Unpredictable DGCA
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MDdog
Keep in mind that the level of GA in the US is 5 times larger than the rest of the entire world.. which is to say, I would expect all but a small percentage of accidents in GA to be in the US. Moreover, as a flight Instructor working at a busy flight school in the late 90's in the Southern California area, over a period of 1 year there were 5 fatal accidents ALL involving either European or Indian students..
keep in mind that some times insurance amount for the aircraft is more than its actual worth,and if it"s a pilot error,then operator gets insurance amount after accident easily.
and when there are European or indian student is involved there are no legal hassels in the country ,so insurance claims sattles faster into operators pocket.
Keep in mind that the level of GA in the US is 5 times larger than the rest of the entire world.. which is to say, I would expect all but a small percentage of accidents in GA to be in the US. Moreover, as a flight Instructor working at a busy flight school in the late 90's in the Southern California area, over a period of 1 year there were 5 fatal accidents ALL involving either European or Indian students..
keep in mind that some times insurance amount for the aircraft is more than its actual worth,and if it"s a pilot error,then operator gets insurance amount after accident easily.
and when there are European or indian student is involved there are no legal hassels in the country ,so insurance claims sattles faster into operators pocket.
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The problem with this gay(getsetgo) is his attitude. And he is not the only one. Some Indians believe they are the best of the best. Most of them are really nice human beings. But those who think they are "the choosen ones" are really hard to deal with. How to "talk" to a guy who thinks he has the right answer for every question? 
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This thread is unbelievable. I'd like to make the following points:
1. DGCA are a bunch of monkies. Everyone knows that. There is little point repeating the fact again and again and again.
2. dgca has changed massively in the past 2 years. A lot still needs to change, but they have improved. Please be patient.
3. It is aboslutely ridiculous to extend the general lack of intelligence displayed by the dgca, to the rest of the Indian population.
4. FAA exams are a joke.Recently I had 3 FAA CPL holders trying to convince me that a C-172 can glide 6nm for every 1000 feet of height loss. Infact one assured me that he had glided his C-172 5nm from 1500AGL with no problem. Maybee if he was riding a jetstream.
1. DGCA are a bunch of monkies. Everyone knows that. There is little point repeating the fact again and again and again.
2. dgca has changed massively in the past 2 years. A lot still needs to change, but they have improved. Please be patient.
3. It is aboslutely ridiculous to extend the general lack of intelligence displayed by the dgca, to the rest of the Indian population.
4. FAA exams are a joke.Recently I had 3 FAA CPL holders trying to convince me that a C-172 can glide 6nm for every 1000 feet of height loss. Infact one assured me that he had glided his C-172 5nm from 1500AGL with no problem. Maybee if he was riding a jetstream.
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Lets pour some wide cut aviation fuel over this thread. It may not be the DGCA, but the political players who are playing with fire.
ICAO Audit Of India Finds Fault With Safety, Training
ICAO told India in an audit 18 months ago that it was below world averages
on primary aviation legislation, safety oversight of airlines and the
qualifications and training of its technical personnel.
India responded with initial legislation to expand the powers of the
country's aviation regulatory authority — the office of the Director
General of Civil Aviation (DGCA). But a review of the ICAO's findings by
Aviation Week & Space Technology observes that many issues raised by the
audit, which was conducted in October 2006 and delivered last July, have
gone unanswered. Chances of significant action in the near future are
unlikely because political leaders are focused on elections less than a
year away.
Much of ICAO's report focuses on inadequate staffing levels to properly
oversee India's rapidly expanding commercial aircraft market. But it also
singles out conflicts of interest that could jeopardize safety.
The nation has 385 civil transports in service, with hundreds more on
order. A standard gauge would call for at least 50 flight operations
inspectors to meet current demand. Instead, the Flight Inspection
Directorate has only one position filled to oversee flight operations
across the Indian subcontinent.
Based in Delhi, the DGCA has four regional and 10 sub-regional offices. On
paper it is supposed to have 242 technical officers, but more than 40% of
those positions are vacant. Meanwhile, the Aerodrome Standards Directorate
has a 50% vacancy rate.
"There is no authority in India currently performing regulatory and
surveillance functions of the [air navigation service] providers," the ICAO
report said.
The government-owned Airports Authority of India (AAI) mixes responsibility
of overseeing the nation's air traffic control systems and the
administration and management of more than 80 international and domestic
airports. The fact that the DGCA also is a part-time board member of the
AAI "has the effect of limiting a clear separation of roles between the
aviation regulator" and the nation's air navigation services provider, ICAO
says.
