Indonesian Aviation
why only RW15 for jet? the letdown?
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Age limits
Slight change of thread, but still Indonesian Aviation. Can anyone tell me what the age limit for ATPL pilots (in Command) is in Indonesia. Done a lot of Google searches but can't find any info so far. Thanks.
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Aircraft Number Requirements
Nov 2nd, 2010
The days are numbered for many smaller airlines in Indonesia, with new regulations coming into force requiring them to operate at least ten vessels.
By January 12th 2012 all Indonesian airlines must operate at least ten aircraft, with a minimum of five to be owned by the airline company, while the remaining five may be rented. Failure to comply with the new regulation could see airlines having their operating certification withdrawn by the Ministry of Transport.
Edward A. Silooy, the Director of the Air Traffic section of the Department of Transportation, said the matter would not be postponed again, that January 12th 2012 was the final deadline for compliance.
The new law is to protect passengers [from small, financially unsound operators]. If they don’t operate ten vessels they will be shut down.
Companies that did not have sufficient capital to purchase at least five aircraft, and rent five others, could not be allowed to fly, he went on, in order to ensure safety standards.He said the government did not want to see any more disasters and airline company failures, like that of Adam Air.
A further requirement of the law is that operators must present a five year financial and company plan to the ministry.
The airlines which currently do not meet the requirements are:
- Riau Airlines (operates 5)
- KALStar Aviation (operates 2)
- Pelita Air Service (operates 3)
- Travira Air (operates 2)
- Trigana Air Service (operates 12, ownership status unclear)
- Indonesian AirAsia (operates 15, none owned)
- Travel Express (not known)
- Dirgantara Air Service (not known)
The Secretary-General of the Indonesia National Air Carriers Association (INACA), Tengku Burhanuddin, complains that many of his members are unable to meet the 10 plane requirement because of a worldwide market shortage of viable aircraft, the situation made worse by limited ability to access credit from banks. Tengku said it was likely some airlines would have to merge to survive. (Bisnis Indonesia)
Fleet Requirements
Absolute rubbish it is. There is no discernable link between fleet size and safety. At best it could make the job of oversight easier for the DGCA if there was consolodation, given this is the primary reason for the EU ban.
However, they did envoke 'Adam Air' certainly not a small airline. Adam Air Mk II (Lion Air) and Merpati prove that fleet size does not prevent accidents.
Travira (definitely operate a lot more than 2 aircraft) in any audit would surely be classified as far safer than the Lion Air or Merpati.
1 step forward and 2 steps back I guess.
However, they did envoke 'Adam Air' certainly not a small airline. Adam Air Mk II (Lion Air) and Merpati prove that fleet size does not prevent accidents.
Travira (definitely operate a lot more than 2 aircraft) in any audit would surely be classified as far safer than the Lion Air or Merpati.
1 step forward and 2 steps back I guess.
Thread Starter
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As with any of these fleet size rules it makes the barrier to entry that much harder. It may make some sense for the RPT operations but a blanket policy is really going to harm aviation here.
Indonesia is a developing country with so many opportunities to develop new cargo and passenger runs and many new potential charter operators will just give up , the cost to start up a new operation in the future will to $20 to $30 million , better to sit in your villa in bali and get a massage.
Once these geniuses dream these rules up it's very difficult to get them to back off.
For me personally it will be good for business in the short term to sell off aircraft as operators close their doors but in the long run it's bad
Indonesia is a developing country with so many opportunities to develop new cargo and passenger runs and many new potential charter operators will just give up , the cost to start up a new operation in the future will to $20 to $30 million , better to sit in your villa in bali and get a massage.
Once these geniuses dream these rules up it's very difficult to get them to back off.
For me personally it will be good for business in the short term to sell off aircraft as operators close their doors but in the long run it's bad
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I can’t help but agree with Massey058, this is rubbish and will do nothing to improve the overall safety performance of Indonesian aviation. There is no link between fleet size and safety, if this were the case then Merpati would be just a (bad) memory while Travira would be acknowledged as the standard for everyone else to aspire to. Whatever happened to the much vaunted ‘operator safety audits’ to raise standards and reverse the EU ban? Let’s wait for ‘Shell Management’ to enlighten us as to the true purpose of this somewhat bizarre ruling.
Massey058: Yes of course Travira have more than two aircraft but it appears the ruling applies to Part 121 operators whereas the bulk of Travira’s fleet is operated under Part 135.
Yep, one step forward, two steps back…….
Massey058: Yes of course Travira have more than two aircraft but it appears the ruling applies to Part 121 operators whereas the bulk of Travira’s fleet is operated under Part 135.
Yep, one step forward, two steps back…….
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Indonesia new 121 regulation
To All,
This regulation was formulated in panic.
