Unpredictable DGCA
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medical issue
rotorhead
The post you pasted in this thread was about a pilot whose medical issues were posted by his colleagues on this forum, and that pilot lost his job and same colleagues sent him condolences.
So in that thread I tried to tell them not to do such things as may be DGCA also looking and following the thread.
But this matter was already in the media, poor fellow lost due to circumstances.
That’s why I felt like asking these people if they are pilots/dispatchers/or schedulers.....................you can fill what they can be.........here.
you are free to asume my status as ATC,OR DGCA etc
The post you pasted in this thread was about a pilot whose medical issues were posted by his colleagues on this forum, and that pilot lost his job and same colleagues sent him condolences.
So in that thread I tried to tell them not to do such things as may be DGCA also looking and following the thread.
But this matter was already in the media, poor fellow lost due to circumstances.
That’s why I felt like asking these people if they are pilots/dispatchers/or schedulers.....................you can fill what they can be.........here.
you are free to asume my status as ATC,OR DGCA etc
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What?
Yeah, in fact I made a post on that thread. That wasn't my interpretation at all - in fact the subject was "ratted out" by a disgruntled former employee. In any case your grammar and syntax are so difficult to decipher I cannot always understand your point, or even if there is a point. You may well have some valid and valuable insights, but, my friend, they are practically incomprehensible. I must agree (in a somewhat softer tone) with some of the other posters - you either need an interpreter to type in your posts or a language refresher. Best of luck to you. 
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Command of English Language
Rotorhead,
By no means am I defending this Clown, however I do remember him saying something about having to use a keyboard that translates his language to English. His command of the English Language is poor at best, and whatever it is that he uses to translate, be it keyboard or Translator, are no better. It is either that, or he spends most of his waking hours swimming in a bottle of Old Monk!!
I tend to agree that he most likely works for the DGCA. That being said, it is no wonder that the DGCA is so out of control. Have you ever noticed how rules suddenly come out of nowhere, and they are not published on paper or anywhere for us to see? Take for example the Age 60 issue for FAA Licensed Pilots. A ruling was made to stop us from flying past 60 in India. Was that ruling ever published? No, it was simply word of mouth!
Some overly impressed with himself idiot just decided one day that he was going to toss that particular iron into the fire. Most likely because his palm had been greased with the right amount of Rupee's!!
The same thing applied in my situation, nothing in writing was ever handed to me or anyone else. Simply an email from my employer stating that the DGCA had reviewed my medical records. Which I assure you they did not. Some Desk Jockey who has no clue just decided that I wasn't medically fit to fly in the dirty air of India, and we all know about the extremely low opinion they have of FAA Medicals. Of course they fail to mention how a portion of Indian Pilots, are given a pass by some Medical Corpsman on their Physicals, because the Doctor couldn't seem to get his ass to work that day.
ICAO, the FAA et. al. are aware of what is going on over there. Can they do something about it? Or better yet will they? Probably not, the country has us by the balls. We need their government support in that region. Large Corporations set up call centers their, thus saving themselves millions in salaries. It is another case of money talks! We are screwed, and in our heart of hearts we all know it, but we choose to ignore it.
Someday after their are a few piles of smoldering metal laying around, because of some insane DGCA ruling, something may get done.
By no means am I defending this Clown, however I do remember him saying something about having to use a keyboard that translates his language to English. His command of the English Language is poor at best, and whatever it is that he uses to translate, be it keyboard or Translator, are no better. It is either that, or he spends most of his waking hours swimming in a bottle of Old Monk!!
I tend to agree that he most likely works for the DGCA. That being said, it is no wonder that the DGCA is so out of control. Have you ever noticed how rules suddenly come out of nowhere, and they are not published on paper or anywhere for us to see? Take for example the Age 60 issue for FAA Licensed Pilots. A ruling was made to stop us from flying past 60 in India. Was that ruling ever published? No, it was simply word of mouth!
Some overly impressed with himself idiot just decided one day that he was going to toss that particular iron into the fire. Most likely because his palm had been greased with the right amount of Rupee's!!
