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What is the situation in KAL

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What is the situation in KAL

Old 23rd Jul 2010, 12:23
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Some recent foreign 737 FOs completed all ground, sim and line training in 10 weeks. No breaks to return home while on course and minimal time off between sessions while in Seoul.

FYI

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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 13:51
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Fair enough, thank you very much for the info.

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Old 29th Jul 2010, 12:12
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It seems that you need to have 3 months remaining validity on your medical after your ground training no need to mention your TR.

I guess that you are not eligible until you fullfil that requirement ?

Anyone going for the B737NG F/O position ?

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Old 29th Jul 2010, 22:58
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Sikh mariner jailed in oil spill incident in Korea

Well, it is indeed scary. In the 1990's a Canadian expat had to run for his life after a prang in CJU triggered by a Korean boy wonder. It was such a stressful episode that he never really recovered...developed cancer and passed on sometime ago. I bailed out of Korea when I was made aware of the inner workings of the Korean legal processes.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 04:47
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Yeh but Chuck it is argueable the kid mightve been in the
right as I recall, but I dont think we ever got the full truth.

....the Korean legal processes
Is it true you will cop a manslaughter charge if a pax is killed
dead by sudden severe turbulance with the seat belt switch
off?
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 05:21
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I'll certainly not be too quick in pointing fingers for the CJU crash. If you go through the official CVR transcript, it was the "local boy" that had been trying to get the expat Capt to go around.
But the point mentioned on the punitive culture is 100% true. I'm also inclined to believe that if there's any chance that they could tweak an investigation process, they will not hesitate to put majority of the blame onto the expat since it's politically correct for them to do so.
And yes, the aviation act in Korea does stipulate that certain circumstances will see that the PIC is punishable by DEATH. New joiners, read your AA carefully before your airlaw exam and pretty darn sure you won't dispute this.
Some of the latest update we heard on line was guys who got in are bailing out just prior to commencement of the course. Wise move if you're unsure of what you really want and if you have a stable job. It's too much risk consider the fact that training department is not aligned with management as far as expat hiring is concerned. Be prepared for some real trying times.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 23:42
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if a pax is killed dead
Is there any other way of ending up if one is killed?
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Old 31st Jul 2010, 22:21
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Thumbs up

Anyone have a sample schedule for a 747-400 Expat F/O? Anyone an Expat preferably an American who has gone through the 400 program recently? Is the training as bad as everyone posts on these threads? Are you really targeted because you are not Korean while in training?

The more recent the stories the better. I have read the stories from the past and from friends of friends etc. who don't really work at KAL or are on other fleets

I have been offered a job at KAL and I am furloughed from UPS I have not been able to get a non flying job yet and most flying companies hiring in the USA won't hire any "Brown Stains" unless we resign our seniority from UPS which I will not do. The commuting contract and not having to give up recall rights is the attraction to KAL versus other airlines.

Thanks for any specific info to the 747-400 program at KAL!

Brownexpat
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Old 31st Jul 2010, 23:25
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I'm in Seoul right now (long layover). I've never been here before. There's often some truth to what you read here on Pprune, but most of the stuff - especially the negative stuff - needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I was walking around the airport for a couple of hours yesterday, and saw a lot of expat captains wearing KAL uniforms. The training is probably a cast-iron b*t*h, and the selection and testing process may be unfairly arbitrary, but a lot of folks are making it through and have jobs. It's probably worth a try.

Last edited by Rotorhead1026; 1st Aug 2010 at 00:34.
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Old 1st Aug 2010, 20:12
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Well the KAL expats are all attracted by that " great commuting contract ", free meal coupons, business class travel yada,yada,yada.

