FATA ?? .. Get UR Indian Medical Done First !!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: onboard an A6- enroute to India
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FATA ?? .. Get UR Indian Medical Done First !!
Indian FATA Flyers Read This :
During the validity of FATA, it shall be the responsibility of the operators to ensure that the foreign pilots exercising the privileges of FATA under their employment are having:-
a) valid employment visa in the name of the company
b) Valid licenses and ratings
c) Valid Class-I medical :-
a. From Contracting state for keeping the Foreign License Current; and
b. Issued by DGCA India to ensure the medical fitness in accordance to the Aircraft Rules 1937 equivalent to class-I renewal medical standards and validity shall be as per rule 39B of the Aircraft Rules 1937.
d) Carried out proficiency checks IR/LR etc.
e) Meet the recency requirements of their ratings as specified in CAR Section-7, Series-H/ the training manual.
During the validity of FATA, it shall be the responsibility of the operators to ensure that the foreign pilots exercising the privileges of FATA under their employment are having:-
a) valid employment visa in the name of the company
b) Valid licenses and ratings
c) Valid Class-I medical :-
a. From Contracting state for keeping the Foreign License Current; and
b. Issued by DGCA India to ensure the medical fitness in accordance to the Aircraft Rules 1937 equivalent to class-I renewal medical standards and validity shall be as per rule 39B of the Aircraft Rules 1937.
d) Carried out proficiency checks IR/LR etc.
e) Meet the recency requirements of their ratings as specified in CAR Section-7, Series-H/ the training manual.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Over here & there
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Government plans to get rid of expats and the FATA by July 2011. Why bother with this draft, By the time it is finalized the expats will all be gone. Maybe just a batch or two will take the Indian Medical.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florianopolis
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the government is trying to get rid of the expat, why are companies still looking for some? How are expats supposed to keep their foreign licenses current anyway? On their own expenses? commuting?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birthplace of Aviation
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the government is trying to get rid of the expat, why are companies still looking for some? How are expats supposed to keep their foreign licenses current anyway? On their own expenses? commuting?
Because the companies know that they will be able to extend the 2011 deadline too.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Over here & there
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the Indian Government and the people of India want the FATA to go away, it is quite simple.Stop the growth of the airlines. If the airlines stay at the present level or shrink so as to have adequate staffing by ONLY Indian Captains and F/O's the FATA will not be needed. But that will mean that airlines such as AI and 9W, SG, Indigo,KF will have to reduce their capacity by 20-40%. Once that is done then you will have an all Indian environment which some people want anyway. Once it is an all Indian environment, they can also have an all Indian pay package. Think of the savings!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: india, asia
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FATA is definitely going to be around for some time, and reasonably so. I think the requirement for a DGCA medical is a fair one, if Indian captains/fo's are grounded due to failing the DGCA medical renewal standards, then foreign licensed captains/fo's/instructors should be subjected to a similar test to ascertain medical fitness.
I wonder what took DGCA so long to come up with this.
I wonder what took DGCA so long to come up with this.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SINGAPORE
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
niKaviator, you seem to suggest that
1. expat pilots should be wary of doing an Indian medical
2. that the DGCA is a most well run and professional body with great medical standards
3. or perhaps that the rest of the world is incompetent with unfit aviators
4. or pilots worldwide should share the grief & treatment Indian pilots
get from " the Great Wall of India."
1. expat pilots should be wary of doing an Indian medical
2. that the DGCA is a most well run and professional body with great medical standards
3. or perhaps that the rest of the world is incompetent with unfit aviators
4. or pilots worldwide should share the grief & treatment Indian pilots
get from " the Great Wall of India."
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: india, asia
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lol...good one rdr
1. kind of...we are wary of it ourselves
2. hardly...
3. Not at all, India should be more lax on medical standards for certain conditions inline with international standards. If you compare the FAA medical standards for renewal to the DGCA one, you will find a lot of differences, the DGCA being more stringent.
4.If they wanna be in India...yes...it's only fair. What's the point of grounding Indian pilots who are unable to meet renewal standards and then recruiting foreign license holder who may not pass the Indian Class 1 renewal standards to fill the vacancy.
