Air India, Corruption and Foreign Pilots
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avionimc
Interestingly, one of my assigned Indian copilots - recently out of flight school in Australia, had a brand new DGCA pilot license (ME, Commercial and Instrument) and about 300 hours TT.
By curiosity I asked to see his Australian pilot license as I had never seen one before. To my surprise his Australian pilot license only stated Single Engine, Commercial Pilot (no multi engine and no instrument rating)!
In this case, I found out all the Australian flight instructor had to do, is to endorse the student pilot logbook as well as several DGCA forms that the so called pilot had twenty hours of multi engine time and a number of approaches, as well as “passing” an in-house flight school check (in this case, exactly 20 hours of Seneca time logged, to the minute, and including one hour for the so called in-house flight check).
This particular [co]pilot never studied for and never took, never passed a real IFR written test; never took, never passed a real Multi-Engine check ride and never took, never passed a real Instrument check ride.
No wonder…
By curiosity I asked to see his Australian pilot license as I had never seen one before. To my surprise his Australian pilot license only stated Single Engine, Commercial Pilot (no multi engine and no instrument rating)!
In this case, I found out all the Australian flight instructor had to do, is to endorse the student pilot logbook as well as several DGCA forms that the so called pilot had twenty hours of multi engine time and a number of approaches, as well as “passing” an in-house flight school check (in this case, exactly 20 hours of Seneca time logged, to the minute, and including one hour for the so called in-house flight check).
This particular [co]pilot never studied for and never took, never passed a real IFR written test; never took, never passed a real Multi-Engine check ride and never took, never passed a real Instrument check ride.
No wonder…
OK, fair enough, now what are you doing about it? If the paperwork looks correct and the forgery is done well, it's quite easy to fool any regulatory authority ,be it DGCA,FAA ,JAA etc....the onus usually is on pilots not being professional liars. Is it possible to do due diligence on each and every candidate that submits paperwork for conversion of foreign license?
Now, on the other hand, to see the effectiveness of our DGCA, I would suggest you first get in touch with your flight safety department and your fleet manager and advise them anonymously(confidentially with your name missing) of the persons claims. Secondly, send the report to the DGCA .I bet you if correct, his license will be revoked/suspended and he'd be flying PC flight sims for a long time to come.
Please let us know of the outcome and this will help in keeping cheats / liars away from aviation.Sure, DGCA can go a long way in modernisation/simplification but forgery is wrong and needs to be reported ......
masalama.
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Maslama, you misread and misunderstood my post. I am not suggesting that that there was forgery or even lies. What I was trying to show is that a junior pilot or student pilot can obtain a DGCA Multi-Engine pilot license and an Instrument Rating without actually studying for it, without taking an instrument written test (given by the administrator) and, without having to take and pass any check rides by the administrator or its designated. NB, in this case there was no foreign license conversion, as there was no [M-E, Instrument] foreign license to convert from in the first place (only a foreign instructor, overseas, filling ad hoc DGCA forms). The pilot already had a Single Engine, commercial license (obtained and converted a year or two earlier). In my opinion, junior pilots and student pilots here are at a disadvantage because they are not given proper training. Unless they are willing to earn and obtain a full foreign pilot license. Some do.
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All very well bashing up on foreign pilots. Clearly the handling pilot got it "wrong".
What if the PIC was incapacitated, through fatigue or some other reason? Is it not the f/o's job and indeed duty, to take over if he thinks there will be a crash?? It doesn't matter how inexperienced or experienced the other pilot is, that is his most important duty. If necessary get the axe out! From the CVR transcript, he was of that opinion, or he would not have suggested a go around.
Have we not moved on from, 1976, Tenerife?
When I interview a prospective f/o a question I throw in is this. "If I was carrying out an approach and you thought we were going to crash, what would be you actions??"
What if the PIC was incapacitated, through fatigue or some other reason? Is it not the f/o's job and indeed duty, to take over if he thinks there will be a crash?? It doesn't matter how inexperienced or experienced the other pilot is, that is his most important duty. If necessary get the axe out! From the CVR transcript, he was of that opinion, or he would not have suggested a go around.
Have we not moved on from, 1976, Tenerife?
