DGCA
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DGCA
hi.. i wanted to know that as to how much time does the DGCA take to process all the papers for the CPL.
Also whats the procedure for the type rating...i mean before we go for it do we have to give some kind of exams in india??
Also whats the procedure for the type rating...i mean before we go for it do we have to give some kind of exams in india??
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@black knight.. u r first question is pretty complicated to answer .. usually abt 30 days.. mine took 40 days for my Indian CPL MER IR FRTOL to be issued..(converted)
and for ur second question .. in my airline we are sent for our initial TR to an foreign country so the paperwork is between my airline and DGCA .. and NO I dont need to write any exams..
If your airline plans to get u typed in India itself then you need to write the DGCA techinical exam for ure specific aircraft..
If you are planning to go for TR all by yourself I heard u need to apply for some kind of NOC from DGCA which i again heard was a pain in the ass..
@ bad attitude.. i was planning to ask for the A350 XWB TR
hope that helps..
regards,
IAC967
and for ur second question .. in my airline we are sent for our initial TR to an foreign country so the paperwork is between my airline and DGCA .. and NO I dont need to write any exams..
If your airline plans to get u typed in India itself then you need to write the DGCA techinical exam for ure specific aircraft..
If you are planning to go for TR all by yourself I heard u need to apply for some kind of NOC from DGCA which i again heard was a pain in the ass..
@ bad attitude.. i was planning to ask for the A350 XWB TR
hope that helps..
regards,
IAC967
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@indair: i actually prefer the A350 to the A380 ... 
one doesn't need to give any exams if you're doing an Airbus TR, but if you do a TR on lets say a B738, then you have to give the tech /specific papers.
and why people are going for a TR without getting into a company first, beats the hell outta me ...
: sad:
one doesn't need to give any exams if you're doing an Airbus TR, but if you do a TR on lets say a B738, then you have to give the tech /specific papers.
and why people are going for a TR without getting into a company first, beats the hell outta me ...
: sad:
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why people are going for a TR without getting into a company first, beats the hell outta me ...
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no offence taken ...
it's just that i have seen more than few cases where kids have gone and spent their parents money and not their own ... parents are generally gullible, if the kid makes a long face and says "i wanna be a pilot", they will bend over backwards trying to fulfill his/her dream.
a lot of families are gonna get into serious trouble. i had a look at the dgca admit list for the july session ... 4700 people sitting for it!
maybe by the year 2035 all these people will get a job, maybe not ...
it's just that i have seen more than few cases where kids have gone and spent their parents money and not their own ... parents are generally gullible, if the kid makes a long face and says "i wanna be a pilot", they will bend over backwards trying to fulfill his/her dream.
a lot of families are gonna get into serious trouble. i had a look at the dgca admit list for the july session ... 4700 people sitting for it!
maybe by the year 2035 all these people will get a job, maybe not ...
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@bad_attitude
I totally agree with you. Have myself come across several kids who have convinced their poor dads to sell off their ancestral property, to fund for their CPL training.
@IndAir967
I personally think the one with 1500 hours TT WITH ATPL should get chosen over the one only CPL + A320/B737 Rating.
However, I know some blokes who got into kingfisher and Indigo when the so called aviation boom was beginning it's long downward descent (around early 2008), because they had got a self sponsored A320 TR from Miami.
They flew on FATA for about 6-8 months and meanwhile got their CPL converted to Indian CPL. Once converted, the company took care of getting the A320 endorsement on their Indian CPL.
So I guess, in the end it depends on :
1. How badly the company needs you. (basic demand supply situation)
2. Whether it will cost less to train you and put you online, rather than CPL holder without any TR.
3. ... as always the fundamental rule ... how well "connected" you are with that airline.
Ofcourse, point no.3 would also mean the same person with the right "connections" would not have to go for a self sponsored Type Rating in the first place !!
I totally agree with you. Have myself come across several kids who have convinced their poor dads to sell off their ancestral property, to fund for their CPL training.
@IndAir967
I personally think the one with 1500 hours TT WITH ATPL should get chosen over the one only CPL + A320/B737 Rating.
However, I know some blokes who got into kingfisher and Indigo when the so called aviation boom was beginning it's long downward descent (around early 2008), because they had got a self sponsored A320 TR from Miami.
They flew on FATA for about 6-8 months and meanwhile got their CPL converted to Indian CPL. Once converted, the company took care of getting the A320 endorsement on their Indian CPL.