The same thing applied in my situation, nothing in writing was ever handed to me or anyone else. Simply an email from my employer stating that the DGCA had reviewed my medical records. Which I assure you they did not. Some Desk Jockey who has no clue just decided that I wasn't medically fit to fly in the dirty air of India, and we all know about the extremely low opinion they have of FAA Medicals. Of course they fail to mention how a portion of Indian Pilots, are given a pass by some Medical Corpsman on their Physicals, because the Doctor couldn't seem to get his ass to work that day.
ICAO, the FAA et. al. are aware of what is going on over there. Can they do something about it? Or better yet will they? Probably not, the country has us by the balls. We need their government support in that region. Large Corporations set up call centers their, thus saving themselves millions in salaries. It is another case of money talks! We are screwed, and in our heart of hearts we all know it, but we choose to ignore it.
Someday after their are a few piles of smoldering metal laying around, because of some insane DGCA ruling, something may get done.
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well NG Expat...quite a few people around the world think that the FAA medical is a joke..it's not just the Indian authorities ....and if I have to be honest about it...the FAA medicals and the exams are a joke.....
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WX change
NG expat ref post 23 by you
quate
The same thing applied in my situation, nothing in writing was ever handed to me or anyone else. Simply an email from my employer stating that the DGCA had reviewed my medical records.
********************************************************
i guess now you will go for medicals
Or employer will send you one way ticket in writing, hand delivery, for your longest tripp of the carrier.
check ticket when you recieve ,ensure it is by air not rail tkt or road transportation.
And it will be confirmed tkt i am sure on that angle.
its good to be mentally prepared at a place where things change tooo fast,rules regulations etc.
its like changing tyres to snow tyres before the snow actualy starts(easy to understand, i hope not complex english)
quate
The same thing applied in my situation, nothing in writing was ever handed to me or anyone else. Simply an email from my employer stating that the DGCA had reviewed my medical records.
********************************************************
i guess now you will go for medicals
Or employer will send you one way ticket in writing, hand delivery, for your longest tripp of the carrier.
check ticket when you recieve ,ensure it is by air not rail tkt or road transportation.
And it will be confirmed tkt i am sure on that angle.
its good to be mentally prepared at a place where things change tooo fast,rules regulations etc.
its like changing tyres to snow tyres before the snow actualy starts(easy to understand, i hope not complex english)
The Bumblebee
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Getsetgo,
First thing first, when you are refering to a post # do not use the posts # that you see under the screen name. It updates everytime that person makes another posting and confuses the hell out of us. So you'd be better off using the post # that is there on the top right corner of the posting. Like in this post I will be quoting from your post # 80 & # 85 and not posts by you (currently 67) and it will change to 68 once you answer my post :-p
Now that we have the basics squared away, I don't think NG will be going anywhere. Not because he will get a new medical and not because some paper pusher in your office thinks that he is medically fit again. But due to the fact that someone from his airline will bribe one of the babus in your office (thats the reason he was found medically unfit to begin with). I do not know him personally but he sounds like a sensible guy and in case he'd have to leave India I am sure he will find hundreds of jobs between India and his country. I can bet that he won’t even cross the Indian Ocean before he is offered another job. Now that is not the case for you, is it? If you are caught taking bribe, no one is going to touch you with a barbed pole. So be very very careful my friend.
Also, and I
and
I think you need to get out of your white office, go across the street and catch a blue line bus that will take you to MG Road. Now I know why you guys are so stuck up, you are not getting any, neither at home nor outside and now it shows in your postings too. Perhaps you can do us a favour and use the bribe money for this cause. This way at least you will be pleasant to talk to.
And for the standards of medicals, well, FAA is easy I agree. Do they cut corners, I don't think so. If they did, DGCA or for that matter any other ICAO contracting State will not allow FAA licence holders to fly in their State. I don't see DGCA appointed medical centres performing any additional tests. If anything, it is a humiliating experience. It takes the Airforce guys 6 hours to perform something that shouldn't take more than 30 minutes.
And please do not get me started on the infection control practices of any of the airforce hospitals. I have to piss in the same test tube that has been used thousands of times before? The lab technician who is drawing blood never wears any gloves? The audiometry machine is as archaic as I am and the headset has never been cleaned or sterilised. I can only hope that ENT equipment was sterilised and that it will not be used again before it goes through the sterilising process again.
Next time you find yourself a little motivated (may be right after you've visited MG Road) please go to medical section and pick up any PMR. It has enough dust on it that it will trigger an asthmatic attack and perhaps enough sh*t on it to give you many other airborne disease.
