Contract agency rants and Kudos, Vietman, Korean, Asiana, Rishworth
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Different airlines in different countries do things way differently. It is all over the map. In some airlines you are an airline employee (to them), others you are a subcontractor. In general, if there is a contract agency involved, the airline pays them, and then they pay you, and keep some for themselves. The amount they keep is a closely guarded secret. In a few cases the contract agency just gets a one time "finders fee" and the airline employes you directly.
This is probably not the answer you were looking for. If you ask about a particular airline, somebody here will probably know the answer.
This is probably not the answer you were looking for. If you ask about a particular airline, somebody here will probably know the answer.
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Well I wouldn't believe everything you read on pprune, my recommendation is to contact real pilots on a contract that you are interested in, compare their contract to the one that you're being offered, do your homework.
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... As a contract pilot with KAL, my contract has NO signatories from Korean Air. The contract has my signature and the Agency's signature. It definitely helps keep KAL at a legal arms length from the Foreign pilots. Like the Chairman himself stated recently, Foreign pilots assist the company in managing the size of the workforce, ESPECIALLY if there is a need to downsize quickly!!
The agency takes a cut of the monthly paycheck, but I'm not sure how much.
Good Luck!
Kimcheejones
The agency takes a cut of the monthly paycheck, but I'm not sure how much.
Good Luck!
Kimcheejones
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at the and of the day they all make good money by having you under
contract, parc, rishworth, DPI, EPA.
contract, parc, rishworth, DPI, EPA.
Last edited by mach 84; 24th Oct 2011 at 09:05.
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ia1166 gave me the "In Brief" on Rishworth. As did a half a dozen other pilots at VAC. I like to listen to others who came before. Unfortunately I was to discover that everything they said - EVERYTHING - was true. Much to my financial detriment. I quit a job I loved because that was the only way to rid myself of business dealings with Rishworth.
Most contract agents get you the job and that is it. No service. There are 2 notable exceptions, and they happen to be the 2 biggest. Rishworth and Parc. Parc views you as a long term business partner. Rishworth views you as a pot of money, and to syphon off as much as they can without being sued in NZ court. They are all f#$%@ing lawyers, and they are better at the game than you, or me, are.
I will post some quotes from my past Rishworth contract tomorrow. Including the quote that says that I cannot divulge the contents of the contract to anyone. The contract is now long since null and void.
Being F@#$ing lawyers, maybe they will sue me, in NZ court?
Most contract agents get you the job and that is it. No service. There are 2 notable exceptions, and they happen to be the 2 biggest. Rishworth and Parc. Parc views you as a long term business partner. Rishworth views you as a pot of money, and to syphon off as much as they can without being sued in NZ court. They are all f#$%@ing lawyers, and they are better at the game than you, or me, are.
I will post some quotes from my past Rishworth contract tomorrow. Including the quote that says that I cannot divulge the contents of the contract to anyone. The contract is now long since null and void.
Being F@#$ing lawyers, maybe they will sue me, in NZ court?
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On the other side of my previous negative post, the "other" big agency I am quite happy with. They are not perfect, but they are professional, the contract is a plain language document not really favoring any single side, and I have seen them, at this job and my last (VAC) take really good care of the pilots they represent.
Case in point. At my current job, 3 of us were given a very bad "deal". 2 quit and one was fired, for mostly the same reason. I was the first to quit. I am still here for 1 reason, and one reason only: Parc understands Asia, and how to negotiate here. The other two pilots, one was with Rishworth, and the other Wasinc. Nothing against Wasinc as I haven't heard any "ripoff" stories that are rampant about Rishworth. But Parc saved my job, saved a "foreign pilot" for my airline, and, Parc's contract fee. The real winner, believe it or not, was the Chinese airline. They spend 80k-150k US on each of us before we ever fly as a Captain.
The owner of Wasinc, and their local rep, gave me a lot of good info when I first got to China, and I don't work for them. They are probably the most knowledgable about foreign pilot jobs here. They don't provide the same level of service here that Parc does, but I don't personally have any bad thing to say about them, and, in fact, thank them for the good info and advice.
Cheers
Case in point. At my current job, 3 of us were given a very bad "deal". 2 quit and one was fired, for mostly the same reason. I was the first to quit. I am still here for 1 reason, and one reason only: Parc understands Asia, and how to negotiate here. The other two pilots, one was with Rishworth, and the other Wasinc. Nothing against Wasinc as I haven't heard any "ripoff" stories that are rampant about Rishworth. But Parc saved my job, saved a "foreign pilot" for my airline, and, Parc's contract fee. The real winner, believe it or not, was the Chinese airline. They spend 80k-150k US on each of us before we ever fly as a Captain.
