BPIAA Rumor or Truth
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Condolences
What do you not understand?
Butt does not need to give any of you explanation because he is the ALMIGHTY
don't you guys get it by now?Haven't you guys learnt anything the past few months?
What happened to your words guys?You have to eat it now?
Butt does not need to give any of you explanation because he is the ALMIGHTYdon't you guys get it by now?Haven't you guys learnt anything the past few months?What happened to your words guys?You have to eat it now?
Join Date: Mar 2008
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You've got a ticket to ride!
Are you people still waiting for the new investor to finalise the handing over?incidentally the words out there is that Pan Am is still looking for investors.you people has been taken for a ride.heard this from very reliable source.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Day by Day
I am starting to believe the words of MosesFrechierose.
In the last meeting we had with Li we asked who was the Investor and how sure was he about the Investment. He said he is positive and its an investor from inner mongolia. That person I believe had backed out a long time ago, and to me he sounded lost for words when we asked. We heard nothing until pay day that the paper work will take some time (10-15 days). According to Li the investor has already signed the contract it just takes time for the CAAC to process.
I am also wondering, since this investor already owns the company now in panam's perspective, whats so hard about taking some money from the bank account to pay us. Li's reply is that he felt bad about asking the man for money to pay us when the papers are not acknowledge as yet by the CAAC.
This whole deal is about money
, what is he talking about. The investor must have known Panam is desperate and would actually probably offer some money to let us stay. You dont pay us we leave, we leave the company dies
. And not because it would be at a cheaper price for him but this place would be known, it would have to relocate to escape being called panam again. I am pretty sure that if I were him I would be desperate to not allow 1 more instrutor to leave, so asking for money is what any business man would do to save his company not his pride. So needless to say, its a business minded act and not a rational thought.
You right Moses, we are on a ride out to the deep blue sea without a compass. Soon we will hit an ice-berg.
For those on the outside looking in, look away
. For those on the inside looking out,
.
In the last meeting we had with Li we asked who was the Investor and how sure was he about the Investment. He said he is positive and its an investor from inner mongolia. That person I believe had backed out a long time ago, and to me he sounded lost for words when we asked. We heard nothing until pay day that the paper work will take some time (10-15 days). According to Li the investor has already signed the contract it just takes time for the CAAC to process.
I am also wondering, since this investor already owns the company now in panam's perspective, whats so hard about taking some money from the bank account to pay us. Li's reply is that he felt bad about asking the man for money to pay us when the papers are not acknowledge as yet by the CAAC.
This whole deal is about money
, what is he talking about. The investor must have known Panam is desperate and would actually probably offer some money to let us stay. You dont pay us we leave, we leave the company dies. And not because it would be at a cheaper price for him but this place would be known, it would have to relocate to escape being called panam again. I am pretty sure that if I were him I would be desperate to not allow 1 more instrutor to leave, so asking for money is what any business man would do to save his company not his pride. So needless to say, its a business minded act and not a rational thought.You right Moses, we are on a ride out to the deep blue sea without a compass. Soon we will hit an ice-berg.
For those on the outside looking in, look away
. For those on the inside looking out,.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Just Checking In
This a great thread for a monthly dose of entertainment. BOHICA
It's simply amazing how much abuse you guys will tolerate.
It's simply amazing how much abuse you guys will tolerate.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Abuse is an understatement!
There are only four life vests on this sinking ship but ironically only Penny, Sebastian,Alice and Butthole himself are donning them.Funny you mentioned about abuse.Giving out your salary that you rightfully earned like some charitable soup kitchen and putting all of you in a third world country without insurance.THAT is ABUSE, but all of you have grown accustomed to it a long time ago.In layman terms,you can say you have been conditioned.None of you have the decency to even have some respect for yourself,why would Butt and his bunch of misfits have any for you?
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Pan Am is history?
So you guys finally throw in the towels?I mean,after Butt wipe his ass with them?It is sad to hear that this Hermit went into hiding in his small little shell instead of standup and face the music like a man.Many of us feel sorry for you butt most of you deserves it with the exception of the Argentinian,since you do not even believed in yourself.
My door is always open!Please come in and see me a few days later after I finish counting my greenback!Lots to count!
MrArse with his white flag sailing away after guiding the Titanic towards the iceberg.
It is sad to hear that this Hermit went into hiding in his small little shell instead of standup and face the music like a man.Many of us feel sorry for you butt most of you deserves it with the exception of the Argentinian,since you do not even believed in yourself.My door is always open!Please come in and see me a few days later after I finish counting my greenback!Lots to count!