So I guess, in the end it depends on :
1. How badly the company needs you. (basic demand supply situation)
2. Whether it will cost less to train you and put you online, rather than CPL holder without any TR.
3. ... as always the fundamental rule ... how well "connected" you are with that airline.
Ofcourse, point no.3 would also mean the same person with the right "connections" would not have to go for a self sponsored Type Rating in the first place !!
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Look like these days CPL with low hours will do, preferably with no type rating so there will be less barrier to pay their way in.
Payment in the form of uber high extra charges on company approved type rating course and company training. In future they may even push it, make cpl holders work without pay for a year or so. After all that cpl holders will fly less hours while they recruit a new breed of willing pilots. Then the f.o may need to pay for command in the future.
I admit this is extreme pessimism so please shower me with optimistic viewpoints, I would love to hear them.
Payment in the form of uber high extra charges on company approved type rating course and company training. In future they may even push it, make cpl holders work without pay for a year or so. After all that cpl holders will fly less hours while they recruit a new breed of willing pilots. Then the f.o may need to pay for command in the future.
I admit this is extreme pessimism
so please shower me with optimistic viewpoints, I would love to hear them.
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F.O.B.s
Honestly, I think it's only going to take one incident to change the way airlines in India recruit their pilots. Right now they might prefer someone with a CPL and no additional training except a type rating, but that's going to change very soon. Better to gain some experience as a FI somewhere and build some hours. IMO I don't see how people can make the jump directly to jets after getting a CPL. This trend, coupled with inadequate infrastructure is a breeding ground for an aviation disaster waiting to happen. And it's not going to be pretty when it does happen.
The airlines should be hiring the applicant with more experience and then paying for the type rating if they have to, instead of trying to cut costs and selecting recruits on the basis of their bank balance and compromising on safety.
The airlines should be hiring the applicant with more experience and then paying for the type rating if they have to, instead of trying to cut costs and selecting recruits on the basis of their bank balance and compromising on safety.
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IMO I don't see how people can make the jump directly to jets after getting a CPL. This trend, coupled with inadequate infrastructure is a breeding ground for an aviation disaster waiting to happen. And it's not going to be pretty when it does happen.
The airlines should be hiring the applicant with more experience and then paying for the type rating if they have to, instead of trying to cut costs and selecting recruits on the basis of their bank balance and compromising on safety.
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dgtl887
Several reasons.
1. The number of planes in the air was a lot lower a few years back.
2. There were/are a lot of senior expats as well as experienced Indian commanders with flying experience all over the world who maintained some order in the skies.
3. The pressure on pilots to reduce costs has never been as high as it is today.
Within the last few months it has been made adequately clear that even though incidents do happen, the attitude that is required to prevent them in the future is completely missing. There is no accountability. Investigations are not carried out promptly. The party at fault is not brought to task. Several near misses have occurred within the last few months. Several pilots have been found with alcohol levels above the permissible limits.
Combine all these factors along with two kinds of pilots in the cockpit: one one who started flying the jets with 200 hours and is now awaiting his/her captaincy and another who is fresh of the board with no experience whatsover on the jets except his/her type rating. Yes, maybe the training is adequate enough to provide these pilots the skills to fly the planes, but when it's crunch time decision making is what counts and that ONLY comes with experience.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I want accidents to happen! But you can't ignore the facts.
Why do you require working rights in OTHER countries!? There are thousands of CPL holders in India and thousands more that will be generated over the next few years. Why isn't there adequate infrastructure for flight schools right here in our country where young pilots can gain experience as instructors and pass on the baton to future pilots?? Why do we have to go to XYZ country to get a CPL?
This has always been a problem with India. When we should have been focusing on the agricultural sector during independence, we went ahead and spent money on industrialization. They want to build skyscrapers without any real foundation.
The same thing is happening in the aviation industry. We want to make a jump directly to a major aviation hub but where is the foundation? The government is so concerned about bailing out airlines but what about us? If they truly wanted to make aviation into a sustainable industry they need to focus on the grassroots.
explain to me how the guys coming up for their captaincy now (the one's who flew the shiny 320's and the 737's at 200 hours) haven't buggered up too badly until now ?
1. The number of planes in the air was a lot lower a few years back.
2. There were/are a lot of senior expats as well as experienced Indian commanders with flying experience all over the world who maintained some order in the skies.
