Moving to India or China with the wife? Advice needed.
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Moving to India or China with the wife? Advice needed.
ladies and Gentlemen,
My wife is looking at being made redundant due to her department moving abroad.
We are starting to think about moving too, but not to the ME (wife doesn't want to live in a Muslim country), so i am now orientating myself to India and China.
I do realize that both have vastly different cultures, but in termes of quality of living for my wife and me, which one would suit us best? We like nature, culture and my wife loves shopping obviously.
I'm currently a Captain on B737 and have seen various opportunities with local airlines. I do prefer Hainan in China and Jet Airways in India as they have connections to "home".
Could anybody assist us in getting a better picture what to expect if moving (not commuting) to one of these countries?
is flightcrew treated with respect?
Will my wife (blond most of the time but not stupid
) feel confortable and safe?
We would be renting out an appartment.
Thank you in advance,
despegue
My wife is looking at being made redundant due to her department moving abroad.
We are starting to think about moving too, but not to the ME (wife doesn't want to live in a Muslim country), so i am now orientating myself to India and China.
I do realize that both have vastly different cultures, but in termes of quality of living for my wife and me, which one would suit us best? We like nature, culture and my wife loves shopping obviously.
I'm currently a Captain on B737 and have seen various opportunities with local airlines. I do prefer Hainan in China and Jet Airways in India as they have connections to "home".
Could anybody assist us in getting a better picture what to expect if moving (not commuting) to one of these countries?
is flightcrew treated with respect?
Will my wife (blond most of the time but not stupid
) feel confortable and safe?We would be renting out an appartment.
Thank you in advance,
despegue
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If you go to India for the B737NG then I would suggest Jet Airways. They offer a pretty good pay package, housing allowance, travel benefits etc. Your time off is paid. Spicejet has no travel benefits, lousy HR department, no paid time off, and unstable roster. I think they are offering 3 year contracts. Many expats at Spicejet have left to join JetAirways. You can expect to make around $8500/month with another $2200 for housing. You will need the entire housing amount and more if you want a nice place in Mumbai or Delhi. Jet Airways base is mostly Delhi. Your wife should feel safe in India. Crews are respected but remember you are a contract pilot and don't expect long term employment. Once you are not needed, out you go. No seniority, no retirement benefits.
China seems to pay more and many westerners prefer China as it is much cleaner than India overall, and infrastructure is better. But you are in a communist country, remember that even as you see a McDonald's down the street. You can be fined and docked pay for hard landings and can be thrown in jail if you have an accident.
Best would be to make a short trip to India and China and see for yourself.
China seems to pay more and many westerners prefer China as it is much cleaner than India overall, and infrastructure is better. But you are in a communist country, remember that even as you see a McDonald's down the street. You can be fined and docked pay for hard landings and can be thrown in jail if you have an accident.
Best would be to make a short trip to India and China and see for yourself.
India vs China, old vs New
Flying in India is fun, working there is..... difficult.
Alot of the airports, and all of the infrastructure in India is old, but they are trying to upgrade it to newish.
They have some really new airports, Hyderabad and Bangalore, which are world class, but they are not the busy ones. Kolkata, Delhi and Mumbai are all old and they are trying to do them up to new standard.
The companies generally say they will look after you, but you must keep an eye on everything as they will try to cut corners (or pay) if you are not on top of things.
I had a great time working there, great crew, but it is a tough lifestyle.
A mate worked in India then went to China, and said it is heaps better, everything is new, company is straight up front, the cities are clean and organised, but he has encountered bad ATC, bad weather and all the usual problems. English is a much bigger problem in China, he is always flying with an interpreter in the jumpseat.
Definitely take a trip to both places and check it out. India will wear you down, so you need to be able to leave every so often to have a break.
Good luck
Alot of the airports, and all of the infrastructure in India is old, but they are trying to upgrade it to newish.
They have some really new airports, Hyderabad and Bangalore, which are world class, but they are not the busy ones. Kolkata, Delhi and Mumbai are all old and they are trying to do them up to new standard.