DGCA does not have a communication, navigation and surveillance (CNS)
inspector to oversee maintenance and inspection of CNS facilities. Instead,
it relies on experts from the AAI when its representatives visit AAI
facilities for inspections, ICAO says.
India enacted legislation in November 2007 to expand its Aircraft Act to
permit the DGCA to perform safety oversight. It is to license personnel for
air traffic control and certification, inspection and regulations for
Communication, Navigation, Surveillance/Air Traffic management (CNS/ATM)
facilities. The amended Aircraft Act also raises penalties for
non-compliance. But much of that legislation remains to be carried out. A
runway safety program has not been implemented, and acceptable levels for
ATC safety within airspaces have not been set.
No defined training program has been set for technical personnel performing
safety oversight. Recurring training for licensing staff who oversee flight
operations, cabin safety and dangerous good inspections has not been set.
Although an ad hoc training program has been developed by the airworthiness
directorate, it is not fully implemented, the report says.
An abbreviated field training program has been adopted because of the
urgent need for air traffic controllers in rapidly expanding cities such as
Mumbai, where traffic movements have grown 40% over the past two years and
now exceed 600 per day. The abbreviated training program involves ATC
operators gaining a single rating with the expectation that they will gain
full performance training later, when additional staff is available to give
it to them. Normally, full-performance training is a five-year process.
***************
ICAO Audit Of India Finds Fault With Safety, Training
ICAO told India in an audit 18 months ago that it was below world averages
on primary aviation legislation, safety oversight of airlines and the
qualifications and training of its technical personnel.
India responded with initial legislation to expand the powers of the
country's aviation regulatory authority — the office of the Director
General of Civil Aviation (DGCA). But a review of the ICAO's findings by
Aviation Week & Space Technology observes that many issues raised by the
audit, which was conducted in October 2006 and delivered last July, have
gone unanswered. Chances of significant action in the near future are
unlikely because political leaders are focused on elections less than a
year away.
Much of ICAO's report focuses on inadequate staffing levels to properly
oversee India's rapidly expanding commercial aircraft market. But it also
singles out conflicts of interest that could jeopardize safety.
The nation has 385 civil transports in service, with hundreds more on
order. A standard gauge would call for at least 50 flight operations
inspectors to meet current demand. Instead, the Flight Inspection
Directorate has only one position filled to oversee flight operations
across the Indian subcontinent.
Based in Delhi, the DGCA has four regional and 10 sub-regional offices. On
paper it is supposed to have 242 technical officers, but more than 40% of
those positions are vacant. Meanwhile, the Aerodrome Standards Directorate
has a 50% vacancy rate.
"There is no authority in India currently performing regulatory and
surveillance functions of the [air navigation service] providers," the ICAO
report said.
The government-owned Airports Authority of India (AAI) mixes responsibility
of overseeing the nation's air traffic control systems and the
administration and management of more than 80 international and domestic
airports. The fact that the DGCA also is a part-time board member of the
AAI "has the effect of limiting a clear separation of roles between the
aviation regulator" and the nation's air navigation services provider, ICAO
says.
DGCA does not have a communication, navigation and surveillance (CNS)
inspector to oversee maintenance and inspection of CNS facilities. Instead,
it relies on experts from the AAI when its representatives visit AAI
facilities for inspections, ICAO says.
India enacted legislation in November 2007 to expand its Aircraft Act to
permit the DGCA to perform safety oversight. It is to license personnel for
air traffic control and certification, inspection and regulations for
Communication, Navigation, Surveillance/Air Traffic management (CNS/ATM)
facilities. The amended Aircraft Act also raises penalties for
non-compliance. But much of that legislation remains to be carried out. A
runway safety program has not been implemented, and acceptable levels for
ATC safety within airspaces have not been set.
No defined training program has been set for technical personnel performing
safety oversight. Recurring training for licensing staff who oversee flight
operations, cabin safety and dangerous good inspections has not been set.
Although an ad hoc training program has been developed by the airworthiness
directorate, it is not fully implemented, the report says.
An abbreviated field training program has been adopted because of the
urgent need for air traffic controllers in rapidly expanding cities such as
Mumbai, where traffic movements have grown 40% over the past two years and
now exceed 600 per day. The abbreviated training program involves ATC
operators gaining a single rating with the expectation that they will gain
full performance training later, when additional staff is available to give
it to them. Normally, full-performance training is a five-year process.