3. The pressure on pilots to reduce costs has never been as high as it is today.
Within the last few months it has been made adequately clear that even though incidents do happen, the attitude that is required to prevent them in the future is completely missing. There is no accountability. Investigations are not carried out promptly. The party at fault is not brought to task. Several near misses have occurred within the last few months. Several pilots have been found with alcohol levels above the permissible limits.
Combine all these factors along with two kinds of pilots in the cockpit: one one who started flying the jets with 200 hours and is now awaiting his/her captaincy and another who is fresh of the board with no experience whatsover on the jets except his/her type rating. Yes, maybe the training is adequate enough to provide these pilots the skills to fly the planes, but when it's crunch time decision making is what counts and that ONLY comes with experience.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I want accidents to happen! But you can't ignore the facts.
How do you suggest that pilots in India (the 200hr variety) get those hours with no working rights in other countries ?
This has always been a problem with India. When we should have been focusing on the agricultural sector during independence, we went ahead and spent money on industrialization. They want to build skyscrapers without any real foundation.
The same thing is happening in the aviation industry. We want to make a jump directly to a major aviation hub but where is the foundation? The government is so concerned about bailing out airlines but what about us? If they truly wanted to make aviation into a sustainable industry they need to focus on the grassroots.
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Why do you require working rights in OTHER countries!? There are thousands of CPL holders in India and thousands more that will be generated over the next few years. Why isn't there adequate infrastructure for flight schools right here in our country where young pilots can gain experience as instructors and pass on the baton to future pilots?? Why do we have to go to XYZ country to get a CPL?
This has always been a problem with India. When we should have been focusing on the agricultural sector during independence, we went ahead and spent money on industrialization. They want to build skyscrapers without any real foundation.
The same thing is happening in the aviation industry. We want to make a jump directly to a major aviation hub but where is the foundation? The government is so concerned about bailing out airlines but what about us? If they truly wanted to make aviation into a sustainable industry they need to focus on the grassroots.
This has always been a problem with India. When we should have been focusing on the agricultural sector during independence, we went ahead and spent money on industrialization. They want to build skyscrapers without any real foundation.
The same thing is happening in the aviation industry. We want to make a jump directly to a major aviation hub but where is the foundation? The government is so concerned about bailing out airlines but what about us? If they truly wanted to make aviation into a sustainable industry they need to focus on the grassroots.
But, it is what it is. It's not going to change soon. GA doesn't provide any kind of viable employment to most people in India.
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Why do you require working rights in OTHER countries!? There are thousands of CPL holders in India and thousands more that will be generated over the next few years. Why isn't there adequate infrastructure for flight schools right here in our country where young pilots can gain experience as instructors and pass on the baton to future pilots?? Why do we have to go to XYZ country to get a CPL?
You are suggesting an ideal scenario which will not happen even in the next 200 years with the way things are going. Anyone with basic knowledge of the state of affairs in this country right now will whole heartedly agree. There will be some very good changes in some other departments and ministries and education system etc ... but flying clubs producing quality education/training is a DISTANT DISTANT DREAM.
I personally know SEVERAL guys/gals who trained in India and who have never flown above 3000 feet MSL, have NEVER seen any Jepp chart, except once during some beer party when CFI was in a mood to show off his aviation experience and knowledge, have not done ANYTHING MORE than a basic take off and landing and traffic patterns in the local field. NEVER banked the wings on their Cessna-152 more than 20-30 degrees.
I dont want to mentione anyone's names or any flying clubs as it would lead to problems on a public forum.
I'll just say that these AERONAUTICALLY ILLITERATE guys and gals are from several "well known" flying schools/clubs located in remote towns all over India.
Guys sell dope to get some flying hours from the CFI and buy him premium scotch whiskey and Girls sleep with the CFI to try and finish their course real fast.
I know you'll probably accuse me of painting everyone with the same brush ... PERHAPS .. but trust me, the image of Indian Aviation has been MARRED and SCREWED up because of such elements.
Would you rather prefer some guy with 1000 hours total time with 60% of the time FAKE LOGGED, another 20% time logged flying circuits in a remote uncontrolled field and the rest logged by flying between no more than 2 or 3 airports VFR... to be on the Right Seat of a Multi-Crew Transport Jet ?
Or a guy who has earned his CPL from US, Canada, Aus etc and with a self-sponsored Type Rating ?
