Expat pilots : Are they really safe for Indian Aviation ?
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I'm sorry buddy but the exact connotation of "expat" as that author is using it, means "anybody who is not indian", and you know it and I know it too. He's too afraid to use specific words like "Americans" or "Australians" or "Europeans" or "Pakistanis" or whoever, so he hides behind the generic word "expat" and everyone knows what he means and nods their head wisely while they read their morning copy of the Hindu.
Well mate in my country we have a word which defines slagging off at entire groups of people / sections of society based on their global origin ... and we have laws against people writing that kind of garbage in newspapers ... you can stick your head in your sand and call it whatever you want mate.
And yep me and my fellow countrymen and most of the rest of the world over the last multiple decades, have given plenty of money to charities like world vision to try and help your suffering and starving countrymen, never seems to make the problem any better though. Wonder where all that money goes
I don't want this to become a generic argument about poverty though - I just included it in my post, to point out that if I was an average Indian thinking of things to write letters to my MP about to try and improve the standard of my society, I would probably have more important things on my mind than kicking out the evil and unsafe "expat" airline captains.
Well mate in my country we have a word which defines slagging off at entire groups of people / sections of society based on their global origin ... and we have laws against people writing that kind of garbage in newspapers ... you can stick your head in your sand and call it whatever you want mate.
And yep me and my fellow countrymen and most of the rest of the world over the last multiple decades, have given plenty of money to charities like world vision to try and help your suffering and starving countrymen, never seems to make the problem any better though. Wonder where all that money goes
I don't want this to become a generic argument about poverty though - I just included it in my post, to point out that if I was an average Indian thinking of things to write letters to my MP about to try and improve the standard of my society, I would probably have more important things on my mind than kicking out the evil and unsafe "expat" airline captains.
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I'm sorry buddy but the exact connotation of "expat" as that author is using it, means "anybody who is not indian", and you know it and I know it too. He's too afraid to use specific words like "Americans" or "Australians" or "Europeans" or "Pakistanis" or whoever, so he hides behind the generic word "expat" and everyone knows what he means and nods their head wisely while they read their morning copy of the Hindu.
Everyone is free to interpret what he wants of the words, and its a part of freedom of opinion which originates from freedom of speech. But reading 'expats' as 'racist' and claiming the author to be racist is unfair to author.
Why do you think he is afraid of using "American", "OZ", "Pakisani"?
Why don't you think that those are the words which don't explain what he means.
The article has raised a question. Answer it if you can, don't come shouting at the author. I am sure if you write well enough Hindu will publish your comments.
Now with single stroke of generosity you have labeled every Hindu (the newspaper, and not the religions) reader as racist, because in your opinion they all share the same interpretation of word 'expat' as you did for the purpose of this article.
I really don't know which country you belong to, and I don't want to know either, that will save me from dwelling into history.
My stand was simple, if you ever saw a kid defecating by the public road, and if you did not stop to do any thing in your own personal capacity then you cannot blame any one else in the world for this, you are part of it.
And just for your information the average Indian, doesn't write letters to his MP, he has more urgent things to do, like earning a livelihood, like arranging a lavatory. Once he has managed these things he will go and write letters to MPs.
Now some of them are writing letters to MPs, and articles in news papers to further their own interests in phasing out expats. They have learnt it. But you don't have moral authority to tell them about what to write in those letters.
And the kids you see defecating by the roadside will be in few decades flying the 787s, and thats not an exaggeration I have seen it happen with 737s, they don't need any charity.
And if the national laws had not protected local labor more than 30% percent of worlds pilot will come from India.
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Contravention of rule 12 - Flying into prohibited area
kindly read an article,it is a bit twisted by the newspaper but I am sure message is conveyed.
Private aircraft strayed 25 nautical miles over the Arabian Sea
Mumbai radar controllers failed to check errant plane
Mumbai, June 5, DH News Service:
Days before the Mangalore air crash, radar controllers at Mumbai airport misguided a private, single-engine Caravan aircraft letting it stray 25 nautical miles over the Arabian Sea before it flew over the sensitive no-fly zone.
