Apples in Air India cockpit put 100 lives in danger
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Apples in Air India cockpit put 100 lives in danger
Would you trust your life with a pilot who is likely to confuse the sound of apples dropping on the floor inside the cockpit with engine trouble?
A woman pilot of Air India, the commander of the flight, made a dubious entry into aviation history when she did just that with nearly catastrophic results as the flight was taking off from Varanasi for Delhi.
The aircraft had started its takeoff roll when the apples tumbled out, making a thud.
On a Khajuraho-Varanasi-Delhi flight last month, with over 100 passengers on board, Capt. Kanwaljit Kaur braked suddenly as the aircraft was taking-off - it was taxiing at about 240 kmph. It caused all the tyres of the aircraft to burst.
The passengers had a miraculous escape. They were hurriedly offloaded at Varanasi and the flight was cancelled.
However, the airline was tightlipped on the issue and no details are available on whether any passenger was injured, or if the passengers had been compensated.
According to official sources, the national carrier had instituted a formal inquiry into the incident. Capt. Kaur is likely to be let off lightly and allowed to fly again, said a source.
However, the directorate general of civil aviation (DGCA), which has also decided to order an inquiry into the incident, can stop this.
DGCA chief E. K. Bharat Bhushan said the details would be sought from Air India. " It is a very serious incident and will be handled accordingly," Bhushan said.
According to sources, Capt. Kaur had bought the apples from Varanasi and placed them inside the cockpit of Air India's flight number IC-406 on February 11. Then, as the aircraft began taxiing for take-off, the apples started tumbling out one by one, making a dull sound as they dropped to the floor. The commander and her co-pilot, Capt. I. K. Singh, forgetting all about the apples, presumed the aircraft's compressor had either packed up or the engine had shut down and decided it was dangerous to fly.
Capt Kaur, apparently without checking the cockpit instruments, applied sudden brakes and brought the aircraft to a screeching halt.
Airline sources, who did not want to be named, said the plane was at VI speed, or the "decision speed" when a pilot can abort takeoff.
The next stage is V2 or 'initial airborne' when it is difficult to abort take off.
As the apples began rolling inside the cockpit, Capt Kaur reportedly rushed to put them in her bag or in some compartment as the aircraft was taking-off, sources said.
Capt K Kaur, when contacted over the phone, claimed the incident took place on February 7. When asked about the "falling apples" and aborted take-off of the Khajuraho-Varanasi-Delhi flight, she refused to comment.
"I am not authorised to speak to the media," she said.
Capt Subodh Nigam, director of operations at the airline, when asked if any action had been initiated against the pilot, refused to comment. "I am busy in a meeting. Contact the PR department," he said.
Air India's spokesperson Kamaljit Ratan said, "Passenger safety is of utmost importance to us. The incident will be looked into and if needed, action will be initiated." Aviation expert Capt A. Ranganathan said, " This is a serious incident and also a matter of indiscipline which Air India should look into. It is prohibited to carry loose objects inside the cockpit. This could have led to serious consequences.
The DGCA should inquire into the incident." Interestingly, Capt Kaur has a history of idiosyncratic behavior.
She had recently strayed into Pakistani airspaces and caused a huge embarrassment to Indian authorities. The incident had occurred on a Delhi-Amritsar scheduled flight when she flew into Pakistani airspace, revealed an Air India source.
A formal apology had to be tendered to the Pakistani authorities, the source said.
This is a second reported incident in recent days when a pilot's actions had seriously compromised flight safety.
About a month back another pilot, Capt. Parminder Gulati of the private carrier Indigo, had landed the aircraft on the nose landing gear, which is the weakest part of the plane. The incident had occurred on January 11. There were over 100 passengers on the flight.
An inquiry had later revealed that her last 15-20 landings were at an angle which increased the chances of the nose wheel touching first.
Aircraft should land on the main landing gear (MLG), and after the main wheels (at the rear of the aircraft) touch the runway, the speed of the aircraft is reduced. Only then should the nose landing gear (NLG - below the nose of the aircraft) should be lowered to touch the surface of the runway. This is the basic landing technique.