The companies generally say they will look after you, but you must keep an eye on everything as they will try to cut corners (or pay) if you are not on top of things.
I had a great time working there, great crew, but it is a tough lifestyle.
A mate worked in India then went to China, and said it is heaps better, everything is new, company is straight up front, the cities are clean and organised, but he has encountered bad ATC, bad weather and all the usual problems. English is a much bigger problem in China, he is always flying with an interpreter in the jumpseat.
Definitely take a trip to both places and check it out. India will wear you down, so you need to be able to leave every so often to have a break.
Good luck
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Moving to India or China with the wife? Advice needed.
despegue: An excellent post and a very important topic that is greatly underestimated. When we move to a foreign country to work the culture change, or culture shock if you wish, affects the wives more than us. Once we arrive at our place of work, whether it be a flight operations department or a maintenance hangar, we're in a familiar environment and at ease - relatively speaking. BUT, the moment our wives step outside the front door they're immediately in a very unfamiliar environment and have to learn fast. As we all know, some do this successfully while some falter. I once knew an American pilot in Asia who had his girlfriend with him onsite and she would sit at home during the day and cry.
If your wife is made of sterner stuff - go for it! My preference would be China over India. I can assure you that Hainan is a great place with a fantastic climate and ample nature, culture and shopping. Best of luck to you both.
If your wife is made of sterner stuff - go for it! My preference would be China over India. I can assure you that Hainan is a great place with a fantastic climate and ample nature, culture and shopping. Best of luck to you both.
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The above post is right on the money
If you come from a traditional western airline, you will have some adjusting to do. Here are some points.
1. English widely spoken in India. So communication here is much better once you can understand the accent. In China you will be single pilot, and have little to do with your FO.
2. Both places you will have relatively low time F/O's.
3. Indian schedules (rosters as they are called here) are usually 6 ON/1 OFF.
You can fly over 100 hrs a month legally here. You will feel drained after flying 6 straight days. The 1 day OFF you get, you are wasted.
4. Indian's by an large are hospitable and well mannered towards expats. If you are white you will get treated better in India and your wife will feel regal. India has a strange psyche about favoring the fairer skin. Just watch TV when you get here and you will see all the skin lightening creams on the market. While most of us are trying to get a tan, the Indians want to get rid of it
5. India is dirty. You will see stark contrasts here. High rise buildings/5 Start Hotels surrounded by slums. At Mumbai before T/O RWY 27 in the AM you can see from the left seat, all the slum dwellers taking a dump just as you begin to enter the runway. Beggars chasing the white man. If you have OCD and are very particular about cleanliness, don't come here. We had two pilot's who left after a short stint. They could not handle the environment.
6. In India you can hire cheap help. Your wife will love that once she gets over the initial shock.
7. Local pilots and F/A's are respectful and generally friendly and helpful.
8. Indian medical now required for expats. Was not required when I was in India. It's probably a little less strict than China.
9. If you can, take a leave of absence. Don't quit your job if you can. This way you can go back at some point.
10. In India, the the best outfit for expats is Jetairways followed by Indigo.
11. Lots to see in India but get used to poor roads, no public bathrooms and awful infrastructure.
If you come from a traditional western airline, you will have some adjusting to do. Here are some points.1. English widely spoken in India. So communication here is much better once you can understand the accent. In China you will be single pilot, and have little to do with your FO.
2. Both places you will have relatively low time F/O's.
3. Indian schedules (rosters as they are called here) are usually 6 ON/1 OFF.
You can fly over 100 hrs a month legally here. You will feel drained after flying 6 straight days. The 1 day OFF you get, you are wasted.