According to DGCA sources, the incident took place on May 4 when, after flying over the sea “two times more than the gliding distance” around 8:45 pm, the aircraft, which was being piloted by Capt Klaus Eckhardt, a foreign national, who had along an Indian co-pilot, it flew over the Parsi “Cone of Silence” (Malabar Hills), the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC), Raj Bhavan, other sensitive installations, and VIP residential areas.
It was when the radar controllers realised that the aircraft, owned by the Karnataka-based mining company MSPL Ltd, five of whose officials were onboard, was flying un-noticed in the prohibited area that alarm bells went off. The aircraft was then asked to return to its assigned flight path.
Complaint
An inquiry was initiated on May 6 after co-pilot Capt Siddharth Sharan sent an e-mail complaint to DGCA joint director general A K Chopra and followed it up by writing a letter to Director General of Civil Aviation S N A Zaidi. The inquiry is being headed by an officer of the rank of deputy director stationed in Mumbai.
In his complaint, filed as part of “voluntary report of contravention of Rule 12 of Aircraft Rules, 1937 (flying into prohibited area),” Capt Sharan revealed that the flight took off from Koppal to Mumbai near which approach radar vectored the aircraft for approach for landing on runway 14.
His complaint further said: “Capt Eckhardt has forcibly flown over prohibited area overhead…even after I warned him twice”. The pilot “also went 25 nautical miles away from land. This is a display of utter disregard to rules of air and safety of passengers as Cessna Grand Caravan is supposed to remain within the gliding distance at all times.”
Capt Sharan claimed that the pilot “prevented crew from operating radio and give May Day Call” in accordance with laid down rules. The aircraft not only had no cockpit voice recorder but had no sea survival equipment either.
A May Day Call is an internationally-recognised distress signal used in voice procedure radio communications. A May Day situation might arise when a vessel or aircraft is in grave and imminent danger and requires immediate assistance.
Claiming that the incident “could have been avoided”, Capt Sharan’s complaint indicated that the radar controllers could have been more alert.
What has caused consternation is not just that the radar controllers misguided the aircraft and allowed it to violate the no-fly zone, but that the plane ran the risk of straying further than its gliding distance over the sea because in the event of an engine failure it could have crashed with disastrous consequences for the five passengers and two crew members.
Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) sources, however, said that despite Capt Sharan’s written complaint the enquiry has been progressing at a slow pace, giving rise to suspicions that moves are afoot to deflect the blame from the radar controllers.
THE EX-PAT PILOT HAS ACCEPTED HIS MISTAKE / BLUNDER AFTER HE WAS SHOWN PICTURES OF AIRCRAFT FLYING OVER PROHIBITED AREA.
Private aircraft strayed 25 nautical miles over the Arabian Sea
Mumbai radar controllers failed to check errant plane
Mumbai, June 5, DH News Service:
Days before the Mangalore air crash, radar controllers at Mumbai airport misguided a private, single-engine Caravan aircraft letting it stray 25 nautical miles over the Arabian Sea before it flew over the sensitive no-fly zone.
According to DGCA sources, the incident took place on May 4 when, after flying over the sea “two times more than the gliding distance” around 8:45 pm, the aircraft, which was being piloted by Capt Klaus Eckhardt, a foreign national, who had along an Indian co-pilot, it flew over the Parsi “Cone of Silence” (Malabar Hills), the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC), Raj Bhavan, other sensitive installations, and VIP residential areas.
It was when the radar controllers realised that the aircraft, owned by the Karnataka-based mining company MSPL Ltd, five of whose officials were onboard, was flying un-noticed in the prohibited area that alarm bells went off. The aircraft was then asked to return to its assigned flight path.
Complaint
An inquiry was initiated on May 6 after co-pilot Capt Siddharth Sharan sent an e-mail complaint to DGCA joint director general A K Chopra and followed it up by writing a letter to Director General of Civil Aviation S N A Zaidi. The inquiry is being headed by an officer of the rank of deputy director stationed in Mumbai.
In his complaint, filed as part of “voluntary report of contravention of Rule 12 of Aircraft Rules, 1937 (flying into prohibited area),” Capt Sharan revealed that the flight took off from Koppal to Mumbai near which approach radar vectored the aircraft for approach for landing on runway 14.