While we are discussing your posts please tell me what Snow Fall are you talking about? The only SNOW that I see falling will be on DGCA. The Civil Aviation ministry has decided to bring in an external DG. What, you do not have any qualified people amongst yourselves? I am sure you are pissed off that an outsider is coming and he/she will be telling you how to do your job properly.
First thing first, when you are refering to a post # do not use the posts # that you see under the screen name. It updates everytime that person makes another posting and confuses the hell out of us. So you'd be better off using the post # that is there on the top right corner of the posting. Like in this post I will be quoting from your post # 80 & # 85 and not posts by you (currently 67) and it will change to 68 once you answer my post :-p
Now that we have the basics squared away, I don't think NG will be going anywhere. Not because he will get a new medical and not because some paper pusher in your office thinks that he is medically fit again. But due to the fact that someone from his airline will bribe one of the babus in your office (thats the reason he was found medically unfit to begin with). I do not know him personally but he sounds like a sensible guy and in case he'd have to leave India I am sure he will find hundreds of jobs between India and his country. I can bet that he won’t even cross the Indian Ocean before he is offered another job. Now that is not the case for you, is it? If you are caught taking bribe, no one is going to touch you with a barbed pole. So be very very careful my friend.
Also, and I
NG EXPAT POST 22
Best thing is when you know rape is inevitable, better you enjoy it.
when you are willing to be f**ked,what any body can do?
Best thing is when you know rape is inevitable, better you enjoy it.
when you are willing to be f**ked,what any body can do?
boeing dream 787
when i f**k i donot look at face, i donot dream ,i concentrate on my job of f**king.
thats how i enjoy my job.
when i f**k i donot look at face, i donot dream ,i concentrate on my job of f**king.
thats how i enjoy my job.
And for the standards of medicals, well, FAA is easy I agree. Do they cut corners, I don't think so. If they did, DGCA or for that matter any other ICAO contracting State will not allow FAA licence holders to fly in their State. I don't see DGCA appointed medical centres performing any additional tests. If anything, it is a humiliating experience. It takes the Airforce guys 6 hours to perform something that shouldn't take more than 30 minutes.
And please do not get me started on the infection control practices of any of the airforce hospitals. I have to piss in the same test tube that has been used thousands of times before? The lab technician who is drawing blood never wears any gloves? The audiometry machine is as archaic as I am and the headset has never been cleaned or sterilised. I can only hope that ENT equipment was sterilised and that it will not be used again before it goes through the sterilising process again.
Next time you find yourself a little motivated (may be right after you've visited MG Road) please go to medical section and pick up any PMR. It has enough dust on it that it will trigger an asthmatic attack and perhaps enough sh*t on it to give you many other airborne disease.
While we are discussing your posts please tell me what Snow Fall are you talking about? The only SNOW that I see falling will be on DGCA. The Civil Aviation ministry has decided to bring in an external DG. What, you do not have any qualified people amongst yourselves? I am sure you are pissed off that an outsider is coming and he/she will be telling you how to do your job properly.
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good website
desi pilot
this website is good
so many come here to vent out.
Thanks for the first paragraph,thats why may be utter confusion on posts.
your hygiene concerns noted.
this website is good
so many come here to vent out.
Thanks for the first paragraph,thats why may be utter confusion on posts.
your hygiene concerns noted.
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Boy, are we off topic ...
On 20 March 2008 Sky Dancer said:
I guess you'd better define "joke" for me.
The exam does seem less extensive than in other countries. I'll note that if something suspicious is found, that situation can quickly reverse. In NG Expat's case, they gave him a chance whereas in other countries he'd just be summarily grounded. In his case grounding doesn't seem justified.
Now last I looked there were about 1 million licensed pilots on this earth. Approximately 800,000 hold US licenses. A`few are "foreigners" who have since gone back home ("dual" licenses, as we see in India often). The vast majority are flying in the US only. Activity is defined mostly by whether the pilot's medical is current.
I don't know the exact percentage, but I'd say most of these are 2nd or 3rd class medicals - even less stringent than my 1st class. If my medical is a joke, than the 3rd class medical is Johnny Carson's (my favorite stand-up comic, God rest his soul) monologue on speed! Note that the glider guys and gals don't require a medical AT ALL!