A woman pilot of Air India, the commander of the flight, made a dubious entry into aviation history when she did just that with nearly catastrophic results as the flight was taking off from Varanasi for Delhi.
The aircraft had started its takeoff roll when the apples tumbled out, making a thud.
On a Khajuraho-Varanasi-Delhi flight last month, with over 100 passengers on board, Capt. Kanwaljit Kaur braked suddenly as the aircraft was taking-off - it was taxiing at about 240 kmph. It caused all the tyres of the aircraft to burst.
The passengers had a miraculous escape. They were hurriedly offloaded at Varanasi and the flight was cancelled.
However, the airline was tightlipped on the issue and no details are available on whether any passenger was injured, or if the passengers had been compensated.
According to official sources, the national carrier had instituted a formal inquiry into the incident. Capt. Kaur is likely to be let off lightly and allowed to fly again, said a source.
However, the directorate general of civil aviation (DGCA), which has also decided to order an inquiry into the incident, can stop this.
DGCA chief E. K. Bharat Bhushan said the details would be sought from Air India. " It is a very serious incident and will be handled accordingly," Bhushan said.
According to sources, Capt. Kaur had bought the apples from Varanasi and placed them inside the cockpit of Air India's flight number IC-406 on February 11. Then, as the aircraft began taxiing for take-off, the apples started tumbling out one by one, making a dull sound as they dropped to the floor. The commander and her co-pilot, Capt. I. K. Singh, forgetting all about the apples, presumed the aircraft's compressor had either packed up or the engine had shut down and decided it was dangerous to fly.
Capt Kaur, apparently without checking the cockpit instruments, applied sudden brakes and brought the aircraft to a screeching halt.
Airline sources, who did not want to be named, said the plane was at VI speed, or the "decision speed" when a pilot can abort takeoff.
The next stage is V2 or 'initial airborne' when it is difficult to abort take off.
As the apples began rolling inside the cockpit, Capt Kaur reportedly rushed to put them in her bag or in some compartment as the aircraft was taking-off, sources said.
Capt K Kaur, when contacted over the phone, claimed the incident took place on February 7. When asked about the "falling apples" and aborted take-off of the Khajuraho-Varanasi-Delhi flight, she refused to comment.
"I am not authorised to speak to the media," she said.
Capt Subodh Nigam, director of operations at the airline, when asked if any action had been initiated against the pilot, refused to comment. "I am busy in a meeting. Contact the PR department," he said.
Air India's spokesperson Kamaljit Ratan said, "Passenger safety is of utmost importance to us. The incident will be looked into and if needed, action will be initiated." Aviation expert Capt A. Ranganathan said, " This is a serious incident and also a matter of indiscipline which Air India should look into. It is prohibited to carry loose objects inside the cockpit. This could have led to serious consequences.
The DGCA should inquire into the incident." Interestingly, Capt Kaur has a history of idiosyncratic behavior.
She had recently strayed into Pakistani airspaces and caused a huge embarrassment to Indian authorities. The incident had occurred on a Delhi-Amritsar scheduled flight when she flew into Pakistani airspace, revealed an Air India source.
A formal apology had to be tendered to the Pakistani authorities, the source said.
This is a second reported incident in recent days when a pilot's actions had seriously compromised flight safety.
About a month back another pilot, Capt. Parminder Gulati of the private carrier Indigo, had landed the aircraft on the nose landing gear, which is the weakest part of the plane. The incident had occurred on January 11. There were over 100 passengers on the flight.
An inquiry had later revealed that her last 15-20 landings were at an angle which increased the chances of the nose wheel touching first.
Aircraft should land on the main landing gear (MLG), and after the main wheels (at the rear of the aircraft) touch the runway, the speed of the aircraft is reduced. Only then should the nose landing gear (NLG - below the nose of the aircraft) should be lowered to touch the surface of the runway. This is the basic landing technique.
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Wow...great factual report...reminds me of the story about the EVA Captain who left a can of his much loved smoked almonds on the throttle console of his steed, apparently forgot they were there, and as the throttles advanced to take off thrust, the can of nuts jammed one throttle and it was unable to be properly set...Rejected takeoff resulted...The headline should have read: "Captain gets his nuts caught in throttle, rejects take off!" 