His complaint further said: “Capt Eckhardt has forcibly flown over prohibited area overhead…even after I warned him twice”. The pilot “also went 25 nautical miles away from land. This is a display of utter disregard to rules of air and safety of passengers as Cessna Grand Caravan is supposed to remain within the gliding distance at all times.”
Capt Sharan claimed that the pilot “prevented crew from operating radio and give May Day Call” in accordance with laid down rules. The aircraft not only had no cockpit voice recorder but had no sea survival equipment either.
A May Day Call is an internationally-recognised distress signal used in voice procedure radio communications. A May Day situation might arise when a vessel or aircraft is in grave and imminent danger and requires immediate assistance.
Claiming that the incident “could have been avoided”, Capt Sharan’s complaint indicated that the radar controllers could have been more alert.
What has caused consternation is not just that the radar controllers misguided the aircraft and allowed it to violate the no-fly zone, but that the plane ran the risk of straying further than its gliding distance over the sea because in the event of an engine failure it could have crashed with disastrous consequences for the five passengers and two crew members.
Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) sources, however, said that despite Capt Sharan’s written complaint the enquiry has been progressing at a slow pace, giving rise to suspicions that moves are afoot to deflect the blame from the radar controllers.
THE EX-PAT PILOT HAS ACCEPTED HIS MISTAKE / BLUNDER AFTER HE WAS SHOWN PICTURES OF AIRCRAFT FLYING OVER PROHIBITED AREA.
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Survived it? I survived with my [professional] integrity in tact, and that is all that counted.
Enough of that, allow me to ask a few questions:
Under who's system, who's screening, who's authority, stamp and seal of approval for any pilot in India (expat or local) be granted the privileges and limitations to fly for an Indian carrier?
How did these woeful pilots (expat & local) get checked to line?
How did they even get through the initial screening?
Corruption? Useless HR departments? Greedy managers taking up to $5k USD per month PER EXPAT CAPT? (There's your rhyme & reason for the dates and numbers of expats to keep changing.) Spineless agencies also in on the game?
Ahhhh...!!! Blame the PILOT, but don't dare any of you open your damn eyes to investigate the SYSTEM from which the standards are borne and flourish.
One of my previous posts highlighting the most recent corruption and backhand deals relating to expat contracts was a HUGE insight into this system. And yet NOT ONE person commented on that massive corruption. Blindfolded by xenophobic attitudes to remove expats by any means. Last week the DGCA medical, this week the crashes only involving expats, what next? It'll come....
As a TRI/TRE if I pass a pilot who should (must) be failed and that pilot goes on to be responsible for a crash and killing xxx pax, do I and the licensing authority whom I represent, have blood on my/our hands? HELL YES !.
The truth is there are no doubt some (????) expat pilots in India under dubious scams by playing with log books, falsifying credentials. But under who's watch were these "thieves" able to get the keys to the money box? Are you guys THAT STUPID?
The corruption, those despicable low training standards, etc, etc (said all too often before) AFFECTS EVERYONE!
Enough of that, allow me to ask a few questions:
Under who's system, who's screening, who's authority, stamp and seal of approval for any pilot in India (expat or local) be granted the privileges and limitations to fly for an Indian carrier?
How did these woeful pilots (expat & local) get checked to line?
How did they even get through the initial screening?
Corruption? Useless HR departments? Greedy managers taking up to $5k USD per month PER EXPAT CAPT? (There's your rhyme & reason for the dates and numbers of expats to keep changing.) Spineless agencies also in on the game?
Ahhhh...!!! Blame the PILOT, but don't dare any of you open your damn eyes to investigate the SYSTEM from which the standards are borne and flourish.
One of my previous posts highlighting the most recent corruption and backhand deals relating to expat contracts was a HUGE insight into this system. And yet NOT ONE person commented on that massive corruption. Blindfolded by xenophobic attitudes to remove expats by any means. Last week the DGCA medical, this week the crashes only involving expats, what next? It'll come....
As a TRI/TRE if I pass a pilot who should (must) be failed and that pilot goes on to be responsible for a crash and killing xxx pax, do I and the licensing authority whom I represent, have blood on my/our hands? HELL YES !.