MrArse with his white flag sailing away after guiding the Titanic towards the iceberg.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Coma!
It looks like Panam has fallen into a Coma over the past months. It will not Die and it will not recover from its almost Fatal injuries
.
People are giving up on this sick sucker and going back to their regular life styles. A few of us are next to "Its bed" waiting for a sigh of life.
Im pretty sure that by the end of the year if this "bastard" doenst wake up and look around him to see his supporters, we are going to all leave it to die.
. People are giving up on this sick sucker and going back to their regular life styles. A few of us are next to "Its bed" waiting for a sigh of life.
Im pretty sure that by the end of the year if this "bastard" doenst wake up and look around him to see his supporters, we are going to all leave it to die.
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is it finished?
So? did they close the door?
So I can close this very long lasting thread?
It has been entertaining to say the least.
Sorry for you guys if you still there and Merry Christmas for everyone!
AM
So I can close this very long lasting thread?
It has been entertaining to say the least.
Sorry for you guys if you still there and Merry Christmas for everyone!
AM
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Yes I guess you can close it.
Your thread and Panam itself was a hell of an adventure.
Not only bad things happened there. And amazing people worked there.
This is the end.
Merry Christmas to you always moving and to all of the former Panam employees and instructors.
KAG.
Your thread and Panam itself was a hell of an adventure.
Not only bad things happened there. And amazing people worked there.
This is the end.
Merry Christmas to you always moving and to all of the former Panam employees and instructors.
KAG.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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wonder?
Has anyone of you ever wonder why Brian Butt is kept on the payroll by AIG at the super high salary scale hiding in his cell like a little girl?If this is not the mother of all SCAM, then what is?Heard all of you have been very naughty this year because Santa came visiting without your presents?To those of you who has left,well done.For those who are still there,well done too,at least you guys are the optimist romantics!Merry Christmas anyhow!
Last edited by MosesFrenchieRose; 28th Dec 2008 at 14:50.
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Interesting article
To those of you who are still there!This is the real world!
The biggest CEO firings of 2008
Matthew Kirdahy, Forbes.com
Posted: 26 December 2008 1026 hrs
There are two kinds of CEO firings," says Noel Tichy, a professor at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan. "There are the crooks and there are the incompetents." This year the biggest departing names all fell into a gray area in between.
Ever wonder which side your CEO fell in?
The biggest CEO firings of 2008
Matthew Kirdahy, Forbes.com
Posted: 26 December 2008 1026 hrs
There are two kinds of CEO firings," says Noel Tichy, a professor at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan. "There are the crooks and there are the incompetents." This year the biggest departing names all fell into a gray area in between.
Ever wonder which side your CEO fell in?
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a penny for your thought
Join Date: Apr 2008
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PanScam Makes The News
This article was published on January 2, 2009 in a Hong Kong newspaper!! This is great stuff!!!! Hey, Sebastian, spend that 5000RMB you received this month wisely!!! Might be the last you get...
Aviators train sights on flying school boss
Timothy Chui
Friday, January 02, 2009
The former head of the Hong Kong Government Flying Service is at the center of a brewing row with aviators at the mainland's biggest privately owned aviation academy.
In an anonymous letter sent to The Standard, foreign flying instructors at the Beijing Pan Am International Aviation Academy accuse Brian Butt Yiu-ming of driving a wedge between management and instructors, breaches of contract and racial discrimination.
They also allege humiliating treatment has resulted in the number of instructors dropping from 100 when the academy was formed in 2004 to about seven at present.
They say the academy's Shijiazhuang, Handan, Bautou and Beijing bases are losing 400,000 yuan (HK$454,000) a day and that official operations ceased on December 22.
Butt said most grievances were due to a lack of resources and financial support rather than his style of management.
He insisted that the academy still employs 50 mainland and overseas instructors and that the cut from 100 was to reduce wastage.
He said although the school had stopped taking new students it would continue to operate until the current batch of 300 students graduate.
Butt said that the company had shortlisted two potential investors who were now going through its books.
In their letter the instructors said Butt was "penny wise and pound foolish."
"But our parent-company AIG thinks that he is doing a good job and thinks he deserves to be awarded shares. If only the American taxpayers knew where their tax money is going," they said.
They allege salaries were not paid on time, if at all, and that when pay day did arrive they were subjected to humiliating pay ceremonies where salaries were publicly announced before being handed out.
They claim academy support for visas, insurance and hotel accommodation, previously provided for by contract, were reduced or eliminated and that promises of housing allowances never materialized.