There is also a rule of 20 yearsold for first registration and limit of 35 years for planes.
Indonesia Aviation has grown by 26%+ (correct me if I am wrong) in 2009 while 99% of the World were heading South.
Yes, there are many opportunities in Aviation in Indonesia. Like Jakarta CGI is the main hub for domesitic transfer. This can be extend to a lot more with better Air Space control.
I remember when I was flying in Brisbane, Australia. My safety pilot told me, when there were more than a handful of planes in the air, ATC would get panic. While I was in California, during a busy day, I could be number four to land.
Number of Airplanes, Age of Airplanes are not related to safety. Maintenance. operation practice and the willingness of Management to commit to Safety are the keys.
Pilots training and attitude are also important. Once I was landing my slow C172 and Kona Airport, Hawaii. It was late at 2100 LT and the airport already turned uncontrolled. I declared my intension on downwind. A B737 pilot called in "We will slow down for you." That meant a lot to a C172 pilot.
This regulation was formulated in panic.
There is also a rule of 20 yearsold for first registration and limit of 35 years for planes.
Indonesia Aviation has grown by 26%+ (correct me if I am wrong) in 2009 while 99% of the World were heading South.
Yes, there are many opportunities in Aviation in Indonesia. Like Jakarta CGI is the main hub for domesitic transfer. This can be extend to a lot more with better Air Space control.
I remember when I was flying in Brisbane, Australia. My safety pilot told me, when there were more than a handful of planes in the air, ATC would get panic. While I was in California, during a busy day, I could be number four to land.
Number of Airplanes, Age of Airplanes are not related to safety. Maintenance. operation practice and the willingness of Management to commit to Safety are the keys.
Pilots training and attitude are also important. Once I was landing my slow C172 and Kona Airport, Hawaii. It was late at 2100 LT and the airport already turned uncontrolled. I declared my intension on downwind. A B737 pilot called in "We will slow down for you." That meant a lot to a C172 pilot.
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Send us your dollars
Hell Management! LOL!
Yeah, that's just what we need: more Oil Company Advice. It isn't enough that the Oil-Mafia destroyed the world-wide Aviation business with fuel extortion and racketeering, now they want to give us air safety advice.
If we just would break up the oil monopolies into hundreds of regional companies, competition would set in again and fuel would become almost worthless. As it is now, tankers sit offshore unwilling to dock in Houston until oil demand drives prices up.
A truly Communist set of management techniques. Oh, and the solution to any accident from Hell Management is to harass and monitor flight crews just like they do their coolies in the slave oil fields.
Thanks anyway for your oil input, but no thanks. If you didn't drain the lifeblood out of airlines with your greed, they might be able to afford new parts and better equipment and training. We don't want airlines operating like the Exxon Valdez without essential double-hulls (redundancy) just because some whip-cracker in management wants a personal bonus at the expense of safety and knows he can get away with blaming the crew.
Oil Industry Windfall Profits Tax Now!
And, this minimum fleet fiasco is going to endanger safety, imho. Many airlines have unairworthy airframes sitting around that they have parked for parts. They will be tempted to patch these wrecks back together to satisfy the minimum fleet number requirement.
CC
Yeah, that's just what we need: more Oil Company Advice. It isn't enough that the Oil-Mafia destroyed the world-wide Aviation business with fuel extortion and racketeering, now they want to give us air safety advice.
If we just would break up the oil monopolies into hundreds of regional companies, competition would set in again and fuel would become almost worthless. As it is now, tankers sit offshore unwilling to dock in Houston until oil demand drives prices up.
A truly Communist set of management techniques. Oh, and the solution to any accident from Hell Management is to harass and monitor flight crews just like they do their coolies in the slave oil fields.
Thanks anyway for your oil input, but no thanks. If you didn't drain the lifeblood out of airlines with your greed, they might be able to afford new parts and better equipment and training. We don't want airlines operating like the Exxon Valdez without essential double-hulls (redundancy) just because some whip-cracker in management wants a personal bonus at the expense of safety and knows he can get away with blaming the crew.
Oil Industry Windfall Profits Tax Now!
And, this minimum fleet fiasco is going to endanger safety, imho. Many airlines have unairworthy airframes sitting around that they have parked for parts. They will be tempted to patch these wrecks back together to satisfy the minimum fleet number requirement.
CC
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Sad Day for and not a good way to start a year for Indonesian Aviation..today, 11th January..Ministry of transpotation just declare that Mandala Airlines will stop to operate starting tomorrow, 12th January because financial difficulty. Mandala will be given 45 days to "repair" themself. Mandala is a good and quite reliable private owned Airlines from Indonesia with fleet of mix Airbus A319/A320 aircraft. It has good service in both domestic and international routes. They served Indonesian Skies many years back started around 1970 and 1980..from L-188 Electra to Boeing 737-200adv/400 and finally Airbus A320 family. It's an Airlines that loved by many and it has a lot of loyal customer..