Now if the same guy got his flying credentials and experience OUTSIDE, then it is another thing..
Hence, we have to go to XYZ country (preferably USA, Canada) to really know what aviation is FROM THE GROUND UP. GA to Airline, to charter, etc.
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@bad_attitude
you can also add some middle east countries, Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, and even Australia to that list.
Qantas has also had ab-initio programs for their own citizens.
india is not the only place where 200 hr wonders get into the right seat of a jet ... in europe people go from CPL+TR to the right seat of a B744. i kid you not.
Qantas has also had ab-initio programs for their own citizens.
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fully agree with your post shanx.. its not a bad case of generalization.. its the apathy that we need to live with... i ive heard of similar horrid tales from indian flying clubs. . logbook flying girls sleeping for flying and wot not.. .. i agree we have the right roots ,,, i myself have a license from canada and flying was an experience that is impossible to replicate if u fly anywhere in India..
i have got the dgca license 3 months back so in total have not flown in around 8 -9 months.. after this tell me shanx and others how can u have a suitable yardstick to check our flying skills which have been rusting for the lack of flying .. believe me i feel so inept for not having flown in months .. that i get nightmares of me ballooning and stalling my cessna.. or not being able to recover of a spin.. after all these months of no flying .. a guy from canada or us of a or nz aus.. etc or our very own logbook pilot from india have the same flashy cpl to flaunt... but who gets d job in the end is a question best left for others to answer..
personally all this no flying scenario is wrecking me inside .very soon i might have to press the panic button and rush to canada for an FI rating
atleast even though i might have to survive as a dispatcher in d first few months.. bt atleast id be closer to the planes.. probably hop on fr a ride as a passenger or something...
something or the sound of stalling horn in my dreams will make for a daily occurence
i have got the dgca license 3 months back so in total have not flown in around 8 -9 months.. after this tell me shanx and others how can u have a suitable yardstick to check our flying skills which have been rusting for the lack of flying .. believe me i feel so inept for not having flown in months .. that i get nightmares of me ballooning and stalling my cessna.. or not being able to recover of a spin.. after all these months of no flying .. a guy from canada or us of a or nz aus.. etc or our very own logbook pilot from india have the same flashy cpl to flaunt... but who gets d job in the end is a question best left for others to answer..
personally all this no flying scenario is wrecking me inside .very soon i might have to press the panic button and rush to canada for an FI rating
atleast even though i might have to survive as a dispatcher in d first few months.. bt atleast id be closer to the planes.. probably hop on fr a ride as a passenger or something...
something or the sound of stalling horn in my dreams will make for a daily occurence
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good post shanx
and tangowithtushar does your dreams just stop with stalling or
do u apply the correct recovery procedure as well.. if u did so.. u are
lucky enough to practise flying in ur dreams
Now after reading shanx's post i realised one thing that i ve been missing
in united states as an flight instructor .. the girls part..
never knew it
..as such i was flying every day as instructor so really do not care about
alcohol and i dont have any other vices but missed out on the girls though..
JUST KIDDING GUYS !
As an flight instructor the most satisfying aspect
would be the making of an Aviator rather than just a Pilot.
Let me tell you this, a person who comes to the field of aviation with the love and passion for it are the ones that survive and not the ones that come for other factors..
I am very sure an number of you guys would fly an airplane irrespective of the salary you are being paid .. just for the love of flying u ve got in you..
Let me get this straight..
DO NOT GET TERRIFIED BY THE 4000 CPL HOLDERS BEING JOBLESS ..
Hardly 1/8th of them are employable..
Many hold CPLs just to give a competition and nothing else..
So you guys keep trying..
There is a wealth of knowledge in pprune.. i would recommend you
keep studying and update yourself with ..
My Suggestion to a fresh CPL Holder:
Yes times are bad.. but if you ve really got it in you then its really a matter of time..
1st consider your options.. dont keep looking at the heavy metal jets..
there are various options out there.. what matters to pilot is that he stays in sky as long as possible..
2nd consider being an flight instructor only if you think you ve got what it
takes to teach a student.. You may be an excellent pilot but if you dont communicate your ideas and thoughts then avoid being an instructor..
3rd look keep an eye on a lot of charter companies out there.. u neva know when they might start hiring..
4th look for other jobs such as jump pilot or bush pilot etc..
If you are unable to make it into the flying position..
