VOR Holdings SCAM China Cargo
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VOR Holdings SCAM China Cargo
Are you thinking about this contract, oh sorry "Agreement" take note?
Being offered a Line Captains Position B777?
Anywhere but in China, a LIne Captain is a run-of-the-mill PIC.
Not here in China!
Ask the question to VOR- will I be PIC or SPIC on my Licence?
SPIC = SIC in China and everywhere else.
You will always sit in the RHS!
You will never be able to log PIC hours.
When you do your CAAC License Checkride in the sim, then the surprise comes - why is the SPIC box ticked off by the TRE?!
Seems the CAAC allows this and SPIC = CP (Co Pilot NOT Captain).
Answer - their Union does not allow you to ever be PIC here in China.
Another reason. Probably the Chinese PIC does not hold ICAO 4 English, so the CAAC requires min. two Crew Members Typed/Rated and current to be in the Cockpit that hold ICAO 4 each.
So the PIC is non-ICAO 4, the other two SIC's hold ICAO 4. Legal to fly!
Being offered a Line Captains Position B777?
Anywhere but in China, a LIne Captain is a run-of-the-mill PIC.
Not here in China!
Ask the question to VOR- will I be PIC or SPIC on my Licence?
SPIC = SIC in China and everywhere else.
You will always sit in the RHS!
You will never be able to log PIC hours.
When you do your CAAC License Checkride in the sim, then the surprise comes - why is the SPIC box ticked off by the TRE?!
Seems the CAAC allows this and SPIC = CP (Co Pilot NOT Captain).
Answer - their Union does not allow you to ever be PIC here in China.
Another reason. Probably the Chinese PIC does not hold ICAO 4 English, so the CAAC requires min. two Crew Members Typed/Rated and current to be in the Cockpit that hold ICAO 4 each.
So the PIC is non-ICAO 4, the other two SIC's hold ICAO 4. Legal to fly!
Last edited by Brookfield Abused; 10th Jul 2010 at 01:43.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: 104E
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VOR Holdings SCAM China Cargo
Hello,
Good data...pilots be careful of what you are signing...! China is a strange place and you can really get into a hot box and be locked into a bad position and waist months of time. To end up looking at a dead end.
I know that China Aviation recruitment/VOR holdings isall about themselves. I personally know of 2 incidents where VOR through the pilots under the bus,.....FACT..!!
I do know other pilots under VOR that dont trust them, but do get paid on time. But if you get in trouble, you will have little support.
Good Luck,
On Final
Good data...pilots be careful of what you are signing...! China is a strange place and you can really get into a hot box and be locked into a bad position and waist months of time. To end up looking at a dead end.
I know that China Aviation recruitment/VOR holdings isall about themselves. I personally know of 2 incidents where VOR through the pilots under the bus,.....FACT..!!
I do know other pilots under VOR that dont trust them, but do get paid on time. But if you get in trouble, you will have little support.
Good Luck,
On Final
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle KBFI
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will admit, i did not get warm, fuzzy feeling when dealing with VOR.
But does the "Type of Check" column on the license actually get filled out as "SPIC"?
I thought the choice was only (PC/PT as appropriate), then PIC or SIC.
So are you getting a PIC check, to be one of the 2 PICs needed on longhaul flights but the COMPANY is only allowing you to be SIC, and not sign the dispatch release, etc? Sure, you can't log the hours, but it does keep you current and qualified for the next job.
But does the "Type of Check" column on the license actually get filled out as "SPIC"?
I thought the choice was only (PC/PT as appropriate), then PIC or SIC.
So are you getting a PIC check, to be one of the 2 PICs needed on longhaul flights but the COMPANY is only allowing you to be SIC, and not sign the dispatch release, etc? Sure, you can't log the hours, but it does keep you current and qualified for the next job.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ... on an island!