***************
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a post i made a while ago about the FAA drew a lot of flak...but if you think your story about the C 172 is amazing.....I've got more unbelieveable stories to tell you about the boys and girls that trained to the very "tough and exacting" standards of the FAA....I had to pacify the pro FAA guys by retracting my statement....but if you wanna know the truth...the FAA and it standards are really a joke...I guess we all know that but we just prefer to hide from the truth...so I guess i reopened the can of worms..
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black gun
This guy is definatly on the sauce....his liver has to give up soon...should see some of his posts on the Singaporeair Captain recruitment thread.
then i will also fly on FAA Licence
This guy is definatly on the sauce....his liver has to give up soon...should see some of his posts on the Singaporeair Captain recruitment thread.
then i will also fly on FAA Licence
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Sorry mate I am an Australian and fly on a Australian CAA licence, have been doing so since 1989, have met and flown with a number of FAA pilots and I do not see anything wrong with them. Cheers
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Black gun
Thx for your concern about my liver, I had my medical done with CME New Delhi And got fit certificate from the best doctors who are expert in aviation medicals.
Soon you will be getting letter from DGCA for your organs checks to renew FATA.
My flying experience has been good with every body irrespective of there nationalities. There are pilots flying in India from all over the globe.
I never tried to see the nationality of my colleagues till now. It is not required for flying the a/c, As flying is done according to the AFMs on board.
considering more than 20 states in India and each state having more than one culture, it is just impossible to fly by looking at face, color, or state they come from. Easiest is just follow AFMs .
Mostly I have observed cabin attendants asking expats about there nationality etc.
Next time when I fly with expat colleague ,I will try to look in to the nationalities and if he happens to be FAA pilot ,will check him out and may debrief you about my experience . ( as I was thinking about it, but will not go to this level)
You saw nothing wrong with them , I will look for…… what is right with them
I think they are good so they are here.
.
As you are flying from 1989, You must be International Examiner.
I don’t think there is any need to follow the levels of your aviation world and your flying expertise in ICAO countries.
Thanks for the insight of your flying and licensing state.
No need for me to check any nationality.
AFMs are good enough for a good cockpit.
I can tell you ………..,you are no where near to Australians.
Thx for your concern about my liver, I had my medical done with CME New Delhi And got fit certificate from the best doctors who are expert in aviation medicals.
Soon you will be getting letter from DGCA for your organs checks to renew FATA.
My flying experience has been good with every body irrespective of there nationalities. There are pilots flying in India from all over the globe.
I never tried to see the nationality of my colleagues till now. It is not required for flying the a/c, As flying is done according to the AFMs on board.
considering more than 20 states in India and each state having more than one culture, it is just impossible to fly by looking at face, color, or state they come from. Easiest is just follow AFMs .
Mostly I have observed cabin attendants asking expats about there nationality etc.
Next time when I fly with expat colleague ,I will try to look in to the nationalities and if he happens to be FAA pilot ,will check him out and may debrief you about my experience . ( as I was thinking about it, but will not go to this level)
You saw nothing wrong with them , I will look for…… what is right with them
I think they are good so they are here.
.
As you are flying from 1989, You must be International Examiner.
I don’t think there is any need to follow the levels of your aviation world and your flying expertise in ICAO countries.
Thanks for the insight of your flying and licensing state.
No need for me to check any nationality.
AFMs are good enough for a good cockpit.
I can tell you ………..,you are no where near to Australians.
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resevered cat
RDR
Based in Delhi, the DGCA has four regional and 10 sub-regional offices. On
paper it is supposed to have 242 technical officers, but more than 40% of
those positions are vacant. Meanwhile, the Aerodrome Standards Directorate
has a 50% vacancy rate.
next year you will see vacancy rate 70% to 90%
because there are elections and reserved cat seats cannot be filled by unreserved...........it has to be carried forward till reserved pass minimum grade.
Based in Delhi, the DGCA has four regional and 10 sub-regional offices. On
paper it is supposed to have 242 technical officers, but more than 40% of
those positions are vacant. Meanwhile, the Aerodrome Standards Directorate
has a 50% vacancy rate.
next year you will see vacancy rate 70% to 90%
because there are elections and reserved cat seats cannot be filled by unreserved...........it has to be carried forward till reserved pass minimum grade.