For all that, one almost never hears of a pilot becoming incapaciataed in flight in the US. It happens, but it's rare. I think the last I heard of one anywhere was a BA f/o recently who, unfortunately, died (correct me if I'm wrong). Presumably he was flying on one of the "unfunny" medicals. Didn't help (and I'm not "crowing" - it's a sad thing all around). I do remember a Continental pilot who died in January of last year (f/o landed safely), but before that I can't think of one, even in GA.
So is the FAA medical a joke, or are the others ridiculous overkill? We can all pick over statistics and argue endlessly, but I'll defend the FAA's procedure. It's worked well for a long time. Just my two cents ...
the FAA medicals and the exams are a joke.....
I guess you'd better define "joke" for me.
The exam does seem less extensive than in other countries. I'll note that if something suspicious is found, that situation can quickly reverse. In NG Expat's case, they gave him a chance whereas in other countries he'd just be summarily grounded. In his case grounding doesn't seem justified.
Now last I looked there were about 1 million licensed pilots on this earth. Approximately 800,000 hold US licenses. A`few are "foreigners" who have since gone back home ("dual" licenses, as we see in India often). The vast majority are flying in the US only. Activity is defined mostly by whether the pilot's medical is current.
I don't know the exact percentage, but I'd say most of these are 2nd or 3rd class medicals - even less stringent than my 1st class. If my medical is a joke, than the 3rd class medical is Johnny Carson's (my favorite stand-up comic, God rest his soul) monologue on speed! Note that the glider guys and gals don't require a medical AT ALL!
For all that, one almost never hears of a pilot becoming incapaciataed in flight in the US. It happens, but it's rare. I think the last I heard of one anywhere was a BA f/o recently who, unfortunately, died (correct me if I'm wrong). Presumably he was flying on one of the "unfunny" medicals. Didn't help (and I'm not "crowing" - it's a sad thing all around). I do remember a Continental pilot who died in January of last year (f/o landed safely), but before that I can't think of one, even in GA.
So is the FAA medical a joke, or are the others ridiculous overkill? We can all pick over statistics and argue endlessly, but I'll defend the FAA's procedure. It's worked well for a long time. Just my two cents ...
The Bumblebee
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Getsetgo,
There is a difference between hygiene and infection. I am not talking about hygiene control but infection control. Of course infection control starts with hygiene control but it doestn't stop there.
Perhaps you want to hand out this document to relevant department.
http://www.who.int/injection_safety/...trol_Final.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infection
Rant out, its time to hit the sack, had a long flying day today and tomorrow flying again so that I can have HOLI off.
To all of you who are in India HAPPY HOLI and play safe. To every one else Happy Easter as well
There is a difference between hygiene and infection. I am not talking about hygiene control but infection control. Of course infection control starts with hygiene control but it doestn't stop there.
Perhaps you want to hand out this document to relevant department.
http://www.who.int/injection_safety/...trol_Final.pdf
Hygiene refers to practices associated with ensuring good health and cleanliness. The scientific term "hygiene" refers to the maintenance of health and healthy living. The term appears in phrases such as personal hygiene, domestic hygiene, dental hygiene, and occupational hygiene and is frequently used in connection with public health. The term "hygiene" is derived from Hygieia, the Greek goddess of health, cleanliness and sanitation. Hygiene is also a science that deals with the promotion and preservation of health. Also called hygienics.
An infection is the detrimental colonization of a host organism by a foreign species. In an infection, the infecting organism seeks to utilize the host's resources to multiply (usually at the expense of the host). The infecting organism, or pathogen, interferes with the normal functioning of the host and can lead to chronic wounds, gangrene, loss of an infected limb, and even death. The host's response to infection is inflammation. Colloquially, a pathogen is usually considered a microscopic organism though the definition is broader, including feces, parasites, fungi, viruses, prions, and viroids. A symbiosis between parasite and host, whereby the relationship is beneficial for the former but detrimental to the latter, is characterised as parasitism. The branch of medicine that focuses on infections and pathogens is infectious disease.
Rant out, its time to hit the sack, had a long flying day today and tomorrow flying again so that I can have HOLI off.
To all of you who are in India HAPPY HOLI and play safe. To every one else Happy Easter as well
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medical centres
desi pilot
It is going to take more than 5 years to provide sterilized tubes and gloves
At any medical centre.