Indian sea captains too raved about the great shopping, the superfast internet, super nice electronic thingies in Korea until thee master of the Hebei Two Captain Chawla was thrown in the slammer through no fault of his. Now everyone in Mother India is quite wary about skippering any vessels through the west sea, south sea and east sea ( Sea of Japan? sic! ) of that kimchi land.
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Old 3rd Aug 2010, 20:16
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Walking thru

Rotorhead: Have you spoken to them ? Did they tell you how many failed when they did the training? Just last week a very expirienced Skipper got screwed again. There are Expats for sure but when 20 guys fail out of 25 ??? Be warned to take the risk....It is high at the moment, better stay where you are. If you have no job you have nothing to loose when you try it, at least you get some Bucks during the time you go thru the mill.

Fly safe and land happy

NG
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Old 3rd Aug 2010, 21:09
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I am with Kal on the 777. It is a job, they pay me money to do it and I sigh hugely on the way home on the freedom flight each month. You will do a hard months work in under 18 days. The rest between flights is minimal by necessity but you do get good rest on lay overs and on board the aircraft. Don't risk your career for the sake of working for Kal, but if you really need a job, or job change then it is an ok place to be for a while. The people are fine generally once you have checked out, but don't expect to be best mates with everyone you fly with.
The 737 is the junior fleet for the locals so crews are mainly younger and obviously also less experienced.
Most of the political assassinations during the interview sim or line training are aimed at expat Captains. Very few of the assassins can perform to the same level that we are expected to achieve but that wont stop them from lying and falsifying your results to make themselves feel better. I don't think there is a korean word for professionalism, in this regard.
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 08:18
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"most of the political assassinations during the interview sim or line training are aimed at expat Captains "
what is this for?
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 08:59
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Do we have to understand that it's easier for F/O's to pass ?

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Old 8th Aug 2010, 12:22
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My reference to politics, is just that! There are some factions within the pilot group, union backed or not and ex pilots who now work as government inspectors that try to make a point or influence the direction of the company by failing large numbers of foreign pilots. What that point is, nobody but they really has any clue.
My thoughts:
Direct entry Foreign Captain employment was implemented during the bad days when so many accidents occurred that the airline was about to be banned from operating in some countries and they couldn't get insurance for the aircraft until they promised to employ foreign pilots and change the way they operated. The fact that we are still being employed is viewed by some as an insult to them. So the more of us they fail the better they feel and the bigger the case they can present for us not being needed. Again so they feel better about themselves. I don't think that foreign pilots are necessarily better but generally we have been trained much differently and that is why we were and probably are still required.
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Old 11th Aug 2010, 09:14
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Anyone invited for the next screening on the B737NG ?

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Old 22nd Aug 2010, 12:51
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Question

The rumour is…in the most cases you will not see Korean pilots (Captains) operating, handling the aircraft. Even for the double or three pilots crews foreign Captain is not invited to be in a cockpit (Safety Pilot policy) for T/O or Landings. You can and will see only F/Os. However in the opposite situation they (Korean Captains) are sitting in on a jump seat when foreign Captain is in control. SIM ride is the same…

The answers is:
A. True
B. False
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Old 22nd Aug 2010, 13:29
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Was told by someone that the alteon sim instructors/checkers taught that the company only accepts the decrab during flare method in crosswind landings. Botch that and you're a goner!


Went through the selection process recently and must state that the above statement is true!!!! After 18 years of flying the 737 classic and NG I had never flown a crosswind this way and on my 1st attempt did it the old fashion way (cause I am old fashion) and gotter on the ground at the designated spot and heard the famous "I have the simulator, Captain what was that, we do not fly the NG that way ............." So being the nice guy that I am I asked the instructor "have you EVER flown the airplane???? You do know that there is more than one way to do this right? " He told me that I had one more attempt at the maneuver and if I did not do it their way then he could not recommend me to move forward in the selection process (even though the rest of the 1:30 min ride went fine with no repeats)

So now I am through the process but I have to ask myself can I take that kind of 'instruction' where INSTRUCTION is critical and not constructive? Where there is a true adversarial relationship between, not management and the pilots but the instructors, pilots and pilots. I have worked in Saudi Arabia and India with no problem. I truly believe, they at least respected your experience. I do not believe that to be the case in KAL. I believe that it is truly a MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY mentality and I am not good at that kind of situation.

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