The instructors also say Butt had refused Chinese flight licenses to Jamaican, Israeli and Italian flight instructors claiming their countries were on the Civil Aviation Authority of China's warning list. Inquiries revealed there was no such list.
The three instructors later obtained their licenses from CAAC through the actions of academy director Peter Whang.
Butt's management was described as curtailing rights and benefits, forcing staff to decide between a pay cut or leaving at their own expense including contract penalties for early self-termination.
A petition by some teaching staff was forwarded to the company's board of directors in November calling for Butt's removal. However, a reply from managing director of AIG Investments and BPA board of directors member Peter Whang asked instructors to work with Butt while the school seeks emergency funding.
Tuition at the mainland flight academy for a 14-month course costs just under HK$660,000.
Hey, Sebastian, spend that 5000RMB you received this month wisely!!! Might be the last you get...Aviators train sights on flying school boss
Timothy Chui
Friday, January 02, 2009
The former head of the Hong Kong Government Flying Service is at the center of a brewing row with aviators at the mainland's biggest privately owned aviation academy.
In an anonymous letter sent to The Standard, foreign flying instructors at the Beijing Pan Am International Aviation Academy accuse Brian Butt Yiu-ming of driving a wedge between management and instructors, breaches of contract and racial discrimination.
They also allege humiliating treatment has resulted in the number of instructors dropping from 100 when the academy was formed in 2004 to about seven at present.
They say the academy's Shijiazhuang, Handan, Bautou and Beijing bases are losing 400,000 yuan (HK$454,000) a day and that official operations ceased on December 22.
Butt said most grievances were due to a lack of resources and financial support rather than his style of management.
He insisted that the academy still employs 50 mainland and overseas instructors and that the cut from 100 was to reduce wastage.
He said although the school had stopped taking new students it would continue to operate until the current batch of 300 students graduate.
Butt said that the company had shortlisted two potential investors who were now going through its books.
In their letter the instructors said Butt was "penny wise and pound foolish."
"But our parent-company AIG thinks that he is doing a good job and thinks he deserves to be awarded shares. If only the American taxpayers knew where their tax money is going," they said.
They allege salaries were not paid on time, if at all, and that when pay day did arrive they were subjected to humiliating pay ceremonies where salaries were publicly announced before being handed out.
They claim academy support for visas, insurance and hotel accommodation, previously provided for by contract, were reduced or eliminated and that promises of housing allowances never materialized.
The instructors also say Butt had refused Chinese flight licenses to Jamaican, Israeli and Italian flight instructors claiming their countries were on the Civil Aviation Authority of China's warning list. Inquiries revealed there was no such list.
The three instructors later obtained their licenses from CAAC through the actions of academy director Peter Whang.
Butt's management was described as curtailing rights and benefits, forcing staff to decide between a pay cut or leaving at their own expense including contract penalties for early self-termination.
A petition by some teaching staff was forwarded to the company's board of directors in November calling for Butt's removal. However, a reply from managing director of AIG Investments and BPA board of directors member Peter Whang asked instructors to work with Butt while the school seeks emergency funding.
Tuition at the mainland flight academy for a 14-month course costs just under HK$660,000.
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Better late than never?
Always Moving, one year ago it was bad, really bad, but not unbearable.You should hear the sh
it he put everybody through since his arrival 9 months ago.This guy is a magician,everything he touches turns to SHIT,can't really help it when you got a name like that I guess?
it he put everybody through since his arrival 9 months ago.This guy is a magician,everything he touches turns to SHIT,can't really help it when you got a name like that I guess?
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Latest News From Bautou Base
Sebastian,
This email you sent out is laughable. You're a politician, bubba!! I "beg?" Ha Ha Ha!!!!! You make "demands," and now you "beg."
What is it with all you guys still there? The entire aviation world is laughing at you!! Since when did Panscam EVER put safety first? And your "begging" is really going to solve the situation!!!
Here is the latest from my FORMER assistant chief! Enjoy:
Sent: Friday, January 9, 2009 6:23:05 PM
Subject: From Baotou Base
Mr. Li
Mr. Butt
Mr. Qian
Mr. Chen
Today I received a phone call from different students asking me if I would Fly tomorrow January 10, 2009. I also heard that Baotou Base will resume operations.
This email is to inform you that NOBODY, contact me to let me know that we will fly tomorrow. Since I am the Assistant Chief Pilot in Baotou Base, I am supposed to review all the conditions before resume operations if the Chief Pilot is not at the Base. This is AGAIN, a totally disrespect to me.