The truth is there are no doubt some (????) expat pilots in India under dubious scams by playing with log books, falsifying credentials. But under who's watch were these "thieves" able to get the keys to the money box? Are you guys THAT STUPID?
The corruption, those despicable low training standards, etc, etc (said all too often before) AFFECTS EVERYONE!
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@@@@
Let me guess Luke skytoddler you are from the land downunder
Now working somewhere in the sandpit
You said a lot about India and many Indians how they live and how they not caring about the poor how bad their politicains are ........etc
I lived in that country of 1.2 billion people.The one thing I seen is regardless of rich,poor,middle etc .... you meet them in the streets they are happy to give you a smile and happy to engage in a conversation
what ever it may be and they are accepting ......
have you had a chance to go to any of their homes?
have you experienced their hospitality?
In your earlier post you wrote some very disgusting comments.
I am 99.9 % you are from australia.
before you go an write these kind of comments on India and Indians
have a good look at your own backyard
How are you treating your own people Aborginees,what would you have done if your so called paradise had 1.2 billion people
come on this is not the 19th century grow up and try to be accepting
Tell me How many I Indian capts you have given jobs in say Qantas,Ansett,Jetstar,Virgin,Tiger etc etc.
For that matter My country men are far better.
so pls come with sensible remarks
Now working somewhere in the sandpit
You said a lot about India and many Indians how they live and how they not caring about the poor how bad their politicains are ........etc
I lived in that country of 1.2 billion people.The one thing I seen is regardless of rich,poor,middle etc .... you meet them in the streets they are happy to give you a smile and happy to engage in a conversation
what ever it may be and they are accepting ......
have you had a chance to go to any of their homes?
have you experienced their hospitality?
In your earlier post you wrote some very disgusting comments.
I am 99.9 % you are from australia.
before you go an write these kind of comments on India and Indians
have a good look at your own backyard
How are you treating your own people Aborginees,what would you have done if your so called paradise had 1.2 billion people
come on this is not the 19th century grow up and try to be accepting
Tell me How many I Indian capts you have given jobs in say Qantas,Ansett,Jetstar,Virgin,Tiger etc etc.
For that matter My country men are far better.
so pls come with sensible remarks
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In all this mud slinging i couldnt find even a sembelance of a reply to a very straight forward question i asked on this very thread. this discussion seems very mature
great going guys, specially all the senior lot who have seen the industry over a period of time expats and locals alike
great going guys, specially all the senior lot who have seen the industry over a period of time expats and locals alike
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this thread has become very racist, but i do agree with viking, he does sound like an aussie.
or maybe hes a guy whose got a bog grudge against an Indian and is just generalizing and taking it out on all the Indians here, Luke SkyToddler, very mature mate....
or maybe hes a guy whose got a bog grudge against an Indian and is just generalizing and taking it out on all the Indians here, Luke SkyToddler, very mature mate....
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Viking320 ... I am not Australian, I've been to Australia once in my life, for a weeks' holiday. So what if I was Australian would that somehow make you feel a bit more self righteous for accusing me of all those unfair things you said?
And you talk about the Australian aborigines??!! What the hell they have to do with an article slagging off expat pilots in India, I do not know where you got that idea from. If you want to talk about them though and what I think, I think the whole world agrees that what went on in the name of European colonization was truly horrible and wrong, whether it was Australia or India or South America or anywhere else. But you can't keep blaming the problems of today on things that went on 200 years ago. So here's an idea to test your theory, why don't you go to Australia some time and go to the outback, go find the worst, poorest, no hope aboriginal settlement you can find, and ask the guys that live there whether they would like to trade places with someone who lives in that slum off the end of 27 in BOM?
You're right on your other guess though Viking I do work in the Gulf, where Indians and Europeans and Africans and every other nationality in the world are all "expats", the airline here treats us equally. And nobody seems to have a problem with it we just get on with our jobs. We have some good and bad "expats" here. We have some good and bad locals here. Nobody here seems to write hysterical newspaper articles blaming "expats" when bad things happen.
If you want to write newspaper articles that attack INDIVIDUAL pilots or airlines or authorities or whatever, for accidents that have occurred, and call them unsafe for India, then that is your right. But blaming whole groups for the actions of a few is offensive and wrong.
