The Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines
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aviation english
ICAO requires all airline pilots to obtain at least a level 4 proficiency in aviation english. CAAP had been screening/testing filipino pilots and issuing certificates for a fee of PHP3,500.00 (unreceipted). The testing/screening is a 30-minute dialogue with a lady who tries to speak better english than you. What gives? CAAP continues to tread the crooked ways ignoring the "daang matuwid" appeal of P-Noy. Twotters might say Cusi is not in on it. I think so, too. He is so disconnected to what is happening in his turf. China and Korea CAAs gives level 6 certificates to their citizen pilots. Ours give mostly level 4 so that you have to go back to them in three years time and steal your Php3,500.00 again. What a racket! We pay our taxes diligently and faithfully and this is the service we get! Do something, legal consultant!! Make your congressman earn his pork barrel.
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parsifal: i'm already doing something. i am collecting all your posts here and will be sending them to him... 
will be making some recommendations too when i'm already ready...
will be making some recommendations too when i'm already ready...
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@twotters -- it's not just in the PI mind you. any one who has travelled the world over and met bureaucracy can tell you the philippines bureaucractic culture is indeed in a bad state, but not much worse than, say, India (just for example). i would make the government accountable to change for the better, but i am still proud to be pinoy enough not to have too much self-pity for the current state of affairs. 
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Not all Korean Pilots have level 6
There are not many, I rather say just a few.... Korean Pilots hwo have Level 6, you find alot who bearly make level 4 and some who scratch the heads because they did not pass the bench mark. So please stick to facts when you post something that you want to pass on to the Congressman. It would be pitty you load him with the wrong ammunition and when he want´s to aim and fire his gun´s the shots backfire then and vanish.
The European CAA´s gave alot of theire Pilots Level 4 without further testing as you have to do some ATPL written exams in English and also the Radio Licence you had to do in English before, written and oral exam. That was in 1980´s when I had the hurdles seen higher then my abilities first. Now the JAA is making a fresh policy for all Member Authorities to harmonise the application, I am smiling at this very moment as I remember a Instructor of mine back then, he told me to hurry up as there is a European Regulation on the plan and when I pass all exams before I am not subject to the new testing as I have the Licence received earlier. When I look into the CAA´s Website I see so many things not completed, yet. Maybe after my retirement then.....
In a few months I know if and when I have to do another ELP test, despite having a certificate received with Level 6 but unfortunatly before the regulation was modyfied, so the date is not valid and I am sure I have to pay another 150 .-- € to get another paper into the licence who states ELP level... valid until..... who is faster? Retirement 6 years or cashman 3 years?
Fly safe and land happy
NG
The European CAA´s gave alot of theire Pilots Level 4 without further testing as you have to do some ATPL written exams in English and also the Radio Licence you had to do in English before, written and oral exam. That was in 1980´s when I had the hurdles seen higher then my abilities first. Now the JAA is making a fresh policy for all Member Authorities to harmonise the application, I am smiling at this very moment as I remember a Instructor of mine back then, he told me to hurry up as there is a European Regulation on the plan and when I pass all exams before I am not subject to the new testing as I have the Licence received earlier. When I look into the CAA´s Website I see so many things not completed, yet. Maybe after my retirement then.....
In a few months I know if and when I have to do another ELP test, despite having a certificate received with Level 6 but unfortunatly before the regulation was modyfied, so the date is not valid and I am sure I have to pay another 150 .-- € to get another paper into the licence who states ELP level... valid until..... who is faster? Retirement 6 years or cashman 3 years?
Fly safe and land happy
NG
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i think the racket is not so much in getting Level 4 certificate versus Level 6, but on the validity of the testing. the lady tester obviously is not qualified to do the test, much less create the test. it's obviously a sham.
i suppose no pilot will complain about getting Level 4 (and therefore paying again in 3 years' time) if the test was fair and credible.
i suppose no pilot will complain about getting Level 4 (and therefore paying again in 3 years' time) if the test was fair and credible.