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getsetgo
"Soon you will be getting letter from DGCA for your organs checks to renew FATA."
Oh jolly good. Nice shot in the foot that will be.
That will effectively ground say 30% of the expats, thereby creating a greater shortage of pilots.
What you are saying in essence, is the DGCA will not be accepting Australian CAA medicals from now on. If that were the case then I guess the Australians could hastily arrange a quick check of their own, to "satisfy their requirements" for all the male Indian student pilots flying around Australia. I guess a prostrate examination with a ** inch finger, would do for starters.
Any idea where you will find the replacements? NASA perhaps?
India either complies with the validation agreements required by ICAO in full or it rejects them in full. The DGCA cannot have it both ways.
BTW. That organ check you had. Did that include your brain?
"Soon you will be getting letter from DGCA for your organs checks to renew FATA."
Oh jolly good. Nice shot in the foot that will be.
That will effectively ground say 30% of the expats, thereby creating a greater shortage of pilots.
What you are saying in essence, is the DGCA will not be accepting Australian CAA medicals from now on. If that were the case then I guess the Australians could hastily arrange a quick check of their own, to "satisfy their requirements" for all the male Indian student pilots flying around Australia. I guess a prostrate examination with a ** inch finger, would do for starters.
Any idea where you will find the replacements? NASA perhaps?
India either complies with the validation agreements required by ICAO in full or it rejects them in full. The DGCA cannot have it both ways.
BTW. That organ check you had. Did that include your brain?
Last edited by weido_salt; 28th Apr 2008 at 06:50.
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Once again sorry to dissapoint you Getsetgo, I do not have an Indian licence or FATA...I do not fly in India nor do I have any plans to do so. I guess the best aviation doctors in the world from CME New Delhi will not be looking at my organs any time in the near future.....I also have a current Singapore ATPL I guess that too is no good....bugger hope I do not fall of the pearch soon.
Weido Salt and others I really should not get into a slinging with this clown but could not help myself after reading some of his posts (him haveing a go at FAA piolts, met a few in my time and they are great guys to fly with).....yes I know it is silly....are Indian pilots really like that...rather dissapointing.
Weido Salt and others I really should not get into a slinging with this clown but could not help myself after reading some of his posts (him haveing a go at FAA piolts, met a few in my time and they are great guys to fly with).....yes I know it is silly....are Indian pilots really like that...rather dissapointing.
Last edited by black gun; 28th Apr 2008 at 10:50.
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weido salt
Soon you will be getting letter from DGCA for your organs checks to renew FATA."
Oh jolly good. Nice shot in the foot that will be.
That will effectively ground say 30% of the expats, thereby creating a greater shortage of pilots.
What you are saying in essence, is the DGCA will not be accepting Australian CAA medicals from now on. If that were the case then I guess the Australians could hastily arrange a quick check of their own, to "satisfy their requirements" for all the male Indian student pilots flying around Australia. I guess a prostrate examination with a ** inch finger, would do for starters.
Any idea where you will find the replacements? NASA perhaps?
India either complies with the validation agreements required by ICAO in full or it rejects them in full. The DGCA cannot have it both ways.
BTW. That organ check you had. Did that include your brain?
you are right
they check brain also and they are fully qualified aviation experts cirtified by ICAO.
so far all licences are accepted for issue of FATA
but soon once the backlog of pilots doing medicals is over i pridict all will be put throu same tests.
Max Health care and appolo are doing about 50-75 candidates daily bases,once they are done with back log ....
..these hospitals will be so free to tell DGCA ......give me more
understand these are private hospitals and they are in bussiness
each hospital daily doES 100,000 + Rs bussiness ,printing medical reports with latest world class Zero error machines.
thats the reason i always said donot change the system....for sake of all
before because CME couldnot handle any more candidates so DGCA had no option but to issue fata based on medicals from other states
now if you guess 30% will not pass...i can tell you those 30% are printing there medical cirtificates at home.
and coming to 3rd world bribing DGCA babus and flying.
DGCA first job is SAFETY
rest comes later
shortage of pilots not at all DGCA concern but the airlines..............
And if you do medicals at IAM you can walk in to NASA and see the world from 30km above the earth because these doctors are expert in aviation medicine +medical for asrtonauts.
Soon you will be getting letter from DGCA for your organs checks to renew FATA."
Oh jolly good. Nice shot in the foot that will be.
That will effectively ground say 30% of the expats, thereby creating a greater shortage of pilots.