May be you can take your own gear for next medical, or check on the availability of the equipment after 5 years.
That is the penalty you pay to live in 3rd world .
Here even tax payers do not get these facilities.
Your PDF file will gather more dust as already place is full of papers and dust for so many years; & nobody reported any asthmatic attack due to this dust.
No reports on sars, virus, and mad cow decease etc.
You are from first world; your insurance will cover you anyway.
It is going to take more than 5 years to provide sterilized tubes and gloves
At any medical centre.
May be you can take your own gear for next medical, or check on the availability of the equipment after 5 years.
That is the penalty you pay to live in 3rd world .
Here even tax payers do not get these facilities.
Your PDF file will gather more dust as already place is full of papers and dust for so many years; & nobody reported any asthmatic attack due to this dust.
No reports on sars, virus, and mad cow decease etc.
You are from first world; your insurance will cover you anyway.
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medical requirments/comparison
FAA medical standards are based upon medical and health facilities provided by the government to all citizens in general.
So it becomes easy for FAA to have simpler fitness tests since all the citizens are well taken care of by the medical setup.
So comparison is not workable because ICAO states have lot of variation within itself.
Some ICAO states have very good health system, some are far behind.
Under such circumstances ICAO states are having different medical check requirements based on the medical setup in the country and aviation requirements.
So it becomes easy for FAA to have simpler fitness tests since all the citizens are well taken care of by the medical setup.
So comparison is not workable because ICAO states have lot of variation within itself.
Some ICAO states have very good health system, some are far behind.
Under such circumstances ICAO states are having different medical check requirements based on the medical setup in the country and aviation requirements.
The Bumblebee
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5 years for what? To buy a pair of gloves and disposable plastic bottles? Please tell me you are not serious? And where is my 1000 rupees going then? I can go to Apollo or Max or Fortis and get the same tests done for the same amount of money. I am not given a choice here I have to go to likes of IAM/CME.
When was the last time you went to IAM or CME? The guys there who handle our files have started using face masks. Perhaps your buddy in the medical section should do the same lest they wil fall sick sooner or later.
Anyway, back to the topic; my friends who have the required hours been told that they are going to be upgraded. It is a good news from them, most of them deserve to be captains just never had the oppertunity, some of them have previous PIC experience in CRJs, ERJs, ATRs but they came to India to fly the bigger equipment. So good job DGCA for expediting their upgrade. Sorry for the guys who doesn't meet the requirements and will have to leave.
You never know DGCA may come out with another ruling to f*ck everyones lives again as some of us were spared by this rule.
When was the last time you went to IAM or CME? The guys there who handle our files have started using face masks. Perhaps your buddy in the medical section should do the same lest they wil fall sick sooner or later.
Anyway, back to the topic; my friends who have the required hours been told that they are going to be upgraded. It is a good news from them, most of them deserve to be captains just never had the oppertunity, some of them have previous PIC experience in CRJs, ERJs, ATRs but they came to India to fly the bigger equipment. So good job DGCA for expediting their upgrade. Sorry for the guys who doesn't meet the requirements and will have to leave.
You never know DGCA may come out with another ruling to f*ck everyones lives again as some of us were spared by this rule.
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Desi pilot
5 years or more, no time frame…..its 3rd world.
Don’t tell me you are a beggar pilot from first country and cannot afford 1000 rs = 25 $ for yourself.
Unless you were a MacDonald’s waiter in your country and your country could not provide you a job so you landed up in 3RD world.
Quote
I am not given a choice here I have to go to likes of IAM/CME.
This I will tell you later because you are new to new place.
If these medical centres have started using mask means they are handing people infected by many viruses.
my friends who have the required hours been told that they are going to be upgraded. It is good news from them; most of them deserve to be captains just never had the opportunity
India gives every body chance/opportunity,
pilots did not had chance in there own country, its sad.
Opportunist will go down the gutter. New sanitation system introduced.
That means DGCA is on job…its good and it also shows the country gives due respect For qualification and experience.
You are understanding civil aviation ministry. Are you?
5 years or more, no time frame…..its 3rd world.
Don’t tell me you are a beggar pilot from first country and cannot afford 1000 rs = 25 $ for yourself.
Unless you were a MacDonald’s waiter in your country and your country could not provide you a job so you landed up in 3RD world.