When I interview a prospective f/o a question I throw in is this. "If I was carrying out an approach and you thought we were going to crash, what would be you actions??"
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in my 2 years working in India here are few things that i have seen and observed that Indian pilots do not do. i watch indian captains walk in the airplane 5 mins prior to departure, and push back almost immediately. who did walk around or the proper checklist...? i see 250 hour cessna pilots on the right seat of a 777 or 330 and i guess thats safe cause the captain has just cleared his ATPL exam and upgraded with the company's and DGCA 'S blessings and guess what ...thats safe. want to talk about maintenance ..non existed. i do agree indian nationals should get priority but for crying out loud get some experience first and then move on. i had a DGCA Inspector on my jump the other day and he wished my f/o to see him/her soon on the left seat. f/o has 1700 hours tota time. he also kept reminding me how sharp the indian low time pilots are..so i disengaged the AP i think he got the point of his ''sharp'' f/o's not beeing able to maintain straight and level nor the center line or touch down zone. specially when i said my controls. this is not a competition but unfortunately in india it is. you know all the low time guys want the expats out..i say watch what you wish for...expats are leaving (including my self) but not because of DGCA nor the number of soooooo many qualified pilots but because they are getting jobs elsewhere. keep in mind what will happend to the salaries when expats leave...can you say paycut !!!!!!!!!!! Indian aviation has a long way to go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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All very well bashing up on foreign pilots. Clearly the handling pilot got it "wrong".
What if the PIC was incapacitated, through fatigue or some other reason? Is it not the f/o's job and indeed duty, to take over if he thinks there will be a crash?? It doesn't matter how inexperienced or experienced the other pilot is, that is his most important duty. If necessary get the axe out! From the CVR transcript, he was of that opinion, or he would not have suggested a go around.
Have we not moved on from, 1976, Tenerife?
When I interview a prospective f/o a question I throw in is this. "If I was carrying out an approach and you thought we were going to crash, what would be you actions??"
What if the PIC was incapacitated, through fatigue or some other reason? Is it not the f/o's job and indeed duty, to take over if he thinks there will be a crash?? It doesn't matter how inexperienced or experienced the other pilot is, that is his most important duty. If necessary get the axe out! From the CVR transcript, he was of that opinion, or he would not have suggested a go around.
Have we not moved on from, 1976, Tenerife?
When I interview a prospective f/o a question I throw in is this. "If I was carrying out an approach and you thought we were going to crash, what would be you actions??"
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In a related news, Airlines Pilots Association has sent a letter to DGCA urging it to change FATA rules, to create a level playing field.
‘DGCA should check record of expat pilots’
@doubleu-anker, this is not foreign pilot bashing. this is corrupt-officials' bashing to make skies safer for all
‘DGCA should check record of expat pilots’
regulator body ought to scrutinise competence, skills, history of failures, including remedial and corrective training records of expats, with the same thoroughness as it does in the case of Indian pilots.
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In this case, I found out all the Australian flight instructor had to do, is to endorse the student pilot logbook as well as several DGCA forms that the so called pilot had twenty hours of multi engine time and a number of approaches, as well as “passing” an in-house flight school check (in this case, exactly 20 hours of Seneca time logged, to the minute, and including one hour for the so called in-house flight check).
This particular [co]pilot never studied for and never took, never passed a real IFR written test; never took, never passed a real Multi-Engine check ride and never took, never passed a real Instrument check ride.
This particular [co]pilot never studied for and never took, never passed a real IFR written test; never took, never passed a real Multi-Engine check ride and never took, never passed a real Instrument check ride.
this is the case for most Indian students doing their CPL outside India.They just fly 40 hrs instrument 20 on actual and then 20 sim followed by inhouse checks with the instructor of the school fill some forms and presto they come bak to india and get IR endorsed on their DGCA CPL licence.what they learn about Instrument flying nothin zero zilch.
I dont think Indian DGCA has exams for Instrument rating in India itself.they combine everything in the cpl nav exam.
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This is a topic that is sure to go on and on but i`ll put in my 2 cents as an ex-ex-pat of 5 years in India.
1st --Indian licences are equaly suspect to corruption, i`ve had co-pilots tell me that they have many hours signed by instructors, and they never even got airborne
2nd--maybe "air india" ex-pats don`t pay tax, but i for one have a "pan" card and was never issued a "work permit" unless proof of tax paid was recieved.