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
... being not qualified for the next job is really something you want to avoid especially in China! But the SPIC is not the answer that uncle Ted said! You probably want to check with him direct and post some feed-back on it! thanks
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ... on an island!
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks DW
I guess the agency that is really telling what is going on is Top Fly
These guys have a better picture on the Air China Cargo mambo-jumbo deal compare to what Ted has.
I guess the agency that is really telling what is going on is Top Fly
These guys have a better picture on the Air China Cargo mambo-jumbo deal compare to what Ted has.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: US
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vor Holding
In my short experience dealing with them it appears that they first want you to give them exclusive right of representation in return to a big nothing !
( whether you meet the airline's qualification or not)
Makes me wonder if Air China cargo are aware of their conduct. ( kind of reflects badly on them)
"Used car sales people " ( no offense to those...)
( whether you meet the airline's qualification or not)
Makes me wonder if Air China cargo are aware of their conduct. ( kind of reflects badly on them)
"Used car sales people " ( no offense to those...)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: where the jobs are
Age: 53
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gentlemen,
I've not had any dealings with VOR/China Recruitment so thanks for the heads-up. They should be more forthcoming. I don't know if any of you had previous widebody PIC time (a requirement by the CAAC for a left-seat PIC position with any Chinese operator) but surely they must know that and to inform the pilot during the application process. So either VOR are ignorant of the CAAC regs or just plain untrustworthy.
I've not had any dealings with VOR/China Recruitment so thanks for the heads-up. They should be more forthcoming. I don't know if any of you had previous widebody PIC time (a requirement by the CAAC for a left-seat PIC position with any Chinese operator) but surely they must know that and to inform the pilot during the application process. So either VOR are ignorant of the CAAC regs or just plain untrustworthy.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
previous widebody PIC time (a requirement by the CAAC for a left-seat PIC position with any Chinese operator)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C'mon guys, FFS, do a bit of research on this website. Do you really think the people who say flying in China is great ( probably work for VOR or similar ) are right and the other 95% are wrong ?
Sure there are whingers, and people who will never be happy, but you are getting guys joining this site just to get their story across to hopefully save others making the same mistake.
- They will happily lie to your face
- The country is a toilet, the air, water and soil have been destroyed by these ecological terrorists.
- The money is never as good as advertised and even when it is they will fine you for taxiing around a corner 2 kts too fast, to get it back.
- You will be a second class citizen in china, don't kid yourself !
Is this really what you want ?
Sure there are whingers, and people who will never be happy, but you are getting guys joining this site just to get their story across to hopefully save others making the same mistake.
- They will happily lie to your face
- The country is a toilet, the air, water and soil have been destroyed by these ecological terrorists.
- The money is never as good as advertised and even when it is they will fine you for taxiing around a corner 2 kts too fast, to get it back.
- You will be a second class citizen in china, don't kid yourself !
Is this really what you want ?
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: where the jobs are
Age: 53
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dominican, of course there are foreign captains with previous widebody experience joining on the left-seat. How do you think airlines like Jade, Great Wall, Yangtze River, etc get their captains when they first started from scratch? Bear in mind it's almost impossible for the local Chinese pilots to simply resign to join another Chinese carrier.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Evidently Jav8r, thank you for stating the obvious. I'm just trying to filtrate the noise from the useful information and determine what is this thread all about? Is it about VOR holdings being a mediocre agency? (that is the reputation they seem to have) Is it about this particular gig not being any good? (it will be nice to hear from somebody who is actually flying under this contract) You do get a lot of posts on PPRUNE from fellow pilots with helpful "warnings" that are really blanket statements from individuals who A) Didn't pass the interview B) failed during training or C) are frustrated because here is another job they do not qualify for.
I'm just curious as to why with so many jobs available right now for individuals who actually qualify, Why would anybody pull a stunt like this? seems to me that there is more to the story
I'm just curious as to why with so many jobs available right now for individuals who actually qualify, Why would anybody pull a stunt like this? seems to me that there is more to the story