Look at how angry Pakistan is this week over the comments of the British PM re terrorism, that was a wrong thing for him to say as well. Nobody can deny that there are some terrorists in Pakistan, just like nobody can deny the majority of Pakistanis are not terrorists they are just normal people trying to live their lives. But it is wrong for a political leader to talk about a whole country like they are "terrorists", and it is wrong for a major newspaper to talk about "expats" like they are all bad and dangerous and use the actions of a few, to paint them all with the same brush.
All you guys attacking me personally, let's talk about the actual newspaper article, lets hear your actual opinion on the article itself and a simple "yes" or "no" do you agree with its position on expat pilots? And if so, why, and if not, why not.
And you talk about the Australian aborigines??!! What the hell they have to do with an article slagging off expat pilots in India, I do not know where you got that idea from. If you want to talk about them though and what I think, I think the whole world agrees that what went on in the name of European colonization was truly horrible and wrong, whether it was Australia or India or South America or anywhere else. But you can't keep blaming the problems of today on things that went on 200 years ago. So here's an idea to test your theory, why don't you go to Australia some time and go to the outback, go find the worst, poorest, no hope aboriginal settlement you can find, and ask the guys that live there whether they would like to trade places with someone who lives in that slum off the end of 27 in BOM?
You're right on your other guess though Viking I do work in the Gulf, where Indians and Europeans and Africans and every other nationality in the world are all "expats", the airline here treats us equally. And nobody seems to have a problem with it we just get on with our jobs. We have some good and bad "expats" here. We have some good and bad locals here. Nobody here seems to write hysterical newspaper articles blaming "expats" when bad things happen.
If you want to write newspaper articles that attack INDIVIDUAL pilots or airlines or authorities or whatever, for accidents that have occurred, and call them unsafe for India, then that is your right. But blaming whole groups for the actions of a few is offensive and wrong.
Look at how angry Pakistan is this week over the comments of the British PM re terrorism, that was a wrong thing for him to say as well. Nobody can deny that there are some terrorists in Pakistan, just like nobody can deny the majority of Pakistanis are not terrorists they are just normal people trying to live their lives. But it is wrong for a political leader to talk about a whole country like they are "terrorists", and it is wrong for a major newspaper to talk about "expats" like they are all bad and dangerous and use the actions of a few, to paint them all with the same brush.
All you guys attacking me personally, let's talk about the actual newspaper article, lets hear your actual opinion on the article itself and a simple "yes" or "no" do you agree with its position on expat pilots? And if so, why, and if not, why not.
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If anyone can now remember what this thread is supposed to be about??????
There could well be problems regarding pilots, their experience, and supposed qualifications, especially with the rapid development of aviation within India.
All PILOTS! that is.
But every incident and accident listed earlier was or is under investigation for the actual cause or contributing factors.
If in the extremely unlikely event all of them were solely the result of pilot error, you have not provided the details on which pilot was more at fault and in any case the responsibility is shared by all. Just because a pilot has only 300 hours, he or she is not excused for not calling for a go around or pointing out that the Captain may be landing on a closed runway.
Perhaps if those expats or their co-pilots were not in control and we were faced with the same set of conditions and circumstances the same or worse outcome may have occurred.
I would encourage you to remain suspicious of the expat pilots in your country, but you would be reckless if you stopped there. You must be suspicious of anybody you fly with and everybody else who has anything to do with your safety. That is the only way you will survive in this job.
Even the best trained, most skilled, experienced aviator, mechanic, load controller, re-fueler, ATC controller, dispatcher, flight planner etc etc in the world is capable of killing you under the wrong circumstances. And YES, even YOU!
There could well be problems regarding pilots, their experience, and supposed qualifications, especially with the rapid development of aviation within India.
All PILOTS! that is.
But every incident and accident listed earlier was or is under investigation for the actual cause or contributing factors.
If in the extremely unlikely event all of them were solely the result of pilot error, you have not provided the details on which pilot was more at fault and in any case the responsibility is shared by all. Just because a pilot has only 300 hours, he or she is not excused for not calling for a go around or pointing out that the Captain may be landing on a closed runway.
