "supremacists."
BTW I'am of Indian origin.
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Billboard.
I am not sure why you can't grasp your mind around what I am trying to say.
I do not believe the sterotypes that are being propagated throughout the aviation community.
I did however, just list those sterotypes as you and a few other Indian nationals seem to be lost as why they couldn't find work worldwide.
When you pull your head out far enough to realise this, then perhaps you might start feeling a little foolish for your rants about racism.
I was in no way being racist.
Stop being so quick to play the racist card. Nothing makes me sicker than someone doing that.
I am not sure why you can't grasp your mind around what I am trying to say.
I do not believe the sterotypes that are being propagated throughout the aviation community.
I did however, just list those sterotypes as you and a few other Indian nationals seem to be lost as why they couldn't find work worldwide.
When you pull your head out far enough to realise this, then perhaps you might start feeling a little foolish for your rants about racism.
I was in no way being racist.
Stop being so quick to play the racist card. Nothing makes me sicker than someone doing that.
Billboard,
I'm pretty sure that Eagle jet is a registered business and pays its taxes. They offer a service and you pay them money for it. That is called a financial transaction.
When someone comes and knocks on your office door and tries to hand you big brown envelope full of cash to jump up the hiring list that is called a bribe.
I don't support pay to fly and you should know what is a bribe and what isn't.
I'm pretty sure that Eagle jet is a registered business and pays its taxes. They offer a service and you pay them money for it. That is called a financial transaction.
When someone comes and knocks on your office door and tries to hand you big brown envelope full of cash to jump up the hiring list that is called a bribe.
I don't support pay to fly and you should know what is a bribe and what isn't.
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@lilflyboy
You seem to be hiding behind the 'Don't Shoot me I am the messenger' veil
It is only people like you and your pals that are aware of such 'Stereotypes'.I have only met and heard of hardworking and brave individuals who have worked their ass off trying to find a job against all odds.
Stop spreading bull****.
You seem to be hiding behind the 'Don't Shoot me I am the messenger' veil
It is only people like you and your pals that are aware of such 'Stereotypes'.I have only met and heard of hardworking and brave individuals who have worked their ass off trying to find a job against all odds.
Stop spreading bull****.
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Brave? Against all odds? You make it sound like they are under fire while looking for work.
It is indeed a "don't shoot the messenger" situation. I'm not hiding behind anything.
I'm not spreading anything. It's a well known stigma that Indian pilots face around the world.
I'm sorry if the reality hurts you and your feelings.
It is indeed a "don't shoot the messenger" situation. I'm not hiding behind anything.
I'm not spreading anything. It's a well known stigma that Indian pilots face around the world.
I'm sorry if the reality hurts you and your feelings.
I suggest Billboard and Apache actually go out and work as pilots for a while before coming on here and telling people what they should think.
It's easy to beat your chest about things you don't like from the comfort of your parents house. It must be tough being an out of work CPL holder in India!!
Keep those opinions (based on no actual real experience) coming.
It's easy to beat your chest about things you don't like from the comfort of your parents house. It must be tough being an out of work CPL holder in India!!
Keep those opinions (based on no actual real experience) coming.
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Billboard and Apache
A little about my background first.
I was an Instructor for many more years than you have been in aviation. I was the International Student Manager and specialized predominantly in training Indian students.
My observations through years of experience.
Most of the student pilots sent to us on their parents money wasted most of their parents money.
Some, a small percentage were some of the best students I have ever come across. Diligent, hard working and focused. One thing was common with all of these students. Either they were paying their own way not relying on their parents or they realized that every second they spent overseas training was costing their parents enormous amounts of money.
On the most part though, the majority (all males) were lazy, spent their nights enjoying themselves their weekend drinking themselves to sleep not realizing that every night they partied was costing their parents a minimum of a months wages.. One night of fun, one month of hard work for their parents.
I got sick of this at one point and brought all of them together.. Explained to them that the money they were wasting was going to cost them in the long run. Their parents had a limited amount of funds and there guys were drinking a fair percentage of it. That meeting ended with tears in the eyes of a few of the slightly smarter ones. The end result was a lot of them never finished their courses, went home empty handed. Some came back years later but non the wiser.
As mentioned some of the Indian students I trained were the best I ever saw. Most of those are now in the airlines and deserve to be there, they worked exceptionally hard for where they are now.
I am now in charge of Hiring pilots for an expanding operator in Asia..
What I write below is not hear say it is fact.
I have had thousands of applicants over the past year from all over the world including India.
It was only the Indian pilots that offered me money if i gave them a job. They would come to my office, uninvited, demand to see me and then offer to give me money if i hired them. Now this didn't just happen once. It wasn't just a one off. It happened numerous times by numerous different individuals all with Indian passports.
This is the fastest way of getting black banned by me and our company.
Before you jump up and down like a child. I have hired Indian pilots, I have 2 new ones starting in the coming months. Both of these come highly recommended and have proved that they work and study hard.