Then keep yourself and your license up to date.. remember if you are really passionate about flying you will definitely make it to that right seat..
Try looking for some kind of jobs that are associated with aviation in a way it makes it easier to getting hired through contacts you develop there..
Also do a lot of flying on the PC Flt Sim .. especially the instrument part..
There is some great information in our pprune tech log sub forum.. gain an insight from some highly experienced pilots/engineers who post their thoughts on their aircraft .. A really great place to be..
Flying is afterall a constant learning process..
THE TRUTH:
Also remember being a pilot, we must be extremely humble .. For your information.. no airline gives a damn about what we first officers think..
we are the least cared people in the airline.. so if u ve got any DESI STUDENT PILOT ATTITUDE.. drop it off immedeately.. it will really help you..
Last but not least. look for the latest updates i post in my Indian Aviation Vacancy Thread..
All the best
and tangowithtushar does your dreams just stop with stalling or
do u apply the correct recovery procedure as well.. if u did so.. u are
lucky enough to practise flying in ur dreams
Now after reading shanx's post i realised one thing that i ve been missing
in united states as an flight instructor .. the girls part..
never knew it..as such i was flying every day as instructor so really do not care about
alcohol and i dont have any other vices but missed out on the girls though..
JUST KIDDING GUYS !
As an flight instructor the most satisfying aspect
would be the making of an Aviator rather than just a Pilot.
Let me tell you this, a person who comes to the field of aviation with the love and passion for it are the ones that survive and not the ones that come for other factors..
I am very sure an number of you guys would fly an airplane irrespective of the salary you are being paid .. just for the love of flying u ve got in you..
Let me get this straight..
DO NOT GET TERRIFIED BY THE 4000 CPL HOLDERS BEING JOBLESS ..
Hardly 1/8th of them are employable..
Many hold CPLs just to give a competition and nothing else..
So you guys keep trying..
There is a wealth of knowledge in pprune.. i would recommend you
keep studying and update yourself with ..
My Suggestion to a fresh CPL Holder:
Yes times are bad.. but if you ve really got it in you then its really a matter of time..
1st consider your options.. dont keep looking at the heavy metal jets..
there are various options out there.. what matters to pilot is that he stays in sky as long as possible..
2nd consider being an flight instructor only if you think you ve got what it
takes to teach a student.. You may be an excellent pilot but if you dont communicate your ideas and thoughts then avoid being an instructor..
3rd look keep an eye on a lot of charter companies out there.. u neva know when they might start hiring..
4th look for other jobs such as jump pilot or bush pilot etc..
If you are unable to make it into the flying position..
Then keep yourself and your license up to date.. remember if you are really passionate about flying you will definitely make it to that right seat..
Try looking for some kind of jobs that are associated with aviation in a way it makes it easier to getting hired through contacts you develop there..
Also do a lot of flying on the PC Flt Sim .. especially the instrument part..
There is some great information in our pprune tech log sub forum.. gain an insight from some highly experienced pilots/engineers who post their thoughts on their aircraft .. A really great place to be..
Flying is afterall a constant learning process..
THE TRUTH:
Also remember being a pilot, we must be extremely humble .. For your information.. no airline gives a damn about what we first officers think..
we are the least cared people in the airline.. so if u ve got any DESI STUDENT PILOT ATTITUDE.. drop it off immedeately.. it will really help you..
Last but not least. look for the latest updates i post in my Indian Aviation Vacancy Thread..
All the best
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IndAir thanks a lot for taking the time to morally support tushar and the rest of us!! That was a great post.
Tushar, I know a ppl holder in our school who did not fly for nearly 2 years, and he could still land the cessna on his first flight centerline and did not stall during the flight. Apparently his turns, and maneuvers were ok too. The fact that you are dreaming about it will keep you aware of the required speed for all the phases.
I was told to keep practising instrument flying and approaches on the microsoft simulator.
If the panic button is not viable option right now, then hop on a cessna in one of the flying clubs in india and do just an hour of flying.
Tushar, I know a ppl holder in our school who did not fly for nearly 2 years, and he could still land the cessna on his first flight centerline and did not stall during the flight. Apparently his turns, and maneuvers were ok too. The fact that you are dreaming about it will keep you aware of the required speed for all the phases.
I was told to keep practising instrument flying and approaches on the microsoft simulator.
If the panic button is not viable option right now, then hop on a cessna in one of the flying clubs in india and do just an hour of flying.