3rd--the medical issue is solely due to the utterly RIDICULOUS habit in india of having "air force" doctors do commercial pilots medicals, that is utter nonsense which airforce has 50 year old pilots
4th--when it comes to leave its stupid to believe that ex-pats get more time off eg. i used to get 6 weeks every 20 weeks + 1 day off every week=84+52 =136 days per year, in the previous airline i got 10 days off in every 28 days=130+ 21 days leave=151 days per year.
5th--as regards pay ex-pats got thier tax paid by the company so yes they got 30% more than local pilots BUT they were 10,000 miles away from family and friends.
To sum all this up the co, that i worked for in India is going to be desperatly short of qualified CAPTAINS by year end, and why you might ask, well just maybe the fact that the DGCA issued a mere 82 ALTP`s in one year and there are over 900 ex-pats, just might be a reason,
As for the Indian media well what can i say,
1st --Indian licences are equaly suspect to corruption, i`ve had co-pilots tell me that they have many hours signed by instructors, and they never even got airborne
2nd--maybe "air india" ex-pats don`t pay tax, but i for one have a "pan" card and was never issued a "work permit" unless proof of tax paid was recieved.
3rd--the medical issue is solely due to the utterly RIDICULOUS habit in india of having "air force" doctors do commercial pilots medicals, that is utter nonsense which airforce has 50 year old pilots
4th--when it comes to leave its stupid to believe that ex-pats get more time off eg. i used to get 6 weeks every 20 weeks + 1 day off every week=84+52 =136 days per year, in the previous airline i got 10 days off in every 28 days=130+ 21 days leave=151 days per year.
5th--as regards pay ex-pats got thier tax paid by the company so yes they got 30% more than local pilots BUT they were 10,000 miles away from family and friends.
To sum all this up the co, that i worked for in India is going to be desperatly short of qualified CAPTAINS by year end, and why you might ask, well just maybe the fact that the DGCA issued a mere 82 ALTP`s in one year and there are over 900 ex-pats, just might be a reason,
As for the Indian media well what can i say,
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most Indian students doing their CPL outside India. They just fly 40 hrs instrument 20 on actual and then 20 sim followed by inhouse checks with the instructor of the school fill some forms and presto they come bak to india and get IR endorsed on their DGCA CPL licence.what they learn about Instrument flying nothin zero zilch.
While I agree to your sentiment I must diagree with content..
1. There are "Indian" students in USA too, they get thier Instrument Rating after evaluation by a Designated Pilot Examiner, not by mere logging.. yes its true some schools have in house DPEs, but those compromising standards, is only a tiny minority.
2. Do you mean to say they get Indian IR without getting a New Zealand IR?
@ Airjet
1. 289 ALTP issued in first three quarters of 2010
2. 450 expat pilots currently in India
3. in next three quarters I expect the number of ALTP issued will be more than 500
Since most pilots get the time requirment for ALTP through airline experience, it takes about 3-4 years to get the total hours and p1/us necessary for ALTP, those hired during the boom of 2006-2007 are now nearing thier ALTP hours requirement.
At the same time there are badly managed airlines with short sighted training departments, its possible that they will experience some shortage in near future, but not something severe... The real shortage may come if the fallout of Mangalore Crash is able to revive the FDTL requirements of 2007.
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While I agree to your sentiment I must diagree with content..
1. There are "Indian" students in USA too, they get thier Instrument Rating after evaluation by a Designated Pilot Examiner, not by mere logging.. yes its true some schools have in house DPEs, but those compromising standards, is only a tiny minority.
1. There are "Indian" students in USA too, they get thier Instrument Rating after evaluation by a Designated Pilot Examiner, not by mere logging.. yes its true some schools have in house DPEs, but those compromising standards, is only a tiny minority.
2. Do you mean to say they get Indian IR without getting a New Zealand IR?
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I don`t mean to disrespect India here. but the entire country is basically corrupt much less the aviation sector, so all this weeping and moaning will be wasted unless the culture is forced to change. I worked for 4 years as a expat in India and can quite honestly say, that my jaw remained "dropped" at many of the things the Indian co-pilots had to say.