What you are saying in essence, is the DGCA will not be accepting Australian CAA medicals from now on. If that were the case then I guess the Australians could hastily arrange a quick check of their own, to "satisfy their requirements" for all the male Indian student pilots flying around Australia. I guess a prostrate examination with a ** inch finger, would do for starters.
Any idea where you will find the replacements? NASA perhaps?
India either complies with the validation agreements required by ICAO in full or it rejects them in full. The DGCA cannot have it both ways.
BTW. That organ check you had. Did that include your brain?
you are right
they check brain also and they are fully qualified aviation experts cirtified by ICAO.
so far all licences are accepted for issue of FATA
but soon once the backlog of pilots doing medicals is over i pridict all will be put throu same tests.
Max Health care and appolo are doing about 50-75 candidates daily bases,once they are done with back log ....
..these hospitals will be so free to tell DGCA ......give me more
understand these are private hospitals and they are in bussiness
each hospital daily doES 100,000 + Rs bussiness ,printing medical reports with latest world class Zero error machines.
thats the reason i always said donot change the system....for sake of all
before because CME couldnot handle any more candidates so DGCA had no option but to issue fata based on medicals from other states
now if you guess 30% will not pass...i can tell you those 30% are printing there medical cirtificates at home.
and coming to 3rd world bribing DGCA babus and flying.
DGCA first job is SAFETY
rest comes later
shortage of pilots not at all DGCA concern but the airlines..............
And if you do medicals at IAM you can walk in to NASA and see the world from 30km above the earth because these doctors are expert in aviation medicine +medical for asrtonauts.
Last edited by getsetgo; 28th Apr 2008 at 18:48. Reason: add
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O. I. C.
Yes you are right.
The DGCA needs verification from the issuing authority, before an FATA is issued or renewed. If they don't trust the verification process, then why would checking a pilot's organs, rectify the situation? Would it not be a little more sensible to check with the issuing AME, who issued the current medical certificate? This can easily be done.
In the case of a failed medical, it should be on record and be shown during the license verification process, should it not?
Or is it a case of "now let's start hassling Captains" and free up some LHS's, for the 500 hour TT whizkids to show their "metal" and get off on a one way ego trip?
I'll watch from afar.
Where's my tin hat darling?
Yes you are right.
The DGCA needs verification from the issuing authority, before an FATA is issued or renewed. If they don't trust the verification process, then why would checking a pilot's organs, rectify the situation? Would it not be a little more sensible to check with the issuing AME, who issued the current medical certificate? This can easily be done.
In the case of a failed medical, it should be on record and be shown during the license verification process, should it not?
Or is it a case of "now let's start hassling Captains" and free up some LHS's, for the 500 hour TT whizkids to show their "metal" and get off on a one way ego trip?
I'll watch from afar.
Where's my tin hat darling?
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there you are
now DGCA is asking mobile no. of the doctor who issues the cirtificate.
DGCA becoming hitech like FAA
3RD WORLD WAS I THINK OKKKK
now every 15 year old kid in 1.1 billion population is looking to become PILOT
if DGCA becomes efficient like FAA then.......
in 2 years india will be out sourcing pilots......like FAA does
it will fullfil aviation miniters statment in parliament for not having Expats
many pilots will be galaventing at MG ROAD
some will be serving tea and coffee to the babus joging to there desks....
because no coffee dispencers are installed yet.
and salaries will vanish
airlines will be picking and offerring peanuts for good job
best is not to change the system until you know the system
do the job and go for jog is better
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Oh quiet.
Jogging of course is great exercise, for those more able than I.
My trouble is my left leg. You see, it is wooden.
Just between you and I. Well a leg ain't an organ is it? You know how these things can get blown out of all proportion, so please keep mum on that.
Jogging of course is great exercise, for those more able than I.
My trouble is my left leg. You see, it is wooden.
Just between you and I. Well a leg ain't an organ is it? You know how these things can get blown out of all proportion, so please keep mum on that.
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weido_salt
yep i kept mum for 155 posts but forced to, write these side effects of making DGCA to first world standreds..
DGCA is pridictable but aviation world not so much some times it takes the thermals and soars but at times max thrust also fails to take it out of CB.
yep i kept mum for 155 posts but forced to, write these side effects of making DGCA to first world standreds..
DGCA is pridictable but aviation world not so much some times it takes the thermals and soars but at times max thrust also fails to take it out of CB.