The Asian country where I work looks down on Indian pilots because of the past experiences. Most companies will not hire, not interview and not even talk to Indian Pilots. The local DGCA has made it extremely difficult to hire those holding an Indian passport. Its not impossible but it is difficult.
What lilflyboy has said about Indian pilots in the most part is correct. Like it or not in the countries i have worked, Indians have a VERY bad reputation. Perceived or otherwise. This is not my view, it is the view of the entire industry where I work.
If your looking for work, send me your CV, have a go. Stand up and be counted but dont just hide behind PPRUNE and complain that your victimized or stereo typed. If i dont normally reply individually to the 1000s of applications I get, but I will happily look at your CV and if you meet our requirements I will offer you the same as I offer everyone else, "A Fair Chance".. If you dont meet our requirements or I don't like the way you've written your CV, I will also tell you why. (NOTE: Onetime offer only to Billboard and Apache).. Everyone else follow the normal channels.
My words of advice to any wannabe pilot, from any country holding any passport..
1. Do NOT ever offer to pay money to get a job outside your own country
2. Do NOT ever offer to work for free
3. Work and Study hard
4. Dont come to an interview not knowing anything about our aircraft
5. If you dont meet the above then DO NOT waste my or my colleagues time, your name will be added the long black banned list throughout this country.
Andy
A little about my background first.
I was an Instructor for many more years than you have been in aviation. I was the International Student Manager and specialized predominantly in training Indian students.
My observations through years of experience.
Most of the student pilots sent to us on their parents money wasted most of their parents money.
Some, a small percentage were some of the best students I have ever come across. Diligent, hard working and focused. One thing was common with all of these students. Either they were paying their own way not relying on their parents or they realized that every second they spent overseas training was costing their parents enormous amounts of money.
On the most part though, the majority (all males) were lazy, spent their nights enjoying themselves their weekend drinking themselves to sleep not realizing that every night they partied was costing their parents a minimum of a months wages.. One night of fun, one month of hard work for their parents.
I got sick of this at one point and brought all of them together.. Explained to them that the money they were wasting was going to cost them in the long run. Their parents had a limited amount of funds and there guys were drinking a fair percentage of it. That meeting ended with tears in the eyes of a few of the slightly smarter ones. The end result was a lot of them never finished their courses, went home empty handed. Some came back years later but non the wiser.
As mentioned some of the Indian students I trained were the best I ever saw. Most of those are now in the airlines and deserve to be there, they worked exceptionally hard for where they are now.
I am now in charge of Hiring pilots for an expanding operator in Asia..
What I write below is not hear say it is fact.
I have had thousands of applicants over the past year from all over the world including India.
It was only the Indian pilots that offered me money if i gave them a job. They would come to my office, uninvited, demand to see me and then offer to give me money if i hired them. Now this didn't just happen once. It wasn't just a one off. It happened numerous times by numerous different individuals all with Indian passports.
This is the fastest way of getting black banned by me and our company.
Before you jump up and down like a child. I have hired Indian pilots, I have 2 new ones starting in the coming months. Both of these come highly recommended and have proved that they work and study hard.
The Asian country where I work looks down on Indian pilots because of the past experiences. Most companies will not hire, not interview and not even talk to Indian Pilots. The local DGCA has made it extremely difficult to hire those holding an Indian passport. Its not impossible but it is difficult.
What lilflyboy has said about Indian pilots in the most part is correct. Like it or not in the countries i have worked, Indians have a VERY bad reputation. Perceived or otherwise. This is not my view, it is the view of the entire industry where I work.
If your looking for work, send me your CV, have a go. Stand up and be counted but dont just hide behind PPRUNE and complain that your victimized or stereo typed. If i dont normally reply individually to the 1000s of applications I get, but I will happily look at your CV and if you meet our requirements I will offer you the same as I offer everyone else, "A Fair Chance".. If you dont meet our requirements or I don't like the way you've written your CV, I will also tell you why. (NOTE: Onetime offer only to Billboard and Apache).. Everyone else follow the normal channels.
My words of advice to any wannabe pilot, from any country holding any passport..
1. Do NOT ever offer to pay money to get a job outside your own country
2. Do NOT ever offer to work for free
3. Work and Study hard
4. Dont come to an interview not knowing anything about our aircraft
5. If you dont meet the above then DO NOT waste my or my colleagues time, your name will be added the long black banned list throughout this country.
Andy
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To Capt Apache and Billboard you both really are doing India more harm than good. India has its own special Flavors some good some bad like every country.
A quote from a retired IAF Gp Capt friend.
A quote from a retired IAF Gp Capt friend.
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Well Capt Apache I cant speak for the other ones but I am nothing to do with that but as you are so fond of asking for proof all the time go ahead and prove I am all those other poster's.
I think someone else also told you once to go and turn on TV and do something more useful, I think Good advice.
I think someone else also told you once to go and turn on TV and do something more useful, I think Good advice.