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How come AI has so many sardarnis and sardarjis as half baked pilots? Many of these half baked girl/boy wonders weaseled themselves into positions in Indian airlines through dodgy means...reminds me of the time when we trained Jet airways wonder duds. Half to 3 quarters of the trainees truly should never had been placed in the cockpit.
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But...
We don't need to be so fast in pushing the trigger against this poor pilot: just imagine for a second the extremely loud noise of apples falling on the floor and, before V1, an assumption that "the aircraft would not be safely airborne" and the decision to reject...
Let's be very honest and assume some of us would likely to take exactly the same action.
Let's be very honest and assume some of us would likely to take exactly the same action.
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I agree fullforward. Infact, according to the FAA, around 50% of high-speed rejected take-offs executed in the US in 2010 were unnecessary. They are emphasizing that as a training item for this year. No big deal as long as you don't kill people or bend metal. The press is crucifying the poor CA. CA decided to abort...and aborted safely with just tire (fuseplug) damage. Just what you expect in a high speed reject. Now...if she rejected after V1 (which she did not), then that is a huge issue. This has been blown way out of proportion.
As much as we guard against it, it can happen to any one of us in a moment of confusion.
As much as we guard against it, it can happen to any one of us in a moment of confusion.
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"an apple a day keeps the takeoffs away"
I guess its better to have aborted the TO thinking it was an engine problem....rather than continue the TO with an engine problem..... thinking it was apples
I guess its better to have aborted the TO thinking it was an engine problem....rather than continue the TO with an engine problem..... thinking it was apples
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Just curiosity, what would be the impact or damage on the tyre and braking system on applying heavy breaking at speed close to V1, and what would be the cost involved in fixing it?
Thanks
Thanks
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All the tires blew out? Anti skip operating properly would prevent this. She was beyond maximum brake energy causing brakes to heat up and roast the plugs. She was beyond V1..hope it doesnt get covered up.
Another inexperienced commander.
Another inexperienced commander.
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A lot of folks flying in command now who would not have made the grade a few years ago.
Its a matter of demand and supply.
Most "normal" people can make the grade with some experience.
But the airlines really need to draw the line at some minimum level of competence,or some poor unsuspecting pax will suffer the consequences.
There are a lot of very good young sardars and sardarnis flying...but like any sample of the population there are some who should not be allowed anywhere near the cockpit.
Its a matter of demand and supply.
Most "normal" people can make the grade with some experience.
But the airlines really need to draw the line at some minimum level of competence,or some poor unsuspecting pax will suffer the consequences.
There are a lot of very good young sardars and sardarnis flying...but like any sample of the population there are some who should not be allowed anywhere near the cockpit.
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Pilot's reactions were good. Cockpit discipline was not.
It is clear that this Lady is a good Pilot.
Why have apples in the cockpit is a different story. Speaks of discipline in Air India
Why have apples in the cockpit is a different story. Speaks of discipline in Air India
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Lets be honest guys, I think the bigger issue is why she was taxiing at 240 mph?? Or someone should have said v1 about 100 mph earlier! I love the Indian reporting, it gets more and more comical every day.
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Pilot's reactions were good. Cockpit discipline was not.
It is clear that this Lady is a good Pilot.
By india standards..yes she is good..most indian pilots i had flown with would not be able to accelerate to v1 and then bring the aircraft to the stop without going off the side of the runway.
I had to hold my breath everytime the tower instructed to roll out to the end. We would veer from one edge of the runway to the other almost taking out both sides of runway lights.
Now high speed reject just because of apples?? Heaven forbid a raindrop falling from the sky at V1.
It is clear that this Lady is a good Pilot.
By india standards..yes she is good..most indian pilots i had flown with would not be able to accelerate to v1 and then bring the aircraft to the stop without going off the side of the runway.
I had to hold my breath everytime the tower instructed to roll out to the end. We would veer from one edge of the runway to the other almost taking out both sides of runway lights.
Now high speed reject just because of apples?? Heaven forbid a raindrop falling from the sky at V1.