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twotters: he will. i can see the nobility of his intentions...
parsifal: do you think there is a need for an oversight committee to see whether or not CAAP is doing well in its job to improve aviation safety and industry within and without the nation? seems like we have too many irregularities going on.
anyone: please continue posting irregularities being done by CAAP, flight schools, etc. you know about. thanks...
parsifal: do you think there is a need for an oversight committee to see whether or not CAAP is doing well in its job to improve aviation safety and industry within and without the nation? seems like we have too many irregularities going on.
anyone: please continue posting irregularities being done by CAAP, flight schools, etc. you know about. thanks...
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Comsultants in CAAP
how effective are they? most of you said that Consultants are not helping in any way but are largely contributory to the bad stuff that are happening in CAAP but one person in another forum suggested that we should be listening to these consultants and implement their advice. the same person also said that we should follow what Singapore did - that is, follow their consultants - w/c was effective. how true is this? can anyone tell me. thanks...
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legal_consultant
twotters: he will. i can see the nobility of his intentions...
twotters: he will. i can see the nobility of his intentions...
Tough job - specially he works in a political hostile environment - but my guess is: He will bring the islands up again if the politicians are staying out of his professional management style. If they mess it up I would say: PI kiss your ass good bye for the next few years and cook your own soup cause its hard to get good people these days like him!
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consultants, oversight committee
an oversight committee would be another clog in our already over-extended bureacratic red tape. what the house could do is to look into the development program of the CAAP and determine if their budget is being used towards the accomplishment of their programs. the house could also look into what direction the CAAP is bringing the aviation industry. As it is, there seem to be no significant effort to really leapfrog us into the company of the world class airports in the region. Among the capital airports in the region, Manila may as well be rank way below Bangkok, Singapore, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Hongkong, Taipei, Incheon, Guangzhou, Osaka and others. These are all world class airports in terms of terminals, runway and airport facilities and navigational aids. In all these airports, precision instrument approaches are the norm. In Manila, we are still using non-precision approaches for landing, Needless to say, precision approaches provide or ensure more safe landing in case of inclement weather. The only world class things in Manila are the airliine pilots, cabin crew, mechanics and the ATC controllers. That is why you can see them in different parts of the world serving in other airlines of foreign countries. Clark has been named as the international airport of the country but so far no serious effort is being pursued towards this dream. Manila intl airport has no more space for expansion.
The CAAP has resorted to consultants because they do not have enough qualified technical people. Technical people do not seek employment in government agencies like the CAAP because they get better pay in private companies or abroad. That is why the civil service law needs to be revised. The pilot checkers organic to CAAP, for instance, are mostly turbo-prop pilots and are not, for all intents and purposes, qualified to check the airline jet pilots. The consultants resorted to are retired airline pilots which may well be the best option.
The CAAP has resorted to consultants because they do not have enough qualified technical people. Technical people do not seek employment in government agencies like the CAAP because they get better pay in private companies or abroad. That is why the civil service law needs to be revised. The pilot checkers organic to CAAP, for instance, are mostly turbo-prop pilots and are not, for all intents and purposes, qualified to check the airline jet pilots. The consultants resorted to are retired airline pilots which may well be the best option.
Last edited by parsifal; 31st Oct 2010 at 10:07. Reason: addl msg
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twotters: i didn't understand a word you're saying... perhaps you can take it to PM if it's going to be personal... anyhow, looks like we're having lots of problems... i don't even know where to begin now... twotters, i agree with you. the politics here in this country ain't easy. @parsifal: what's the biggest concern over these consultants? their lacking in qualifications? their lack of worth in helping our nation retrieve a higher FAA Category? thanks... re transferring the airport to Clark: would this affect only the international flights or will this affect domestic ones too? my opinion regarding this is that passengers going to southern regions would have harder time getting to their places and traffic might be affected since these folks would have to necessarily go through Manila... since, i've never gone out of the country, you could probably enlighten me on this concern... thanks...
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last paragraph: thank you very much for this, parsifal... would try to look for that civil service law... perhaps a higher pay can help solve this problem... what do you think?
