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How long are you going to wait, wait and wait?

South Asia and the Far East News and views on the fast growing and changing aviation scene on the planet.

How long are you going to wait, wait and wait?

Old 24th Jun 2011, 18:30
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Moon
Posts: 271
Why to go for 737 or 320 when the market is already flooded zero hours pilots on those 2 types.
Go for 787.....huge demand low supply.
Johny Boy is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2011, 07:16
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Age: 30
Posts: 77
Most of the young aspirants here are in it for the money. Period. End of discussion.
If you really "loved to fly", you would have taken the more difficult but fair and transparent route: joined the Airforce/Navy/Coast Guard.You would have trained for free,gained valuable experience,lived honourably and served your country in the bargain.
@alouette3

Thanks a lot for the post!

I got into the Indian Coast Guard and was having a tough time getting my mom onboard with the idea till I showed her your post.
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 14:14
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 336
Nikhil,
Glad to be of service.Good Luck in the Coast Guard. Enjoy the time and make good use of it. Like everywhere else, there will be good days and bad.But,remember,decisions taken in a moment of light are not to be abandoned in the hours of darkness.Therein lies success.
Take care,
Alt3.
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 08:07
  #24 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 107
I started this thread 3 years ago, till today I couldn't find a pilot job and had no chance for an interview with an airline here in India. It's been over 5 years I completed my cpl and proved its useless. I have no money to spend very year to prepare for that first job which might never come....I have given up!!!! My license is now just a paper which ate lacs and lacs of rupees...

On the good side I've completed my degree and found a decent job. My next iam is to do masters....the time for me to forget aviation is nearing. Many of my friends also gave up aviation, some found jobs, some are studying and some helping their family business....I warn people who are about to spend huge money on flight training, it's almost impossible to find a job unless you are very rich with big contacts......good luck everyone and guys it's better to move one....life has more to offer!!!!
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 08:54
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 630
That's a shame to hear.
At the 2 and a half years mark, I packed my bags and moved to Africa for two years.
Flying is not all about being in the big tin straight away. If you had set your sights lower, I am certain you would have been able to find a flying job of some sort in 5 years.
lilflyboy262...2 is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2014, 09:48
  #26 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 107
I ve heard hundreds of times people saying why don't you go to Africa....we'll imagine if everyone done the same 1000s of pilots would flood Africa, GA in India is non existent only way is to go for the airlines. Here are no options...that's a fact. It's easier said than done and also I have no money to invest more to travel to Africa or elsewhere. I believe I have took the right decision to leave aviation and I will concentrate more on other field where you can make a living.
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 10:39
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Asia
Posts: 284
Vdaff,
I know your frustration, we all felt it once at least.
Lucky I have been pilot, and tried a A320.

So let me explain some things, you may feel better.

- pilot is not a real job with real skills. Those skills are not transferable.
How I know that ?
Because my ocntract has been ended last year, and I had to find another business to do. Glad I did.
but I noticed that when you only know how to fly a plane, you are stuked.
Let's face it, we do not know really to manage a team and set up projects, like in enginering. A pilot is just a "complex bus driver". You are an operator or technican, but not an engineer who has deeper knowledges.

- It is not as pink as you think... After few months flying airbus, I felt a bit boring though. Same routes, same clearance, same flights, same altitude, same strategies, same headings, same repetitives SOP's, same hotels etc etc.
Geting up at 3 am to start a flight at 5 or 6am, it is not funny at all.

- There is no futur...sadly, you would start in a LCC (like I did) and once you are there, the first thing you want, is to get out ! How ? you don't know.
yeah, you may go in the M.E, to get high cash but honestly I do it only for money...but living in ME, it is not my cup of tea.

So it's not a job but a bohemian lifestyle that become truly tough after 30 y/o.
It is a nice job for a single and young person. When you want a real life and normal life, with a minimum of stability, then god bless you. It is all about luck and Casino.

- You are piece of chess game for the airline.

You're right to not encourage youner aspirants. I do not even recomend this job to my own children.

but, move on Vdaff, don't cry here so long. I encourage to start another real career and fly for FUN.
When I was pilot, I did not have time for flying for FUN. because in Asia, there are no flying clubs most of the time. And anyway you don't have time.

become engineer, (you can work in aviation, railway, cars....) get some real skills, and rent a plane. You will be less frustrated and will find the love of flying.

Good luck!
Greenlights is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2014, 14:17
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: India
Age: 33
Posts: 26
Lilflyboy,

How does one go to Africa? Besides, one cant question the success ratio for all these pilots heading there, however, has any Indian ever managed it?

I only ask because all my research on the African forum indicates that an Indian Citizen isnt really as desired candidate in Africa.