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Bonnie31 - that was absolutely a horrible post. Probably one of the worst that I have read (after figuring out the missing vowels went in) in a long time.
Calling someone WHITE FACE and then calling yourself Brown face only reflects very poorly on yourself. And I say this as a brown face. Sure, it takes some people longer than others to get their flying in order - and there are many factors that go in to it. But, to state something based on the color of your skin is just downright stupid. I agree with the other person 99% of the students are just in love with the fantasy of being a pilot - and would love to be on a shiny new jet. Where else in the world will you find someone with 250 hours on the right hand seat of jet?
Anyway good luck to you.
Calling someone WHITE FACE and then calling yourself Brown face only reflects very poorly on yourself. And I say this as a brown face. Sure, it takes some people longer than others to get their flying in order - and there are many factors that go in to it. But, to state something based on the color of your skin is just downright stupid. I agree with the other person 99% of the students are just in love with the fantasy of being a pilot - and would love to be on a shiny new jet. Where else in the world will you find someone with 250 hours on the right hand seat of jet?
Anyway good luck to you.
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@emb145gearslinger
If I were to generalize and stereotype like you did, I'd be calling you a fat, paranoid, redneck. But I'm better than that
Apples causing havoc in the cockpit? Now I've heard everything!
If I were to generalize and stereotype like you did, I'd be calling you a fat, paranoid, redneck. But I'm better than that
Apples causing havoc in the cockpit? Now I've heard everything!
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Originally Posted by emb145gearslinger
I don't get why 3rd world countries are so eager to hire inexperienced useless pilots from their own country versus much more qualified foreign pilots. I guess they think people want to see their brown faces up front. I have flown with many Indian pilots. Most of them are pretty worthless. 99% of them are in love with the fantasy of being a pilot instead of being a good pilot. I watched as so many of them came to the U.S and wasted their parents money as they partied instead of studying. News flash Apu, it shouldn't take 1 1/2 years to do a CPL if you are a full time student. It should be 6 months or 1 year if you are really stupid.
I am shocked it is not raining aluminum more often in India.
I am shocked it is not raining aluminum more often in India.
Oh we do have some of you white faces working for airlines in India. I'm sorry you couldn't make the cut? Guess you are not experienced enough
First of all, you need to stop the racial slur. Stop talking **** about people from other countries. Doing that you are only stereotyping yourself.
Looking at the rest of your post, it is obvious that you must be an instructor. So when you say you have flown with many Indian pilots, i assume you were the instructor. And what an ideal one you are, saying that they are worthless.
Sure there are some who do not have the aptitude to be a pilot at all and yet take up flying. But that does not mean you generalize and make broad statements.
About the fantasy of being a pilot, tell me one thing...
Did you as a student had that fantasy or not?
Coming to the US, yes i agree it's something we students are excited about. Having your friends along, staying together is fun. HELL YEAH we partied! Something bothering you friend? We spent OUR father's money not yours.
Regarding your comments on time taken to complete CPL, you should know it really depends from person to person and from school to school plus various other factors.
Many students did complete their CPL within normal time frames. A few in fact got done in less than 6 months. Those over-partying people might have brought it upon themselves for their delayed training period but there are a LOT more sincere ones who suffered because of the economic meltdown worldwide and especially in US. If the economy of your country goes haywire, shutting down schools, causing students to go homeless, having thousands of dollars of money robbed off of them, leaving them helpless...what else do you expect?
So NEWS FLASH JOE
Airlines here are hiring. Assuming your experience you should apply. Who knows you might end up working for a "3rd world airline" someday.
and here something you should check when you say about the aluminum rain. "experienced foreign pilot"
Mangalore air crash: No distress signal from pilot before crash, say sources
According to the enquiry report submitted by Civil Aviation Ministry, Govt. of India it has been claimed that the pilot Captain Zlatko Glusica slept for over 90 minutes during the flight. The Air India Express IC 812 Boeing 737-800 carrying 166 people, including the crew, from Dubai crashed while negotiating the tricky landing at Mangalore city's "table-top" airport overlooking a ravine. The American National Transportation Safety Board says it is the first instance of snoring recorded on a Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR)
Last edited by A69; 7th Mar 2011 at 07:28.