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Unpredictable DGCA

Old 19th Mar 2008, 02:18
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captain incapacitation/ first officer no landing

flight knight
post 93
insurance companies take in to consideration past record.....
ICAO states medical standreds and so on
insurance companies would have been the first one to act in this situation.
since there is no such case among ICAO states of pilot incapacitation,
insurance companies are cool on this issue, may be more comfortable and happy with the system ICAO states follow
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 02:49
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Angel maths and physics

sky dancer
change took place because 10th standred in india is equivalent to 15 standred in non ICAO states, its just the balancing act so that more pilots can be brought in to the system.
many expats are flying with "o" level in india which is 10 years in school,
so you can understand now.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 05:01
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Well Getsetgo...The more I read your posts the more I feel that you are part of the DGCA or Praful Patel's nephew...or maybe even Mr. Patel himself...but here are couple for facts for you ....

^ The GCSE O levels is equivalent to our ( Indian ) 11th standard if you take into account the number of years at school and their syllabus is also on par...I cannot comment on other countries but in general in European coutries when they say they've passed high school it means they have completed 12 standard..

^ When reputed foreign carriers hire you they take into account your academic records and work experience very carefully...

^ Concerning Pilot incapacitation....BA had a case with a Captain becoming incapacitated at the time of take off from Heathrow about 3 years ago ( if my memory is correct ) and I think it was on a B 7474....considering that London is the heart of the worlds aviation and shipping insurance..the insurance cos will certainly know what they are talking about..

^ You might like to know this bit of information..in the mid 90s Malaysian Airlines when through this bout of nationalisation...the local guys were pretty hostile to the expats at that point in time and they went of a boot the expat spree...in the process many guys who were not really ready for command were upgraded....it happened in the case of a guy on a F50...he was failed by an Expat (read White) TRE....there was noise about him being racist...and they brought a local TRE ( bhumiputra ) and he cleared him.....2 weeks later they lost the plane while flying an approach into Sandakan (or Tawau) Sabah, East Malaysia....Lloyds the insurance guys went through the records and saw what happened and pulled them up for it..MH had to re advertise for expat crew once again...so the cycle continues...

^ So you see we guys are in the business of flying people around...IE HUMAN LIVES...so I think the crackheads sitting on top should be reminded every once in a while that it is important to get the right people on the Flight Deck....

^ Take time off from your high handedness and ask your self this question..you might be flying a B 737 NG or A 320...lets say your in Command and things are not going right..you've lost your automation and your on raw data and you've got wx all aroung you..who would you like sitting next to you....a well trained motivated co pilot or some guys or girl who became a pilot for the sake of it....

So these are the facts..and I dont think it'll make you happy...
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 05:05
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Oh Yeah just an after thought..

The F 50 involved in the Sandakan crash was fatal...everyone on board died and so did a couple of people in the village ahead of the runway..

but then I guess for people like getsetgo...it doesn't really matter does it...
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 05:59
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Getsetgo,

Change is good but when you are changing the system why stop half way, why not go all the way? There is no educational requirements either in the FAA system or JAA. All it requires is that you can read, write and understand english language (Now its a different story whether you speak Queens english, Yank, Indian, EU, SE Asia or even OZ english).

The problem that I see is with these arbitrary ruling. There are unemployed local co-pilots in the market; DGCA has recently brought in a ruling that no more expat FOs from June onwards; so why lower the educational qualification now? Its not that there is shortage of co-pilots and we cannot find 10+2 (with maths and science) candidates !!!

Another arbitrary rule is not renewing the RTs? What ground do they have for not recognising the foreign RTs? May be they should look in to why people go abroad to do their RTs rather than stopping the conversion. The syllabus is archiac, the questions in the transmission are out of sequence and during viva they ask questions out of their a**es. Yes, I hold Indian RT and after 13 years I still do not see the relevance between RT licence and telling the wa*ker what the diffence was in PAL/NTSC or how exactly TV worked!!!

DGCA is lacking in so many areas that they need a complete makeover. Perhaps they should learn from JAA (reduce some bureaucracy ) and than move on to FAA to eliminate it further.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 07:36
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Desipilot, Is this new rule for Expats flying domestic only or does it include International flights as well.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 07:59
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Hey Desipilot...I don't think anyone could have made more sense that you buddy...BTW they've advertised on the DGCA website for the post of DG...I certainly think you'll make a good candidate....good one..
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 08:23
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Thanks Sky, but don't think I can get down to their standards, so I am happy where I am.

Farrari,

I was discussing the same thing with my friends (read expat FOs) who are in Indigo and with my friends (read Indians) on AI 777 fleet. No one seem to know whats going to happen. At least the guys in Indigo who have the hours will be upgraded to fly as Captains. The guys in AI (all the Kiwis out there) are based out of India, so no one knows if the rule applies to expat FOs based in India or to all expat officers. As always there are no clear guidelines from the authority (or lack off).
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 13:50
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edu/incapacitation

sky dancer

as in 90" maths and physics till 12th introduced by the authority,same way it is readjusted to 10th std.
because many expat are flying with diffrent kinds of cirtificates probably 10 years school is good.

BA incident...EGLL..there is C.A.A. NOT ICAO .

malasyian kind things happens all over the world,take it easy.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 14:19
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system RTR

i UNDERSTAND FROM THE POSTS THAT UK RTR LICENCE IS ACCEPTABLE PROVIDED YOU HAVE UK LICENCE(CPL)
MEANS YOU CANNOT HAVE FAA LICENCE(ATP)+ UK RTR FOR APPROVAL TO GET ONBOARD IN ICAO.
MEANS MUST HAVE BOTH LICENCES FROM THE SAME LICENCING AUTHORITY.

