Susi Air Work Permits

[kapt z]

rustam

where i am coming from is have a constructive debate about aviation in indonesia, rather than spewing this hatred for one company. As i said before, there is other problems out there, why focus on just this.

[rustam]

Please read the name of this thread:

Susi Air Work Permits

This is for people who have worked, are currently working, or intend to work for Susi Air.

This is to try and understand what is going on within this company.

The day Susiair gets its act together,
the day they give their licenses to all the pilots working for them,
the day they provide proper legal documents for all foreign nationals working for them,
I will be the first to cheer up.

The only hatred is in your imagination.

[kapt z]

rustam

So did you work for them then? you seem to know alot about them

[PK-KAR]

My my, another slugfest on a SusiAir topic...

Well, let's see...
Susi Air seems to be the only company in Indonesia who tried to get an engineer (visiting Jakarta on a tourist visa for an interview, OK, nothing wrong with that, until...) to fix one of the caravans (not in Java), "to see if he can fix planes"... Slavery at its best.

Now take the time to reflect on your own DGCA, accepting bribes IS corruption. Hmm ethics mate.

Accepting a bribe is corruption, so is giving a bribe, and relying on your employer to bribe officials so you can continue to work without the required permit, is an accessory to corruption.

Now, other companies, have been employing foreigners and arming them with the right permits.

The fact that they are as you say AOG means the pilots or maintenance are not allowing the aircraft to fly in that condition, in which i think we all can agree is a good thing.

Yes, but then if the engine won't start, does it matter who AOG-ed the plane? So, if the DGAC comes along and checks on the planes, and the crew... "oh dear, you don't have the right permits..." or "oh dear, something is wrong with the maintenance logs" or "oh dear, this is unauthorized maintenance method", and the company goes "now now mr inspector, take this and be on your way or I'll make your career stop here right now," who's wrong?

Anyways, 2 wrongs don't make a right. It is a good thing if the pilots or maintenace AOG the sickplane, but one cannot say that to work without the right permits is a good thing!

Now if you are all out to save aviation in Indonesia, why not address issues rather than just go after one company and whine like an old lady, as i am sure that they are not the only problem in Indonesia.

Because, it seems that this particular company, prefers to regard locals (qualified and locals) as inferior... Not all are inferior (there are no doubts those who are indeed inadequate beyond belief... but then, there are also foreigners that fall into that category, regardless of company).

I don't go as strongly as Rustam about 'the day Susi Air gets its act together', I'd just be happy enough in the short term if "Susi air provides its foreign crew with the right permits to enable legal employment in the country"... she can babble endlessly about "how useless the locals are"...

Working permits aren't an aviation safety issue, it is a general issue. I don't care how good or bad Susi Air is, but if they violate even the immigration (non-aviation safetymatter) issue, that really doesn't give a hint on the management's trustworthiness when it comes to safety issues no matter how many/few AOGs/crashes there has been. Heck, this is a basic corporate governance issue... which is supposed to be waaaaay below aviation safety in terms of complexity.

But then, I don't know if Susi can be consistent about "locals being useless" and "foreigners are useful", except for the fact that several foreigners have left because of no pay for over 6 months...

I actually feel sorry for those who are hold to ransom & open to the vagaries of Indo immigration laws because the Madame decides "to hell with inferior Indonesian inferior requirements on employment of foreigners." When push comes to shove, (and I hope to God that day won't come, or maybe it has without us knowing), some of these "non-KITAS" guys will be in the line of fire if they don't obey, because they can face criminal penalties for knowingly being "illegally employed"... this method of "intimidation" have occured before!

At least for those I know personally (non-locals), no matter how desperate one is for hours and ratings, they stay away from prostituting themselves for it. In turn, there are also companies who don't like employing what they call "aviation prostitutes/willing slaves", both here, and abroad...

You think my wish is too much of a dream, well, "wismilak" (no pun intended).

[WSSS]

Yes, great post PK-KAR.

Let's not forget the main reason why the Indonesian government allows expats to work in the country, and that is to benefit both the country and the local work force. Payment of the Skills Development Fund to the Ministry of Manpower ($1200 USD per employee per year) is the final step to getting the work permit.

[cintamu]

Kapt Z just got a bit nervous and I understand that.