I really want to try though and all advice is appreciated.


Stuck in a low time GA Job in India, and desperately looking for a way out.


Regards,

Flymore
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Old 19th Jun 2014, 05:25
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 630
For me, I came from New Zealand.
I got on a plane, arrived in Namibia, and started door knocking. I ended up landing a job in Botswana after having no luck in Namibia.
Africa is a massive place. If it doesn't work out in one country, try another.

Since you are saying that you are stuck in a GA job, I am assuming that you are flying already and have some hours. If you are above 1000hrs, then you shouldn't have an issue.

You can also try other options... for example... working in another field, and then for residency in a place like Canada. Once landed and permit in had, renew all your flying stuff and look for work flying.

I think the biggest issue that the original poster has is that he is looking at flying as a money making and prestige career. I'm sad to say that it is no longer the case.
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Old 19th Jun 2014, 06:44
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: zoo
Posts: 79
@lilflyboy262...2

Its great that you found success in Africa. Please excuse me for asking the following question though. Are you of caucasian descent? There is an uncomfortable truth that many people are shying away from saying on this forum. When you are of a certain background, there is a better chance of being able to bond with the people who matter.

I am not sure whether there is a bias against non-caucasians. I would like to believe there isn't any. But there is definitely a bias in favor of caucasians in the African job market, government regulations aside. Things are more uphill when you are not white.

My appologies if i have made anyone uncomfortable.
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Old 21st Jun 2014, 05:37
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 630
No problems at all. Yes, I am European.

I think it depends on exactly what race you are talking about. African pilots are finding no problems finding work in their home countries if they aren't approaching the companies expecting to be given a job.

I have yet to meet an Asian pilot there.

I did come across a few Indian pilots there. Not that many though. The biggest problem with the Indian pilots is that they have a bad reputation around the world.
They offer to fly for free, have the stigma of the faked licences, ego problems, generally won't stick around for extended periods on small aircraft and a few other bits and pieces.

Whether this is true or not, I don't really know, nor care on passing judgement. However this is the reputation that comes with Indian pilots and I am just saying it as it is!
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Old 21st Jun 2014, 08:46
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ubiquity
Posts: 363
I think what you are really trying to say is that you are happy to talk about things that you are really not so sure about or know nothing about
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Old 21st Jun 2014, 09:32
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 1,244
I think lilfly boy is very qualified to talk on the subject. I believe he worked in Afirca for a while. If living and working somewhere doesn't qualify you have a opinion then what does?
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Old 21st Jun 2014, 11:08
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ubiquity
Posts: 363
O so he has a spokesperson already

First, illflyboy makes a ridiculous comment about how African pilots find no problems finding jobs in their home countries if they don't approach the companies expecting to be given a job. I mean what sort of an idiot approaches any company not expecting a job.

He then makes an even more ridiculous assertion of never having met an Asian pilot.There goes YOUR reputation lilflyboy. Coz Indians are Asians you know.

After this lilflyboy suddenly becomes an expert on Indian pilots all over the world.He then wakes up and does a U - turn with a pathetic
'Whether this is true or not I don't really know'

And you are defending him.
Capt Apache is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2014, 11:08
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,676
I don't think there's many employers that have a problem with Indian pilots because they're Indian ... I think quite a few have a problem with the Indian licence though.

Bush flying is awesome and it should be compulsory experience for all young pilots, but if you guys are serious about improving the employability of Indian wannabes around the world, you should start by putting whatever pressure you can on your politicians to sort out the steaming pile of that is the DGCA
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Old 21st Jun 2014, 11:18
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 201
Billboard,

I think you will find that being Caucasian is in fact a negative for getting work in Airlines in Africa as an FO unless you're a local. Try getting in SAA as a white male applicant with thousands of hours... . nope . "Sorry we prefer previous disadvantaged." I won't support my home country's airline, as I don't want my family in the back of an aircraft where the flight crew are selected on that basis.

Now in bush aviation it may hold true that Indians aren't welcome. Possibly for the reasons given above in a previous post by flyboy. He should know.

mo
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Old 21st Jun 2014, 11:46
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ubiquity
Posts: 363
I don't think there's many employers that have a problem with Indian pilots because they're Indian ... I think quite a few have a problem with the Indian licence though.


Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways last week conducted road shows to a massive turnout of pilots and gave them a sneak peak into what lay in store for them if they were to join its crew. Sources said perks promised include a welcome bonus worth several months of salary.
A few months earlier, Emirates, the world's fastest growing carrier, is said to have hired 80 Airbus pilots from India, most of who are now serving notice period at their local employees.