Perhaps if those expats or their co-pilots were not in control and we were faced with the same set of conditions and circumstances the same or worse outcome may have occurred.
I would encourage you to remain suspicious of the expat pilots in your country, but you would be reckless if you stopped there. You must be suspicious of anybody you fly with and everybody else who has anything to do with your safety. That is the only way you will survive in this job.
Even the best trained, most skilled, experienced aviator, mechanic, load controller, re-fueler, ATC controller, dispatcher, flight planner etc etc in the world is capable of killing you under the wrong circumstances. And YES, even YOU!
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flying in India
I'm looking at a Kingair 200 job in India. Anyone have info on salaries in India for BE20 Captains?
Are working conditions favorable, along with living conditions.
Anyone with experience in charter or corporate flying in India would be welcome.
rdavis42
Are working conditions favorable, along with living conditions.
Anyone with experience in charter or corporate flying in India would be welcome.
rdavis42
The Bumblebee
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Lets not make it an issue about the expat pilots. I can give you plenty of examples where an Indian pilot made the mistake. Here are a few
1) Go air Captain went off the runway at Cochin airport in 2007
2) JetLite Captain had a tail strike while taking off from Mumbai and continued to CCU where the procedure says not to pressurise the aircraft.
3) Kingfisher Captain applied brakes while being pushed back, A321 became unusable.
4) Indian Airlines Captain was sleeping on a flight from JAI to BOM and overflew half way to GOI before they returned back to BBB.
So let's not play the blame game and try to find out why an accident/incident took place rather than who was at control.
May it is time for the DGCA to update its FDTL, they tried and came up with a new one but switched back to old FDTL when they came under pressure from the airlines. May be these incidents are taking place due to stress/fatigue. By the way most of the guys in the rostering do not understand fatigue, they will just mark it call in sick if you tell them that you are fatigued.
All the expats working in India are screened by Indian examiners. They have to go through sim checks followed by route checks before they are cleared for on line operations. May be it is the system that can be blamed.
Luke rightfully said, there are expats working all over the world. When an accident/incident takes place the agencies look for the cause of the accident and not the colour/color of the person flying the plane.
Oh before you start wondering, yes, I am an Indian. I have flown in Indian airspace both as an FO and a Captain and now I am also working as a so called expat.
Kicking the expats out of India is not a solution, with time their numbers will go down. So I think it is time to stop blaming the expats and it is time to find out the real cause of those incident/accidents.
1) Go air Captain went off the runway at Cochin airport in 2007
2) JetLite Captain had a tail strike while taking off from Mumbai and continued to CCU where the procedure says not to pressurise the aircraft.
3) Kingfisher Captain applied brakes while being pushed back, A321 became unusable.
4) Indian Airlines Captain was sleeping on a flight from JAI to BOM and overflew half way to GOI before they returned back to BBB.
So let's not play the blame game and try to find out why an accident/incident took place rather than who was at control.
May it is time for the DGCA to update its FDTL, they tried and came up with a new one but switched back to old FDTL when they came under pressure from the airlines. May be these incidents are taking place due to stress/fatigue. By the way most of the guys in the rostering do not understand fatigue, they will just mark it call in sick if you tell them that you are fatigued.
All the expats working in India are screened by Indian examiners. They have to go through sim checks followed by route checks before they are cleared for on line operations. May be it is the system that can be blamed.
Luke rightfully said, there are expats working all over the world. When an accident/incident takes place the agencies look for the cause of the accident and not the colour/color of the person flying the plane.
Oh before you start wondering, yes, I am an Indian. I have flown in Indian airspace both as an FO and a Captain and now I am also working as a so called expat.
Kicking the expats out of India is not a solution, with time their numbers will go down. So I think it is time to stop blaming the expats and it is time to find out the real cause of those incident/accidents.
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Hey LUKE SKY PODDLER or TODDLER or whatever,I have given money to charities to feed your starving and homeless people and lets not forget incase you are flying as an EXPAT in India,it is the Indians who are feeding you,your family and paying your bills.Kindly show some respect
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Dagar if you use that tiny brain of yours to read the thread properly you will notice that I am paid by Arabs not Indians ... and your countrymen outnumber mine here by about 1000 to 1, I can assure you.