1. kind of...we are wary of it ourselves
2. hardly...
3. Not at all, India should be more lax on medical standards for certain conditions inline with international standards. If you compare the FAA medical standards for renewal to the DGCA one, you will find a lot of differences, the DGCA being more stringent.
4.If they wanna be in India...yes...it's only fair. What's the point of grounding Indian pilots who are unable to meet renewal standards and then recruiting foreign license holder who may not pass the Indian Class 1 renewal standards to fill the vacancy.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
India should loosen its standards. The US system is 10 times the size of the Indian aviation system and planes aren't falling out of the sky from the fat out of shape pilots droping dead in the cockpit. Maybe you guys should work on getting the corrupt system in India changed instead of keeping it and forcing everybody else to conform to it. We are here based on our liscense not an Indian liscense. I have witnessed marathon runner fail a medical in India because their heartrate was too low, how crazy is that.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Asia
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's lobbying to loosen the medical standards for pilots in India, which is already in the works....
No one is asking other pilots to conform to corruption, just medical standards! A guy shouldn't be taken out of his job just to be replaced by someone who might also not meet the standards, while the medical standards still exist.
For that matter I find JAR medical renewal standards pretty strict as well, especially in ophthalmology as compard to the FAA, other medical boards and ICAO recommendations....
BTW, it also took u.s a very long time to adopt the 65 age limit rule for pilots flying in u.s carriers.
No one is asking other pilots to conform to corruption, just medical standards! A guy shouldn't be taken out of his job just to be replaced by someone who might also not meet the standards, while the medical standards still exist.
For that matter I find JAR medical renewal standards pretty strict as well, especially in ophthalmology as compard to the FAA, other medical boards and ICAO recommendations....
BTW, it also took u.s a very long time to adopt the 65 age limit rule for pilots flying in u.s carriers.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: india, asia
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trying to pressure the DGCA to take it easy on certain medical issues in line with international standards is an ongoing effort. The DGCA depends on the Indian Airforce to lay down its rather stringent civil aviation medical policies, as it doesn't have its own independent civil medical board like FAA or JAA to consider appeals. This definitely should change and am sure it will in the near future, under pressure from the airlines and pilots.
Meanwhile, I think a level playing field for both foreign license holders and local captains when it comes to medicals is in order, if some local captains are losing their jobs on that basis.
Why different norms for foreign pilots, Indian pilots ask DGCA [Mumbai] | Times of India, The Newspaper | Find Articles at BNET
Meanwhile, I think a level playing field for both foreign license holders and local captains when it comes to medicals is in order, if some local captains are losing their jobs on that basis.
Why different norms for foreign pilots, Indian pilots ask DGCA [Mumbai] | Times of India, The Newspaper | Find Articles at BNET
Last edited by nikaviator; 27th May 2010 at 05:04. Reason: added a link
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: earth
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Meanwhile, I think a level playing field for both foreign license holders and local captains when it comes to medicals is in order, if some local captains are losing their jobs on that basis.
Today it is about level playing field in medical standards.
Tomorrow some other Indian pilots would say that foreign pilots must also pass and get an Indian RTR, failing which the pilot is not said to be "safe" for Indian skies.
Next, some other Indian pilots would be lobbying for expat pilots to pass all the DGCA ATPL theory examinations and technical papers to prove competency !
Even further, we would want expat pilots to also get a MORSE CODE test certificate, else the expat pilot is unsafe to fly here because of lack of knowledge of morse code !
A validation is a validation only.
It is purely an authorization to fly in another country's airspace temporarily on the basis of having another ICAO contracting nation's valid and current licence.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: india, asia
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@Shanx....I am not sure if you are aware that the FAA only validates foreign license upto private certificate and instrument only.
Even if you are a holder of foreign cpl/atpl you still have to go through the FAA exams, check rides, the works, and U.S class I Medicals...if you want to be a commercial pilot/cfi overthere
Also read the article I posted earlier, regarding ICAO requirements
Even if you are a holder of foreign cpl/atpl you still have to go through the FAA exams, check rides, the works, and U.S class I Medicals...if you want to be a commercial pilot/cfi overthere
Also read the article I posted earlier, regarding ICAO requirements
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: earth
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@nikaviator
Fair enough.