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clark international airport
all the international airports i mentioned are connected to their capital cities by fast trains. the ninoy aquino international airport will continue to operate to serve the domestic operations and as an alternative international airport. i would like to impress to you that the present operations at the NAIA are really congested and it has caused tremendous fuel cost to all airlines and somehow has become quite unsafe, too. i myself have a near miss a few months ago.about the present DG who refuses to relinguish his office to P-Noy, he was the NAIA manager for all the years that the airport deteriorated to its present state. he also used to be port manager at batangas. the airport used to have ILS(precision approach) but now has only non-precision approach. this airport navigational equipment is the responsibility of the airport authority. it would have been better if terminal 3 have been constructed at clark. this would have been the start of the effort to move the intl opns to clark. the CAR can be found in the house library, i am sure
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consultants
These are the consultants at CAAP:
1. Those who are in the payroll of ICAO - these are qualified airline pilots(mostly retired) hired by ICAO to perform regular checks on local airline pilots. This was resorted to because there are no qualified organic pilots who can perform these task. It was discovered by FAA and ICAO that single engine Cessna- rated pilots are checking B747 and Airbus airline pilots for the past years. This is of course downright anomalous. This is one of the reasons why we were downgraded to Category 2. The pay of these consultants are way above Civil Service mandated pay. Their pay is taken from the ICAO budget which is also funded by our government.
2. TheICAO personnel (foreigners) themselves are consultants of CAAP hired to help upgrade the quality of service and operations of the Agency. They are here to assist CAAP in resolving the issues raised by FAA and ICAO in their previous audit which resulted in our downgrading to Category 2.
Organic pilots have resented these measures because in a way it has sidelined them and prevented them from enjoying the juicy travels and perdiems when they join the airline pilots in their recurrent training usually done in simulators in foreign countries. They were given the opportunity to get qualification training for the different aircraft being used by the airlines but they all failed in their training.
There is really a grave behavioural problem obtaining at the CAAP.
The complaints of our ICAO consultants is that their recommendations are not being adopted by the CAAP. Politics gets in the way sometimes especially when the subject targetted is an airline or flying school which is protected by a politician.
It is really a merry go round in this beloved country of ours.
1. Those who are in the payroll of ICAO - these are qualified airline pilots(mostly retired) hired by ICAO to perform regular checks on local airline pilots. This was resorted to because there are no qualified organic pilots who can perform these task. It was discovered by FAA and ICAO that single engine Cessna- rated pilots are checking B747 and Airbus airline pilots for the past years. This is of course downright anomalous. This is one of the reasons why we were downgraded to Category 2. The pay of these consultants are way above Civil Service mandated pay. Their pay is taken from the ICAO budget which is also funded by our government.
2. TheICAO personnel (foreigners) themselves are consultants of CAAP hired to help upgrade the quality of service and operations of the Agency. They are here to assist CAAP in resolving the issues raised by FAA and ICAO in their previous audit which resulted in our downgrading to Category 2.
Organic pilots have resented these measures because in a way it has sidelined them and prevented them from enjoying the juicy travels and perdiems when they join the airline pilots in their recurrent training usually done in simulators in foreign countries. They were given the opportunity to get qualification training for the different aircraft being used by the airlines but they all failed in their training.
There is really a grave behavioural problem obtaining at the CAAP.
The complaints of our ICAO consultants is that their recommendations are not being adopted by the CAAP. Politics gets in the way sometimes especially when the subject targetted is an airline or flying school which is protected by a politician.
It is really a merry go round in this beloved country of ours.
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parsifal, i haven't got hold of the civil service law, will be buying within this week, i think. if you don't mind, can i ask the following questions:
1)what's the pay rate of organic pilots in private companies here/abroad?
2)what's the pay rate mandated by the civil service law?
3)what's the pay rate given to retired airline pilots as consultants of CAAP?
thank you...
1)what's the pay rate of organic pilots in private companies here/abroad?
2)what's the pay rate mandated by the civil service law?
3)what's the pay rate given to retired airline pilots as consultants of CAAP?
thank you...