Sources said the Jeddah-based Saudi Arabian Airlines has individually been writing to commanders offering them considerable salary increments. The recruitment plans of the financially muscled carriers may impact expansion of plans of local carriers.
Gulf carriers like Emirates and Etihad Airways dangle fat pay packets to bring Indian pilots on board - Economic Times
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Old 21st Jun 2014, 15:59
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: zoo
Posts: 79
They offer to fly for free, have the stigma of the faked licences, ego problems, generally won't stick around for extended periods on small aircraft and a few other bits and pieces.

Whether this is true or not, I don't really know, nor care on passing judgement. However this is the reputation that comes with Indian pilots and I am just saying it as it is!
So the person who posted this is not sure about the things he is saying about Indian pilots yet he goes on to propagate negative sentiments about Indians. That really shows a good ethical sense.

Similar negative sentiments used to be propagated about Chinese products till about a decade back. And now China has established itself as the world's factory. It is just that some people cannot handle competition and would not desist from spreading lies about their competitors.

They offer to fly for free
Say what!! Where did P2F start? Just to clarify, there is not a single airline in India that does P2F. Eaglejet and the like can get you P2F bases in Europe but not India. Why? Because there is a huge local demand for P2F in Europe. You guys have spoiled it for the rest of the world and when a few idiots from India have followed in your footsteps, you are trying to paint all Indians with the same brush? Come on, be fair!


faked licences
I think quite a few have a problem with the Indian licence though.
Firstly, padding of logbooks takes place all over the world. Secondly, a lot of the guys caught and penalized by the Indian DGCA had trained abroad. What about the guys who certified their logbooks? They were not Indians. Why did the foreign authorities fail to initiate action against the people who certified their logbooks?

Also an overwhelming majority of Indian pilots i have met who tried their luck in Africa trained for their CPLs in South Africa. Others carry an FAA license. So it seems the problem is not really with their license but with the color of their skin.

Try getting in SAA as a white male applicant with thousands of hours
I guess you are talking about the Black Economic Empowerment programmes. But why are you not talking about the horrible things that the whites have done in SA? Because of the forceful deprivation of the Blacks and Asians at the hands of the whites they never got the opportunity to get the same quality of education as the whites. Where was the talk of equal opportunity when the nationalist white governments used to spend 8-10 times as much on the education of white kids as they spent on the education of Black/Asian kids? It was a planned move to ensure that a form of apartheid continued to exist in the job market even after apartheid was formally abolished. BEE is there to ensure that such injustice does not take place.
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Old 21st Jun 2014, 23:21
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 630
At no point did I say that these things were true with Indian pilots.
I was telling you the reputation that precedes them in most countries around the world and why it is difficult for them to find employment.

I'm sorry if the reality hurts.

I find it hilarious how one can pull the race card in one direction but can't take it in the other?
lilflyboy262...2 is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2014, 23:43
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 630
Capt Apache.
I will pay special attention to your post.

First let me correct you on a few points.

A company is not expected to hire you. They are a business. They are there to make money. They are not there to provide an employment service and they do not HAVE to hire you. No matter if you are a national or not.
In my time in Africa, I met a lot of local pilots.
They seemed to be of the impression that because they have a licence, they should be hired.
One man in particular sticks in my mind.
He was sitting in our crew room while waiting for the chief pilot and ops manager. He sat down on the couch, spread himself out so no one else could sit there, changed the channel that was on the TV (that other pilots were watching) and then turned it up quite loud.
The people interviewing him turned up and he stopped them midway through and said "oh you can hire me, but only for the caravan, I will not fly the pistons"

First of all he didn't meet the insurance minimums for the aircraft, nor the seniority aspect.
Secondly, when does a new hire dictate where he goes in the company fleet?
Thirdly, he couldn't even explain how a turbine works!

My next question is a serious one. If you walked up to a person of Indian descent, and told him he was Asian, would he correct you and say he's Indian? I think he would.
I'm well aware of where the country is located geographically.

And to the waking up and doing a u-turn. When you choose to take my words out of context then yes they will have a different meaning.

One other factor I forgot to point out in most of Southern Africa, is the difficulty of the issue of work permits for Indian pilots.
This is at a governmental level and has nothing to do with the aviation companies.
Most companies can't be bothered going through the lengthy process that is involved in getting the work permit issued, when they can hire someone else with certainty of getting the permit, and in half the time.


In regards to paying to fly. I wasn't referring to those program's. I was referring to people offering to work for free flying C206s and other similar aircraft.
I will admit that I did see some of this in my time in Canada from Canadian citizens, but I did also see Indian citizens doing this.
This is the third continent that I have seen it happen on.
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