4. Indian's by an large are hospitable and well mannered towards expats. If you are white you will get treated better in India and your wife will feel regal. India has a strange psyche about favoring the fairer skin. Just watch TV when you get here and you will see all the skin lightening creams on the market. While most of us are trying to get a tan, the Indians want to get rid of it
5. India is dirty. You will see stark contrasts here. High rise buildings/5 Start Hotels surrounded by slums. At Mumbai before T/O RWY 27 in the AM you can see from the left seat, all the slum dwellers taking a dump just as you begin to enter the runway. Beggars chasing the white man. If you have OCD and are very particular about cleanliness, don't come here. We had two pilot's who left after a short stint. They could not handle the environment.
6. In India you can hire cheap help. Your wife will love that once she gets over the initial shock.
7. Local pilots and F/A's are respectful and generally friendly and helpful.
8. Indian medical now required for expats. Was not required when I was in India. It's probably a little less strict than China.
9. If you can, take a leave of absence. Don't quit your job if you can. This way you can go back at some point.
10. In India, the the best outfit for expats is Jetairways followed by Indigo.
11. Lots to see in India but get used to poor roads, no public bathrooms and awful infrastructure.
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I've only worked in India so I can comment on that. My wife lived with me as well. We lived in Delhi and then Mumbai for about 3 months each and it was fairly enjoyable however, a couple of Caveats for you.
1. Holding hands in public by a couple is OGLED, and can be quite uncomfortable. No problems if you have a same sex couple holding hands though. Don't ask me why?
2. If your wife wears a mini as mine did, then expect further ogling. Lol! Eyes everywhere!
3. While I
was there, a girl was slapped by a 'moral policewoman' in a park for making eyes at her male partner.???? Go figure.
Shopping, well your wife will love it especially around the Circus in Delhi. In fact you will probably like it too. Just don't give any money to the street kids or you will soon be surrounded by a hundred of them. An American mate did this and thank god he was 6 foot 5 as the little kids couldn't quite reach up to him. He did have to scramble though to get away.
The flying is fun if you like being number 22 to start etc. Slow down from about 200 miles. Controlling is average and I got my near miss from an IA A320 breaking its altitude. When I left there was 35 near misses and rising!
Yes India is dirty, and you can literally smell the place once your outflow valves open but I still enjoyed my time there amongst the locals.
Don't tell anyone how to operate their train set, because it is theirs.
Oh yeah, ride the tuk-tuks.
cheers
coco
1. Holding hands in public by a couple is OGLED, and can be quite uncomfortable. No problems if you have a same sex couple holding hands though. Don't ask me why?
2. If your wife wears a mini as mine did, then expect further ogling. Lol! Eyes everywhere!
3. While I
was there, a girl was slapped by a 'moral policewoman' in a park for making eyes at her male partner.???? Go figure.
Shopping, well your wife will love it especially around the Circus in Delhi. In fact you will probably like it too. Just don't give any money to the street kids or you will soon be surrounded by a hundred of them. An American mate did this and thank god he was 6 foot 5 as the little kids couldn't quite reach up to him. He did have to scramble though to get away.
The flying is fun if you like being number 22 to start etc. Slow down from about 200 miles. Controlling is average and I got my near miss from an IA A320 breaking its altitude. When I left there was 35 near misses and rising!
Yes India is dirty, and you can literally smell the place once your outflow valves open but I still enjoyed my time there amongst the locals.
Don't tell anyone how to operate their train set, because it is theirs.
Oh yeah, ride the tuk-tuks.
cheers
coco
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Indian Perspective
The 3 main points u have listed are NATURE, CULTURE and SHOPPING. I believe NATURAL beauty is there in every country, u just have to look in the right places. I guess understanding CULTURE in China might be a bit hard coz they dont have too many English speaking people. SHOPPING can be definitely very cheap in India and u get everything from the worst of the products to the best.
On the other hand China is definitely cleaner than India and better maintained. Its not like India is full of **** everywhere but has extremes, u will see a few very clean places and a few very dirty places(most of them are dirty if u compare it to the US).
Moral Policing incidents are rare but u are definitely expected to behave in public. Holding hands is never a problem and neither is kissing but a smooch in public will make u center of attention. Short dresses will catch attention in some places and be perfectly fine in others.