So anyway what a surprise it looks to me like you are another one who wants to insult me without actually discussing the original article that was posted ... if you want to talk about respect then why don't you go and read the original poster and tell me where is the respect shown from that guy to the vast number of highly qualified, safe and respectable EXPAT pilots in your country.
If you can't do that then don't sit there and tell me or any other expats that we should show you one
worth of respect, because we are the ones who have been insulted here, not you. You want respect you have to earn it first and give it to others when it's due.
Then when you have done that, come back here with a detailed, point by point, rebuttal of anything I have said and why you disagree with it ... otherwise I really dont have anything further to say to you.
So anyway what a surprise it looks to me like you are another one who wants to insult me without actually discussing the original article that was posted ... if you want to talk about respect then why don't you go and read the original poster and tell me where is the respect shown from that guy to the vast number of highly qualified, safe and respectable EXPAT pilots in your country.
If you can't do that then don't sit there and tell me or any other expats that we should show you one
worth of respect, because we are the ones who have been insulted here, not you. You want respect you have to earn it first and give it to others when it's due.Then when you have done that, come back here with a detailed, point by point, rebuttal of anything I have said and why you disagree with it ... otherwise I really dont have anything further to say to you.
Last edited by Luke SkyToddler; 9th Jan 2011 at 08:29.
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Indian-Expat´s
It would be a better start if the total number of incidents would have been shown and then compared in how many where ExPat-Pilots involved. Then everybody would be able to compare and make some assumptions.
As there are only Expat-Pilots mishaps where shown at the beginning I cannot ignore the bad smell of discrimination. Now alot of synergy is used to defend the "No discrimination" thread instead of using the brainpower to find solutions to prevent from repeating such incidents. Sad.....
Fly safe and land happy
NG
As there are only Expat-Pilots mishaps where shown at the beginning I cannot ignore the bad smell of discrimination. Now alot of synergy is used to defend the "No discrimination" thread instead of using the brainpower to find solutions to prevent from repeating such incidents. Sad.....
Fly safe and land happy
NG
Join Date: Oct 2004
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They don`t mention the incidents the indians have , but sure there are many too.
But since the article only speaks about foreigners...
I can imagine the S%&/ it is to fly live and fly in India...
I never apply to that latter bin. I`m not a fly.
But since the article only speaks about foreigners...
I can imagine the S%&/ it is to fly live and fly in India...
I never apply to that latter bin. I`m not a fly.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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A pilot's nationality does not determine his skills, guys!
I watched first hand the number of Indian nationals dismissed at one SE Asian airline some years ago (almost to the total exclusion of others), for specifically two reasons....
Lack of basic flying skills.
Poor attitudes.
Both need to go together to produce a proficient and safe airline pilot.
I would have a suggestion for the Indian DGCA, have all the expat pilots dismissed, and watch for the number of increased fatal accidents.
In this way, the EU can include Indian air carriers in the EU blacklist and the FAA can brand the country as Category Two.
It has been often stated in the past that the only way to fly to India, is to fly over, on the way to somewhere else.
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@411A
Let me guess....
All those Indian pilots before joining the this particular SE Asian airline....
( I am guessing Singapore Airlines )
Were all trained by either Air India or Indian Airlines....
Am I right ?
Let me guess....
All those Indian pilots before joining the this particular SE Asian airline....
( I am guessing Singapore Airlines )
Were all trained by either Air India or Indian Airlines....
Am I right ?
Join Date: Apr 2009
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I really don't understand why we Indians think that way for expats.
Most of the fresh CPL holders in India have done their training abroad from where these expats come from.
There have been incidents which I have heard about where some of Indians have done ****z while training caused by language/accent misunderstanding.
Indian aviation industry falls short of Captains and here these expats fulfill the requirement and we should respect and appreciate it.
Most of the fresh CPL holders in India have done their training abroad from where these expats come from.
There have been incidents which I have heard about where some of Indians have done ****z while training caused by language/accent misunderstanding.
Indian aviation industry falls short of Captains and here these expats fulfill the requirement and we should respect and appreciate it.