All of Mandala pilots is flying in another airlines right now so they still can produce flying hours and will be back to Mandala when the company is healthy enough to operate. The First Officer currently fliying Garuda Airbus A330 fleet and for the captain, I've heard some of them flying with Tiger Air and another airlines who operate Airbus A320 family/A330..
Let's hope for the best for Mandala Airlines so they can fly again in better shape than before..it's currently the oldest private owned Airlines in Indonesia that still exist until today..an Airline that is to good to die..I still can't believe my ears when I heard that news
Their 25 unit of Airbus A320 they ordered recently should arrive in a few months....hope for the best for Mandala Airlines.
All of Mandala pilots is flying in another airlines right now so they still can produce flying hours and will be back to Mandala when the company is healthy enough to operate. The First Officer currently fliying Garuda Airbus A330 fleet and for the captain, I've heard some of them flying with Tiger Air and another airlines who operate Airbus A320 family/A330..
Let's hope for the best for Mandala Airlines so they can fly again in better shape than before..it's currently the oldest private owned Airlines in Indonesia that still exist until today..an Airline that is to good to die..I still can't believe my ears when I heard that news
Their 25 unit of Airbus A320 they ordered recently should arrive in a few months....hope for the best for Mandala Airlines.
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One of my training captains is an ex Mandala A320 pilot. He tells me they went from having 12 A320s when he joined to now only operating 4 (well, until today). Can't believe this as well, especially when the aviation industry is booming in Indonesia. There won't be any problems for their current flight crew to find jobs elsewhere; many airlines in Indonesia are still short of pilots, especially captains.
By all accounts after the terrible overrun accident in Medan in 2005 they really turned themselves around.
Unfortunately safety costs and it must have been hard to compete with a juggernaut like Lion Air.
I sincerely hope they can restructure and carry on operating.
Unfortunately safety costs and it must have been hard to compete with a juggernaut like Lion Air.
I sincerely hope they can restructure and carry on operating.
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I read from another forum that, Mandala will be Tiger Airways Indonesia..
AFAIK, one of Tiger owenr is Indigo that also owned Mandala. It's like a joke! Like you get out from one problem, and move to one problem.. no problem solving..
Mandala won't die... Love you Mandala..
AFAIK, one of Tiger owenr is Indigo that also owned Mandala. It's like a joke! Like you get out from one problem, and move to one problem.. no problem solving..
Mandala won't die... Love you Mandala..
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today's rumor...
Blue Bird Group (Taxi Group) interested to invest at Mandala Airlines.. They had come to Mandala HQ to start negotiations.
Blue Bird group has very good reputation in Taxi service.. I think it's quite good for Blue Bird and Mandala..
Blue Bird has very good reputation in taxi service, compare to Mandala has very good in flight service.
more information about Blue Bird Group Blue Bird Group - Jakarta, Indonesia
No TR please..
Blue Bird Group (Taxi Group) interested to invest at Mandala Airlines.. They had come to Mandala HQ to start negotiations.
Blue Bird group has very good reputation in Taxi service.. I think it's quite good for Blue Bird and Mandala..
Blue Bird has very good reputation in taxi service, compare to Mandala has very good in flight service.
more information about Blue Bird Group Blue Bird Group - Jakarta, Indonesia
No TR please..
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SUSI air
@ training wheels
Tried sending my resume to SUSI also i came across pt sky aviation through pilotcareercentre dot com, read the thread about SUSI in this forum, hope the situation has changed, if it has then it would be a perfect opportunity for low timers like me to apply and fly there, any further help would be appreciated, i hold about 250hrs and am seriously interested to fly to build my hours, money is secondary.
Tried sending my resume to SUSI also i came across pt sky aviation through pilotcareercentre dot com, read the thread about SUSI in this forum, hope the situation has changed, if it has then it would be a perfect opportunity for low timers like me to apply and fly there, any further help would be appreciated, i hold about 250hrs and am seriously interested to fly to build my hours, money is secondary.
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Harilal: Quote:
"i hold about 250hrs and am seriously interested to fly to build my hours, money is secondary".
Really now....if it's true as you say and you're serious about building up hours....and money is secondary?
Then you will should have no problems pulling out USD$60K from your bank account and getting a B738 rating,
to build up 1400 hours as an F/O on a new generation jet, instead of playing games in a C208.
"i hold about 250hrs and am seriously interested to fly to build my hours, money is secondary".
Really now....if it's true as you say and you're serious about building up hours....and money is secondary?
Then you will should have no problems pulling out USD$60K from your bank account and getting a B738 rating,
to build up 1400 hours as an F/O on a new generation jet, instead of playing games in a C208.