Quote
I am not given a choice here I have to go to likes of IAM/CME.
This I will tell you later because you are new to new place.
If these medical centres have started using mask means they are handing people infected by many viruses.
my friends who have the required hours been told that they are going to be upgraded. It is good news from them; most of them deserve to be captains just never had the opportunity
India gives every body chance/opportunity,
pilots did not had chance in there own country, its sad.
Opportunist will go down the gutter. New sanitation system introduced.
That means DGCA is on job…its good and it also shows the country gives due respect For qualification and experience.
You are understanding civil aviation ministry. Are you?
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My definition of a joke would be the same as anyone elses....how else can you explain this ::
^ People who have failed other medicals get a FAA Class 1
^ People who can't clear the exams of other licensing authorities clear the FAA exams...
What else do you call that ???Get real....
^ People who have failed other medicals get a FAA Class 1
^ People who can't clear the exams of other licensing authorities clear the FAA exams...
What else do you call that ???Get real....
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Take it easy Getwetgo....
Getset.....Although I DO understand that its been more than 5 months now since you turned 12,I still cant pardon you the use of the 'F' word more than once in the same sentence son.
So pls go home,study for those all important grammar lessons i spoke of earlier and stop making a vain attempt to wind a good thread. Its the attempt of a 12 year old too....!! Cause maybe its the same as your mental age bubba...and mental health. Please leave the talking to the men here....
So run along son and ask mommy whats for supper....
BD
So pls go home,study for those all important grammar lessons i spoke of earlier and stop making a vain attempt to wind a good thread. Its the attempt of a 12 year old too....!! Cause maybe its the same as your mental age bubba...and mental health. Please leave the talking to the men here....
So run along son and ask mommy whats for supper....
BD
Last edited by boeingdream787; 24th Mar 2008 at 08:06.
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Where Aviation Started
Obviously the history books are completely wrong. The first flight and subsequent development of Aviation were not in the USA. From the postings from Getsetgo and Skydancer, I get the impression it was all accomplished in India!!
Sky Dancer regarding your comment on FAA Medicals. Even with some Dim Wit with the DGCA making an highly uninformed decision about me and my medical situation. Canada saw fit to issue me a 1st Class Medical as well. I just guess the rest of the world is wrong and only you and your cherished DGCA are right!!!
Sky Dancer regarding your comment on FAA Medicals. Even with some Dim Wit with the DGCA making an highly uninformed decision about me and my medical situation. Canada saw fit to issue me a 1st Class Medical as well. I just guess the rest of the world is wrong and only you and your cherished DGCA are right!!!
Last edited by NG ExPat; 21st Mar 2008 at 20:22. Reason: additional information
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home work
boeing dream
That was the home work I gave you to do some punctuations & rant 10 times
Find some good dreams between the F”s
It was given to you in the simplest form of internationally understandable language
Take care of your mummy.
Its becoming wet.
Take it easy Getwetgo....
Before I decide to go & getwet
When you transmit keep reception switch ON …requirement for RTR operations.
That was the home work I gave you to do some punctuations & rant 10 times
Find some good dreams between the F”s
It was given to you in the simplest form of internationally understandable language
Take care of your mummy.
Its becoming wet.
Take it easy Getwetgo....
Before I decide to go & getwet
When you transmit keep reception switch ON …requirement for RTR operations.
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FAA............
ICAO states any way does not recognize FAA, only the flying done on the a/c.
That too if it is genuine not just logging(plenty of cases), that’s the reason when some body applies for CPL he has to go through all exams and medical as prescribed by the state.
All coming for license ISSUE in ICAO states have to pass local test and medicals.
It’s only in INDIA that pilots can fly on with medical fitness certificate issued by other states(genuine or forged no body knows) on FATA which is special clearance given on the discretion of DG.
due to the D.G. they don"t have to do RTR and MEDICALS in the state.
That too if it is genuine not just logging(plenty of cases), that’s the reason when some body applies for CPL he has to go through all exams and medical as prescribed by the state.
All coming for license ISSUE in ICAO states have to pass local test and medicals.
It’s only in INDIA that pilots can fly on with medical fitness certificate issued by other states(genuine or forged no body knows) on FATA which is special clearance given on the discretion of DG.
due to the D.G. they don"t have to do RTR and MEDICALS in the state.