Kapt Z must work for susi air he has so much love for this company.
south african, canadian, dont think you come from australia mate...

where are you going to put all that love when you will be seating at the immigration office? maybe they accept bribes but sometimes for them playing with a bule is too good to be true.
respect yourself cuz!

maybe we did work for susi air maybe we work for DGCA maybe we are working for susi maybe we only came for an interview maybe we have friends in susi anyway it is not relevant. what is more important is that when you said to rustam how come he knows so much about susi air it actually shows us that you are working yourself in this company... its oke my friend nobody is perfect.

you see on this thread we are all working towards one and unique result so for us you are nothing... just one more pilot that tries to show us how perfect is susi air.

[WSSS]

Came across this news report of foreign nationals violating their Indonesian visa conditions. Looks like the authorities are cracking down on such activities lately.

Immigration Office Arrests 19 Foreign National ‘Spa’ Girls
Written by Roffie Kurniawan Wednesday, 26 May 2010 22:37


Directorate general for immigration at the Law and Human Rights Ministry has arrested 19 foreign national women who are working at Spa V2 in Gajah Mada area, down town Jakarta, for alleged violation of entry visa ruling.

“We suspect they have violated permit to stay (visa),” director for investigation at the immigration office M. Husin Alaydrus was quoted by State-owned Antara news agency as saying late Wednesday.

The women, described as ‘sexy girls’ by some online news, came from various countries– five from China, four from Thailand, one from Philippine, four from Vietnam and five from Uzbezkishtan.

Husin said his office arrested the girls for failure to show proper immigration documents, for instance permission to stay. They were suspected to have violated Law No. 9, Year 1992 on Immigration. He said his office will question them before imposing proper sanction.

Unfortunately, most of them could not speak either English or Indonesian, which makes it difficult for the immigration officers to question them. Will they be released? On what condition?

The arrest was not the first time. Similar cases have happened in the past, but often they were sent home, but some coming back to town again.

[infrequent_flyer]

More SA Lies and Arrogance

This is old but relevant. Typical of the SA arrogance.

Basically it says that SA was training without authorization when their plane CRASH LANDED at an artillery gunnery range near Padalarang, W Java. The instructor was the young NZ pilot - we know his name no need mention it here. Susi denied the charge and said they were returning a pilot to Jakarta. Let the pilot who is on this forum and others vouch for his actions. Press stories say there were "mechanics" on board apparently and they were returning from Nusawiru where another SA plane, a Caravan, sat disabled - thanks to lack of proper maintenance. PK-VVH

---------------
adnan -> Ilegal Flight Training By Susi (07/11/2008 21:48:10)
Hohoho
Anan Dapet Kabar Dari Orang Lanud.Bahwa Kemarin Pas Kejadian Diamond DA-42 Yang Crash Di.Cirata Batujajar
Penumpang Nya Di Intrograsi Katanya Mengaku Lagi Training.DAN Instruktur nya Orang New Zealand,Terus Si Susi Membantah Itu Karyawan Yang Akan Di Antar Ke Jakarta.

Why Ilegal??:Anan Rasa Belum Ada Deh Perizinan Dari Dephub
Ada Yang Tau Lebih Lanjut

Ohya.Setelah buka Link Nya Ternyata Memang Susi Air Sudah Menawarkan Training Flight School Sejak Febuari 2008 Dan TraningCenter Nya Di PanganDaran Coba Deh liat ini

--- SUSI AIR -- Passenger and Cargo Aircraft Charter
Liat Map Nya Itu Pangandaran Training Center??

Terus Liat Di News Nya

[corky121]

I hear susi air has sacked 3 helicopter pilots? foreign or national? anyone?

[corky121]

I think the heli guys they had/have were reasonably experienced going by what there advertised minimums for the job were.. not fresh cpl's looking for a start.

Wonder if they were treated any different to the C208 newbies in regards to kitas and licensing requirements?? I think any experienced guy would not put up with it not been done properly... maybe they were sacked/pushed or left because it wasnt been taken care of and spoke up?

Just a rumour anyways .....

[edsbar]

Facts

Infrequent Flier

I am neither a lover or hater of Susi Air however here are a few facts as you seem to have let the truth get in the way of a good story ...........

The pilot was a Senior Pilot not a Junior. (Check & training Captain from NZ)
VVH had a flat tire, nothing to do with bad maintenance on this occasion.
There were 2 Indonesian mechanics on board. One is the holder of an Indonesian AMEL and the other unlicensed. (PM me if you want his phone number to verify)
It was not a training flight the aircraft departed Nusawiru and flew to Halim to pick up 2 mechanics and a spare wheel. Top of climb out of Halim on the return leg the engine stopped.
At this stage Susi Air does not do ab initio flight training, the training centre is used for type training for new pilots foreign and Indonesian.
It was a DA40 not DA42 as the article suggests.