I am letting you know that I DO NOT agree to start flying again tomorrow for the following reasons.
1) I don't think students will progress flying with different instructors. It will be a waste of time and money for the company.
2) Maintenance, Dispatch and Instructors didn't get paid for almost 3 month and they are VERY UPSET with the current situation, this is totally UNSAFE!!!
3) The Stress within the flying staff was push to the limit already for the last 3 month. UNSAFE!!
4) There is no authority from the flight department to control the operations. UNSAFE!!
5) Most of the instructor and Students didn't fly for a month UNSAFE!! and the students are already PUSHING the instructors to fly. UNSAFE!!!
6) We Don't have Medical Insurance.
I beg all the leaders of Beijing Pan Am, to cease operations until after the Spring Festival for SAFETY REASONS, give time to the Directors to get the new money and start operations normally again. This is not a "Strike" the foreigners here were supporting Pan Am for the last 3 month, BUT I THINK ALL THIS CIRCUMSTANCES PUSHED THE SAFETY TO THE LIMIT. We stop flying a month ago waiting for the 141 certification, OUR LIFE and SAFETY ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAT THE 141. and the current conditions are still the same or worse today than 1 month ago.
Since It seems to me that my position is not necessary anymore, I will process and talk with HR to go back as a regular flight instructor.
I hope all of you agree with me on this email.
Thank you very Much,
Happy Spring Festival!
This email you sent out is laughable. You're a politician, bubba!! I "beg?" Ha Ha Ha!!!!! You make "demands," and now you "beg."
What is it with all you guys still there? The entire aviation world is laughing at you!! Since when did Panscam EVER put safety first? And your "begging" is really going to solve the situation!!!
Here is the latest from my FORMER assistant chief! Enjoy:
Sent: Friday, January 9, 2009 6:23:05 PM
Subject: From Baotou Base
Mr. Li
Mr. Butt
Mr. Qian
Mr. Chen
Today I received a phone call from different students asking me if I would Fly tomorrow January 10, 2009. I also heard that Baotou Base will resume operations.
This email is to inform you that NOBODY, contact me to let me know that we will fly tomorrow. Since I am the Assistant Chief Pilot in Baotou Base, I am supposed to review all the conditions before resume operations if the Chief Pilot is not at the Base. This is AGAIN, a totally disrespect to me.
I am letting you know that I DO NOT agree to start flying again tomorrow for the following reasons.
1) I don't think students will progress flying with different instructors. It will be a waste of time and money for the company.
2) Maintenance, Dispatch and Instructors didn't get paid for almost 3 month and they are VERY UPSET with the current situation, this is totally UNSAFE!!!
3) The Stress within the flying staff was push to the limit already for the last 3 month. UNSAFE!!
4) There is no authority from the flight department to control the operations. UNSAFE!!
5) Most of the instructor and Students didn't fly for a month UNSAFE!! and the students are already PUSHING the instructors to fly. UNSAFE!!!
6) We Don't have Medical Insurance.
I beg all the leaders of Beijing Pan Am, to cease operations until after the Spring Festival for SAFETY REASONS, give time to the Directors to get the new money and start operations normally again. This is not a "Strike" the foreigners here were supporting Pan Am for the last 3 month, BUT I THINK ALL THIS CIRCUMSTANCES PUSHED THE SAFETY TO THE LIMIT. We stop flying a month ago waiting for the 141 certification, OUR LIFE and SAFETY ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAT THE 141. and the current conditions are still the same or worse today than 1 month ago.
Since It seems to me that my position is not necessary anymore, I will process and talk with HR to go back as a regular flight instructor.
I hope all of you agree with me on this email.
Thank you very Much,
Happy Spring Festival!
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Bravo Sebastian, bravo!
Sebastian Manzo, you are truly Butt's PROTEGE! We are pretty sure he is very proud of you! You demanded for respect just like your mentor, you are so full of yourself, you are clueless about what you are doing, you are shameless, you are lazy and not very smart, in other words, you are a Brian Butt in the making. Congratulations and well done You are like an ungrateful dog that bite the hand that feeds you. The only clever thing you have done so far is to step down from your position, definitely better than being demoted. Guess you already heard that all your fellow subordinates already have your name on the 'To be fired' list?
You are like an ungrateful dog that bite the hand that feeds you. The only clever thing you have done so far is to step down from your position, definitely better than being demoted. Guess you already heard that all your fellow subordinates already have your name on the 'To be fired' list?