This is been come in to picture bcz people tried to get onboard with false forged fabricates licences then trying to bribe at DGCA with those forged papers.
this happens in all ICAO states...when there is expansion ,lot of crap tries to sneak in And this crap tries to change the system as well.
so the rules/system are contantly changed every time to plug sneakers.
there are cases like when GDCA saw expat log book entry for a/c which was still on the drawing board.
when you drive on indian mountains up north,very nice sign boards you will see like
DO"NT BE GAMMA IN THE LAND OF LAMA so that you drive safe without stunts and risks.
Keep your IDs secure, FAA INSPECTORS ARE LOOSING THEM HIGH TIME.
Here it is very serious due to the security concerns of the country.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 16:17
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I also believe that getsetgo works for, or is, the DGCA. His responses and rebuttals and explanations are classic DGCA: incoherent and incomprehensible.
As to the issue of lives being at risk , that has never been a problem in India. In a country of 1.1 billion people the Government does not care if a few hundred are lost in air accidents.
Alt3.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 17:06
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RTR

Desi pilot post 229

What I guess the reason for lowering education standards ……..
May be experience and feed back coming from various agencies like ATC, OPERATORS AND OTHER TECHNICAL BODIES about the use of radio during last five years or so as pilots are coming from all over the globe during this time.

Quote
(All it requires is that you can read, write and understand english language (Now its a different story whether you speak Queens english, Yank, Indian, EU, SE Asia or even OZ English)

As you said it is important to communicate effectively on the radio, there are situations when the pilot could not read/understand or read back the instructions of ATC in spite of having good education to university levels and from superior country.

10th standard rule….. It seems there will be more emphasize on communication skills than paper certificates.

It is nothing to do with employment issues.

Not recognizing other State license…..no idea…State may be black listed in the records considering the influx of forged documents in to ICAO states.
Or the chances of forged papers (lack of transparency)
I do recognize foreign RTs, but DGCA may not be sure on the authenticity of the document.


You got your RTR you are lucky after 13 years, probably instructor knew your capabilities and did not wanted to waste time on what he was doing with other candidates (good professional)

System addresses masses not individuals.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 17:28
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Huh?

On 1 November 2007 getsetgo posted ...

indian DGCA knows you

Mr ...so n so..
DGCA KNOWS EACH AND EVERY PILOT
this is one of the best DGCA.....OR ....CAA....OR FAAA...OR JAAAA.
and doing a good job.
i understand yor are not really close to ABC of safe aviation...which is very much intact so far with DGCA.
ARE you a flight dispacher?......or a doctor?.....scheduler?
may be you wont understand most of these.....good luck
try not to interfear pilots forum....

On 19 March 2008 getsetgo posted ...


System addresses masses not individuals

Hmmmm ...

I should note that I've been to HQ several times and was always treated politely and professionally. Most people everywhere are pretty nice if you give them a chance, but it's clear my experience isn't universal.

Last edited by Rotorhead1026; 19th Mar 2008 at 17:37. Reason: Addition
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 18:27
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system

rotorhead
this old thread was focussed on diffrent issue which was i think regarding some pilots medical issue(i dont know if he still flying in there)

system comes in to picture when there are more than one person working in a setup.
its like when i had less than 10 workers ,no system was required.(can attend every body Personally )
but as the organisation expands there was a need to establish system.
or you can say general guidelines
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 18:37
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lets see patiance is the word

Alouette 3

Your attitude is
“Heads mine, tails mine if I still loose I kill”
1.1 billion People are ready for flying ,less than 1000 don’t like the scenario.
i donot think any govt will make policies based upon the -ve thinking of death and distruction.

Enjoy
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 18:50
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flying new CPLs

^ Take time off from your high handedness and ask your self this question..you might be flying a B 737 NG or A 320...lets say your in Command and things are not going right..you've lost your automation and your on raw data and you've got wx all aroung you..who would you like sitting next to you....a well trained motivated co pilot or some guys or girl who became a pilot for the sake of it....

So these are the facts..and I dont think it'll make you happy...

**************************************************

sky dancer
I think training pattern set already has worked so far
Hope fully it will work
If doesn’t then there will be new rules/regulations.
With the new CPL holders taking seats, DGCA telling operators to open training setups , RTR issues got some amendments....
lot of changes already taken place in this new environment, and towards the concerns you have mentioned.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 22:10
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On 19 March 2008 getsetgo said:


system
rotorhead
this old thread was focussed on diffrent issue which was i think regarding some pilots medical issue(i dont know if he still flying in there)

system comes in to picture when there are more than one person working in a setup.
its like when i had less than 10 workers ,no system was required.(can attend every body Personally )
but as the organisation expands there was a need to establish system.
or you can say general guidelines

Baloney!

You DO sound like a "government official", though.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 22:16
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Gosh getsetgo......for the third time......please take a grammar lesson.....!!!!
And learn to punctuate too while you're at it...!! Darn sure you're an ATC guy. Transmit only and with muffs off...!!
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Old 20th Mar 2008, 00:33
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DesiPilot, thanks for the info , any one out there clear this up!
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Old 20th Mar 2008, 03:28
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my english

boeing dream 787

when i f**k i donot look at face, i donot dream ,i concentrate on my job of f**king.
thats how i enjoy my job.
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