I agree to what you have written regarding FAA licensing and similar rules applicable to expats.
However, this (Indian class 1 medical for FATA) rule would serve absolutely no purpose for the betterment of both the Indian and foreign pilots community.
As with most of the things in DGCA, this new class 1 med requirement for expats is more to do with greasing some more palms, than about safety.
It would be better for us if we instead try to lobby for getting the Indian class 1 medical standards on par with the FAA, JAA standards.
Even better would be to try and lobby for doing away with this PMR forwarding crap and appoint and authorise private doctors to conduct class 1 medicals.
Fair enough.
I agree to what you have written regarding FAA licensing and similar rules applicable to expats.
However, this (Indian class 1 medical for FATA) rule would serve absolutely no purpose for the betterment of both the Indian and foreign pilots community.
As with most of the things in DGCA, this new class 1 med requirement for expats is more to do with greasing some more palms, than about safety.
It would be better for us if we instead try to lobby for getting the Indian class 1 medical standards on par with the FAA, JAA standards.
Even better would be to try and lobby for doing away with this PMR forwarding crap and appoint and authorise private doctors to conduct class 1 medicals.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: india, asia
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with you...and had mentioned in my post that there are ongoing efforts to push DGCA to make it more inline with international standards, however, for the time being, Indian capts shouldn't be grounded to make way for a foreign license holder (note I mentioned foreign license holder not expats as some Indians manage to get foreign citizenship to get around it) who may not pass the same tests.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They are not being put on the street so expats can replace them. No business wants to put a lower paid employee on the street so they can increase their costs by paying a higher salary, travel, living costs, ect. to a foriegn employee. It's pure and simple Indian corruption at it's greatest. The reason the US makes all get US atps is because they don't have a requirement for expats. If they needed expats this would definatly change, but with a ready supply of pilots why would they.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Over here & there
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a double edged sword my friends. The FAA is in the business of promoting aviation and also enforcement. The DGCA hmmm, you decide for yourself. If you have a medical problem on an FAA license, there usually is a genuine effort to get you back in the cockpit if at all possible. Pilots with cancer, heart attacks etc have returned to duty after a haitus and required testing. A flew with a guys once with one eye. He lost his eye to a drunk driver and it took him a few years to get back into aviation. He had to go through a variety of tests including a checkride in the airplane at night to check his depth perception. He was given a demonstrated waiver and continued to fly for many years as a Captain. Another lost a leg to cancer, and came back after many years with a prosthethic. He too had to undergo tests, checkrides, V1 cuts etc to ensure he was capable.
He remains a Captain at a major airline.
Indian medical standards are tough as are those in other parts of Asia.
At Korean Airlines, it makes the Indians look pale in comparison. You find out things about yourself, you probably don't want to know!
He remains a Captain at a major airline.
Indian medical standards are tough as are those in other parts of Asia.
At Korean Airlines, it makes the Indians look pale in comparison. You find out things about yourself, you probably don't want to know!
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birthplace of Aviation
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As with most of the things in DGCA, this new class 1 med requirement for expats is more to do with greasing some more palms, than about safety.
@drive73
It's pure and simple Indian corruption at it's greatest.
Does the guy who drafter the CAR get a cut?
I agree there is lots of corruption in India, but point where it is and not where it is absent.
The only way I can sense some corruption is when the CAR doesn't come into effect. Because then it is a sort of arm twisting technique to force the recruitment firms to pay up in order to keep the proposed CAR in abeyance.
But if it is passed, the corruption angle will be difficult to justify.
Last edited by jimmygill; 27th May 2010 at 18:13.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UAE
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which CAR?
Issued by DGCA India to ensure the medical fitness in accordance to the Aircraft Rules 1937 equivalent to class-I renewal medical standards and validity shall be as per rule 39B of the Aircraft Rules 1937.