Foreigners are generally treated well here and yes Indians are obsessed about the white skin.
So it all comes down to compromising on a few things. If u can then India is a great place to come to.
On the other hand China is definitely cleaner than India and better maintained. Its not like India is full of **** everywhere but has extremes, u will see a few very clean places and a few very dirty places(most of them are dirty if u compare it to the US).
Moral Policing incidents are rare but u are definitely expected to behave in public. Holding hands is never a problem and neither is kissing but a smooch in public will make u center of attention. Short dresses will catch attention in some places and be perfectly fine in others.
Foreigners are generally treated well here and yes Indians are obsessed about the white skin.
So it all comes down to compromising on a few things. If u can then India is a great place to come to.
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Just had a chat with my wife to get her take on it..... afresh.
1. Dirty
2. Very expensive (to maintain an expat lifestyle ex. food, housing)
3. DO NOT consider Spice. You need the free tix to get a location break from India.
4. More work than you might be used to. She has to adapt to being by herself more. Can be alleviated by joining expat groups. Keeps my wife busy.
5. No language barrier. Most people she will interact with will be conversant in English.
6. Ogling, you get used to it and my wife asks/shouts for people to look away. We were in Agra and people were taking more pics of her than the Taj. We had to remind them that the monument is there not here.
7. Oh, and she says, no IKEA.
8. You will be treated well (white skin worshippers). That is ofcourse, assuming you and your spouse are infact white.
9. Guys have used the words, compromising/adjusting etc. Ofcourse it is a different country with diverse cultures but it does require REAL effort and an open mind.
PM for more info. Good luck.
1. Dirty
2. Very expensive (to maintain an expat lifestyle ex. food, housing)
3. DO NOT consider Spice. You need the free tix to get a location break from India.
4. More work than you might be used to. She has to adapt to being by herself more. Can be alleviated by joining expat groups. Keeps my wife busy.
5. No language barrier. Most people she will interact with will be conversant in English.
6. Ogling, you get used to it and my wife asks/shouts for people to look away. We were in Agra and people were taking more pics of her than the Taj. We had to remind them that the monument is there not here.
7. Oh, and she says, no IKEA.
8. You will be treated well (white skin worshippers). That is ofcourse, assuming you and your spouse are infact white.
9. Guys have used the words, compromising/adjusting etc. Ofcourse it is a different country with diverse cultures but it does require REAL effort and an open mind.
PM for more info. Good luck.
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av8r76 observations are pretty much spot on for India. Plus add to it:
-Lots of stupid issues, ie getting a sim card or internet connection isnt easy. Nor sometimes possible until your PAN card is issued.
-Renting, most places need 6 to 12 months rent as deposit!
-Your wife will need to be independent, as she is going to have to most likely navigation her own way to get to the store, take cabs, and deal with the differences involved in these seemingly simple tasks.
-If she likes traveling, India is pretty central to Europe and Asia so is great for trips if she wants some adventure.
-Closest Ikea is in Dubai, or Kuala Lumpur, a short 4 hr flight away!
-Lots of stupid issues, ie getting a sim card or internet connection isnt easy. Nor sometimes possible until your PAN card is issued.
-Renting, most places need 6 to 12 months rent as deposit!
-Your wife will need to be independent, as she is going to have to most likely navigation her own way to get to the store, take cabs, and deal with the differences involved in these seemingly simple tasks.
-If she likes traveling, India is pretty central to Europe and Asia so is great for trips if she wants some adventure.
-Closest Ikea is in Dubai, or Kuala Lumpur, a short 4 hr flight away!
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Thank you all for the valuable and honest advice and opinions!
As I currently have a job with a stable employer, this is not a near-future project and we will expand our search for a high quality of life "expat" country to "flee" to when/if needed.
Thanks again,
your collegue Despegue.
As I currently have a job with a stable employer, this is not a near-future project and we will expand our search for a high quality of life "expat" country to "flee" to when/if needed.
Thanks again,
your collegue Despegue.