The engine failure was due to a failure in the engine driven fuel pump on a nearly new aircraft (123 Hours) and was not maintenance related.

It was not a crash but a text book forced landing into the only available clear area for miles. Sadly it was wet and an Army truck had left large deep ruts across the range, these caused the undercarriage to fail at the end of the landing role. If not for the ruts the aircraft would have been fine.

Deraya had a forced landing on the same day and landed on the freeway between Jakarta and Bandung in a C172.

Now back to the S@#t fight!

[cintamu]

they have a DA-42 too and lucky it has been grounded(before we got another forced landing) because leaving this kind of plane in the sun(32 degrees 90% humidity) or on the beach of Pangandaran makes any flight dangerous...
at 123 hours the engine driven fuel pump give up that because the maintenance isnt doing their job by the book and because this kind of plane is not recommended for this type of weather god damn its a german plane!
but thanks for clarifying the whole story!

who said it's a s$&t fight?? can't you see what we trying to do? you neither a lover or a hater of susi air this does mean something right?

respect your mum country there are people loosing their life or fight everyday to get the truth out! not only about susi air...
you either take a side or close your eyes... you know what people can do, i thought you were a pretty smart guy!
hope you enjoy papua!

[corky121]

Was this DA - 40 powered (using the term 'powered' loosely) by those Thierlert??? diesel jobs?? Im sure you could find an example of an inflight shutdown of one of these with less than 123hrs tt on it if you looked.. hence the lycoming conversion now available. And at 123hrs tt with probably only 2 inspections carried out on the aircraft ever (1 - 50hr and 1 - 100 hr) i would think the engine driven fuel pump would not have even been called up for an inspection yet?!! Hard to blame poor maintenance on something that ain't been fiddled with yet...

In saying all that im in no way familiar with the DA maintenance manual and required checks..

"because leaving this kind of plane in the sun(32 degrees 90% humidity) or on the beach of Pangandaran makes any flight dangerous..."

Same could be said for that plastic piaggio thing whatever it is.. i would imagine that will be reasonably maintenance intensive in the future living on the apron.

[Bob Kahar]

lets keep to the subject

Again some things being said, let us keep up the topic with necessary humor.
Does 'Air Work Permit' for this company? In my opinion it does as long as foreign pilots and other employees are legal and Miss Susi starts to fulfill her agreement according labor regulations by training Indonesian Pilots in her Flying School.

[cintamu]

its not about being traumatized its about how much good thing she can do for her country!
how many illegalities are you ready to go through before you say "STOP im not that kind of guy!"?

you can not play the same game that she plays...

what make you a "good pilot"?
not only inside the plane but outside too...

some of you are too young to understand because you might think soon it will be over.

yes the pilot did an awesome job.
and thanks for bringing back all the facts.

[therealmccoy]

Retarded

Retarded: Def: Delayed in development; Of a person, having mental retardation; By extension, of a person or thing, stupid; senseless; irrational.

Not sure why you fellas like quoting definitions so much, but here is one that describes your posts and their relevance.

You are chasing after the wrong group of people on this forum. It is the government that has oversight and obviously if Susi Air is doing what you say they are, then it is the government who is at fault. From their history, it seems to me they are doing a much better job than "local" carriers.
If you want to talk about calibre of pilots, I seem to recall several accidents within Indonesia with aircraft carrying more passengers than the aircraft is certified for. What does that say about the integrity you seem to profess within Indonesia that these foreigners seem to lack?
Let us not forget the Garuda Captain who killed all those people in Java because he didn't have the integrity to lose face and go around. Or how about the fact that he got off?
When you point a finger, remember there are 3 pointing right back at you.
There needs to be a complete overhaul of the DGCA. To allow pilots to walk out the door fully licensed with no idea of what they are doing because of how much cash they are willing to pay is criminal.

I do agree though, Susi Air needs to provide their crews with proper working papers when it comes to licensing and visa's; however, Susi Air is not responsible for bringing the standard of aviation down in Indonesia.

Now, can't we all just get along?

[WSSS]

Originally Posted by therealmccoy

You are chasing after the wrong group of people on this forum. It is the government that has oversight and obviously if Susi Air is doing what you say they are, then it is the government who is at fault.

It's this kind of arrogance that makes Susi Air despised by the local Indonesian aviation industry. As well as;

Originally Posted by edsbar

Sadly it was wet and an Army truck had left large deep ruts across the range, these caused the undercarriage to fail at the end of the landing role. If not for the ruts the aircraft would have been fine.

The fact that these guys are willing to blame every single mishap they encounter on the locals again shows how arrogant they are.