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pay differences
1. When I say organic pilots, I am referring to pilots who are employed/assigned as regular employees of CAAP. There is a new pay scheme submitted for approval of the Civil Service Commission. Their proposed pay is from 40T-50T depending on their seniority and position. This pay scheme is posted in the bulletin boards at the CAAP head office. The CAAP is inviting pilot applicants for regular employment.
2. The consultant pilots hired by ICAO are receiving 80T-100T. As I have mentioned previously, they are retired airline pilots. They are the ones who now checks the airline pilots during their recurrent training in a simulator in other countries. They are given per diems and hotel accommodations when they do the checks. This was the privilege removed from the organic pilots mentioned above because of their lack of qualifications.
3. A captain of an A320 aircraft at PAL or Cebu Pacific can earn as much as 250T net of taxes.
4. A captain of the same aircraft receives at least twice that much in other airlines in the region. That is why there is now an exodus of pilots from our local airlines. The present airline of their choice is Hongkong Airline and Vietnam Airlines. There are some going to India, Emirates, China and Korea.
5. I will retire soon and maybe I can help as a consultant also thru the ICAO.
2. The consultant pilots hired by ICAO are receiving 80T-100T. As I have mentioned previously, they are retired airline pilots. They are the ones who now checks the airline pilots during their recurrent training in a simulator in other countries. They are given per diems and hotel accommodations when they do the checks. This was the privilege removed from the organic pilots mentioned above because of their lack of qualifications.
3. A captain of an A320 aircraft at PAL or Cebu Pacific can earn as much as 250T net of taxes.
4. A captain of the same aircraft receives at least twice that much in other airlines in the region. That is why there is now an exodus of pilots from our local airlines. The present airline of their choice is Hongkong Airline and Vietnam Airlines. There are some going to India, Emirates, China and Korea.
5. I will retire soon and maybe I can help as a consultant also thru the ICAO.
Last edited by parsifal; 1st Nov 2010 at 12:58. Reason: grammar
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to second parsifal, suvarnabhumi is about 30 to 60 mins from downtown bangkok. KLIA and KLCCT are abt 30-40 mins by train and 60 mins by bus/car from downtown Kuala Lumpur. i agree that Clark should have been ideal to serve Manila as the distance to NAIA (about 100kms one way) is comparable to the set up in other ASEAN countries.
however i'd like to emphasize that the only time Clark will be feasible is if there is a fast link from Clark to Manila, such as a train link. on my last visit i found that with the impressive new NLEX, you can go from Clark to north manila in about 40 mins, so im pretty sure a train link extending from a central station in, say, makati, will do the job. however if parsifal's suggestion to make NAIA the domestic hub is adopted, then that means it should be a terminal-to-terminal link from NAIA to Clark as no international passenger should have to experience security and transport nightmares just to transfer planes for his final destination in, say, palawan or virac.
i actually favor to just move everything out to Clark and sell the land where NAIA currently sits. im sure the land will command premium price as it is adjacent to makati, the fort, and old Manila/ Roxas boulevard. i'm wondering maybe the money raised from that sale would be enough to finance the central station and train link plus terminal upgrades of Clark? if not enough maybe it can form the government's equity in a JV with a private company, such as the current noisemakers in Clark, MVP. (assuming corruption is tamed of course...) or maybe the government can provide the transport link, then bid out the passenger and cargo terminals to a private company under the BOT for a 25 year lease. i think it's definitely feasible and we can have a new terminal in 5-7 yrs, a glowing milestone for the next CAAP head.
or of course we can also wait for one big plane crash in NAIA where hundreds of passengers plus informal settlers plus travellers in the SLEX go up in flames (god forbid!) before the government is pushed to do something about it.
however i'd like to emphasize that the only time Clark will be feasible is if there is a fast link from Clark to Manila, such as a train link. on my last visit i found that with the impressive new NLEX, you can go from Clark to north manila in about 40 mins, so im pretty sure a train link extending from a central station in, say, makati, will do the job. however if parsifal's suggestion to make NAIA the domestic hub is adopted, then that means it should be a terminal-to-terminal link from NAIA to Clark as no international passenger should have to experience security and transport nightmares just to transfer planes for his final destination in, say, palawan or virac.