The owner of Wasinc, and their local rep, gave me a lot of good info when I first got to China, and I don't work for them. They are probably the most knowledgable about foreign pilot jobs here. They don't provide the same level of service here that Parc does, but I don't personally have any bad thing to say about them, and, in fact, thank them for the good info and advice.
Cheers
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So how does it work with the big guys such as Rishworth or Parc where you get a contract with them but then something else comes along fairly soon after. Can you just give your 2 weeks notice or is there some sort of legal bond like many airlines have.
Also can things such as pay or schedule be renegotiated after you have started?
Also can things such as pay or schedule be renegotiated after you have started?
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Most contracts that don't have a "bond" have an early termination clause, generally 1-3 months. Either party may terminate "early". Pay is generally not renegotiable until you renew your contract, unless you have some big brass ones and are willing to quit and the company really thinks you are the greatest pilot on earth. This hasn't happened to me yet. Ha ha.
The only time pay is generally negotiable is when you work for Rishworth. At some point, they will decide that you are receiving too much money, and will unilaterally decide to not give you as much as your contract states. I wouldn't call this negotiating, I would call this criminal. This HAS happened to me.
There are so many different contracts, the terms are all over the map. The one thing to remember is that you are your own "business". Negotiate carefully, and be careful what you wish for.
The only time pay is generally negotiable is when you work for Rishworth. At some point, they will decide that you are receiving too much money, and will unilaterally decide to not give you as much as your contract states. I wouldn't call this negotiating, I would call this criminal. This HAS happened to me.
There are so many different contracts, the terms are all over the map. The one thing to remember is that you are your own "business". Negotiate carefully, and be careful what you wish for.
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I interviewed with Turkish through Paramount. Turkish wasn't very well organized (and it turned out I wasn't qualified - the airline didn't figure this out until I arrived in Istanbul), but Paramount treated me well throughout the interview process.
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any idea about "aircrew global aviation inc" which hires for garud in indonesia. Anyone having experience with garud. Also have an offer from eaglejet for lionair. Which of the 2 airlines is better? People having their experience -please share
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Another thread on here suggests Garuda is stopping expat pilot contracts for the moment after union objections, eaglejet for Lionair is P2F, so not really a job , you pay them to work.
AFAIK , the only paid jobs available in Lionair are TRE's / TRI's /LTC's.
Had a colleague contracted with Garuda last year, sounded awful in every respect. From what I have heard Lionair is no better, do you REALLY want to fly in Indonesia ?
AFAIK , the only paid jobs available in Lionair are TRE's / TRI's /LTC's.
Had a colleague contracted with Garuda last year, sounded awful in every respect. From what I have heard Lionair is no better, do you REALLY want to fly in Indonesia ?
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Well considering the reqirements of all airlines, i thought it wise to build up hours on jet engine. If u see, some of my friends enrolled in gulfstream program in florida and today they have better future prospects.
and i wanted first hand experience who has flown in these airlines. As there r lot of rumours about them
and i wanted first hand experience who has flown in these airlines. As there r lot of rumours about them
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Not so fast
Hiring direct with a carrier is not very smart for an expat unless you speak the language and like being paid in the local currency. Parc pays me US dollars to any account in the world. They have been invaluable with their help. Plus they have all sorts of insurance for very reasonable costs. Yes you will be the first to go in a downturn. But right now that ain't happening.
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Just for curiosity, do contract pilots ever get upgraded to captain?
For example, if a pilot renews it's contract for the first or second time and has flown for the same company for at least 8-10 years, can he expect an upgrade to captain and maybe move to another aircraft?
For example, if a pilot renews it's contract for the first or second time and has flown for the same company for at least 8-10 years, can he expect an upgrade to captain and maybe move to another aircraft?
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@ Jerry Lee
It's happened in VAC (Vietnam Airlines) Whether you are with RAL or Parc or DPI. The soonest upgrade I heard was a year on the right seat, to the left of the same type (A320, that is). Most if not all, at least two years as FO before you get a chance for upgrade on the same type from right to left. Less than that for upgrade to bigger planes (320 to 330 as FO). Longer period for upgrade to wide body when you'r on the left seat. The company is expanding, that might be your clue why it has upgraded expats that fast.
It's happened in VAC (Vietnam Airlines) Whether you are with RAL or Parc or DPI. The soonest upgrade I heard was a year on the right seat, to the left of the same type (A320, that is). Most if not all, at least two years as FO before you get a chance for upgrade on the same type from right to left. Less than that for upgrade to bigger planes (320 to 330 as FO). Longer period for upgrade to wide body when you'r on the left seat. The company is expanding, that might be your clue why it has upgraded expats that fast.