And to top it all off, don't forget the Susi Air captain who called ATC a 'fcuking idiot' on he radio. Arrogance at its best, but what is even more disturbing is a Susi Air pilot posting on PPrune saying it's ok for the pilot to do so because of the poor standard of ATC in Indonesia. Professionalism at its best.
So you must think you're the only foreigners dealing with Indonesian ATC ? There are now many foreign pilots working legally in Indonesia and with those transiting Indonesian airspace, they all deal with Indonesian ATC in a professional manner despite the same difficulties they face.

Originally Posted by therealmccoy

Now, can't we all just get along?

That's a bit difficult when your arrogance is well known to the local aviation industry and almost every other local pilot flying, right from the national carrier Garuda, to those flying Airvans in Kalimantan for Kura Kura despises your attitude, arrogance and disrespect to local people, culture and society.

Believe it or not, those who started this thread are actually doing Susi Air pilots a favour in asking for management to ensure that their pilots have the correct papers to work in Indonesia. If you can't see that, then that just says alot about yourselves as individuals.

[therealmccoy]

First off, I agreed that there is no excuse for Susi Mgmt not getting proper work permits or licenses.
Second, I agree that profanity on the radio especially when directed at ATC is never warranted and should be dealt with severely.
Third, there are pilots at Susi Air who unfortunately don't make the effort to learn the language and culture; however, they are far from the majority.
To paint the entire Susi Air group with one brush because of a few incidents is not fair whatsoever.
Susi Air may be an easy target because it is almost entirely made up of foreigners, not to mention mostly young, single, with low experience. That is because there are no Indonesian pilots to fill these positions. That being said, they still have one of the best safety records in Indonesia, period.
For you to keep quoting the diamond incident is ridiculous. The pilot did a great job, everyone walked away. End of story.
Now, before you keep quoting embarrassing events that may have happened at Susi Air to in an attempt to discredit them, remember, it is a two way street and you open up all of Indonesian aviation to the same scrutiny.
So back to the discussion at hand. Yes, Susi Air must get proper work permits and licensing for everyone (if it is not already happening).

Believe it or not, those who started this thread are actually doing Susi Air pilots a favour in asking for management to ensure that their pilots have the correct papers to work in Indonesia.

Perhaps those who started the thread had that in mind; however, most others are here to do nothing more than discredit and cause damage because of a personal vendetta.

[WSSS]

Originally Posted by therealmccoy

To paint the entire Susi Air group with one brush because of a few incidents is not fair whatsoever.

Yes, it's unfortunate that there are a few in your pilot group who give the rest a bad name. I know a few present and former Susi Air pilots and they are very good people. The same goes for every company; there will always be a few who give the company a bad name.

But what I am doing here is giving you feedback on how Susi Air pilots are perceived by the local aviation industry. I am not the one painting the picture. that's already being done by those bad apples in your company who give it a bad name. I am all for having better relationships with Susi Air pilots, but you must first realise that this is how you're perceived by the industry here.

[PK-VVX]

the fake mccoy

Thank you WSSS for your great post.
Thank you for putting the debate right where it belongs.

mccoy if you had as much integrity as you claim you do, you would not post such non sense.

it's so obvious you're being manipulated.
your own hunger for power has blinded you.
you are so happy now to wear a management batik
your arguments are so cheap, they dont fool anyone

have a look at the safety records in america, europe, anywhere else,
what about the accident rate per flying hour?
why are you staying in indonesia if it's such a bad country for you?

it's so easy to blame the government for your company's own problems.
is this your attitude: the whole system is corrupt, so let's make the best of it?
every company for themselves and the best cheater wins?

how dare you say there are no indonesian pilots to fulfill those seats?
dont you know that right now the flight schools in halim, curug, bali are training indonesian pilots?
young indonesian pilots would love to fly a caravan, but they wont sacrifice their integrity by working for susi air, because they know exactly what is going on in there
and frankly would you like to fly with some one who calls your own people f...ing idiots on the radio???
what would you think if this happened in your own country?

there is a world out there
get out of country woods for a change and look around yourself

what about that great idea, the pangandaran flight school?
how is that helping indonesian aviation?

WSSS is right, the whole indonesian aviation community is fed up with the susi gang

there are some tremendously experienced pilots here in indonesia,
captains with 20000 hours and more with great skills and great maturity and leadership, who wont let themselves be corrupted and/or bought

and yes there are also foreigners working legally in indonesia, for decent companies, and these guys are proud of working here,
and they are proud to work alongside experienced, mature, decent, polite indonesian crews, engineers, staff ...