i actually favor to just move everything out to Clark and sell the land where NAIA currently sits. im sure the land will command premium price as it is adjacent to makati, the fort, and old Manila/ Roxas boulevard. i'm wondering maybe the money raised from that sale would be enough to finance the central station and train link plus terminal upgrades of Clark? if not enough maybe it can form the government's equity in a JV with a private company, such as the current noisemakers in Clark, MVP. (assuming corruption is tamed of course...) or maybe the government can provide the transport link, then bid out the passenger and cargo terminals to a private company under the BOT for a 25 year lease. i think it's definitely feasible and we can have a new terminal in 5-7 yrs, a glowing milestone for the next CAAP head.
or of course we can also wait for one big plane crash in NAIA where hundreds of passengers plus informal settlers plus travellers in the SLEX go up in flames (god forbid!) before the government is pushed to do something about it.
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legal_consultant
P-Noy only gets around 60k monthly salary. If you can justify to the Philippine government that a government employee like an airworthiness inspector or a check pilot who are just subordinate to the President can get more salary than him, then your problem is solved!
A rank and file employee cannot get a bigger paycheck than his company President/CEO.
last paragraph: thank you very much for this, parsifal... would try to look for that civil service law... perhaps a higher pay can help solve this problem... what do you think?
A rank and file employee cannot get a bigger paycheck than his company President/CEO.
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good morning, captains... just some important note:
i am really sorry if i could not yet make a research that's up to th standards of some of us here. Here are my reasons:
(1) my papers are not yet fully accomplished. later tonight i will know whether the chairman of the committee has already signed the contract. geeez... i don't know why it's keeping them long...
(2) this research is not one of my priority researches. this is just among the "other tasks" written in my contract. but then, this is the only task assigned to me until now. regardless, i'm already doing my research...
(3) i was hospitalized for more than a week near the finals period. just imagine that! i don't even think that i've already fully-recovered from my sickness. my grades dropped thereafter.
(4) finals period arrived so i have to focus on it first.
(5) lastly, sembreak!
anyhow, my parents told me not to give too much attention on this "work" of mine. they told me to focus on my studies first. starting next week, i have to discipline daw myself (ie surf the internet just once a week...). in the meantime, if it's okay with any of you, can you help me by sending documents relevant to my research via e-mail? my e-mail ad is: [email protected] Thanks!
i am really sorry if i could not yet make a research that's up to th standards of some of us here. Here are my reasons:
(1) my papers are not yet fully accomplished. later tonight i will know whether the chairman of the committee has already signed the contract. geeez... i don't know why it's keeping them long...
(2) this research is not one of my priority researches. this is just among the "other tasks" written in my contract. but then, this is the only task assigned to me until now. regardless, i'm already doing my research...
(3) i was hospitalized for more than a week near the finals period. just imagine that! i don't even think that i've already fully-recovered from my sickness. my grades dropped thereafter.
(4) finals period arrived so i have to focus on it first.
(5) lastly, sembreak!
anyhow, my parents told me not to give too much attention on this "work" of mine. they told me to focus on my studies first. starting next week, i have to discipline daw myself (ie surf the internet just once a week
...). in the meantime, if it's okay with any of you, can you help me by sending documents relevant to my research via e-mail? my e-mail ad is: [email protected] Thanks!
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P-Noy only gets around 60k monthly salary. If you can justify to the Philippine government that a government employee like an airworthiness inspector or a check pilot who are just subordinate to the President can get more salary than him, then your problem is solved!
A rank and file employee cannot get a bigger paycheck than his company President/CEO.
A rank and file employee cannot get a bigger paycheck than his company President/CEO.
Is that the amount of peanuts the guys in ATO/CAAP are being paid a month?
Here goes the saying: Who pays peanuts will get monkeys! How can anyone survive in ATO/CAAP without corruption? And I always thought you guys in the islands are being paid well and you need corruption to support your vices.....might be wrong......you really need this money to support your families.
What a shame! Who wants to work there if there are no proper payslips?
You'll stay in your mud-hole until the devil grills ya! At least you have cheap San Miguel Beer and nice looking girls but you have nothing to offer in aviation except peanuts.