Singaporeair Captain recruitment
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: out there somewhere...
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Likewise...prompt replies to relevent questions, course dates offered in coordination with leaving the old employer, all wrapped up in a very informative package. Not sure what HR looks like now, there have been a couple of personnell changes in the the last year or so...(no more Dragon lady!
) I would guess it all depends on how many applied and how many will get an offer.
) I would guess it all depends on how many applied and how many will get an offer.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: uk
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What, no more Dragon Lady??? Sacre bleu! Actually, I found her to be very helpful and prompt in replying to queries.
Can't help with the max age to join Cargo, but the max. age to fly in SIN is 62, but will, no doubt, rise to 65 in good time. I believe it has to do with Singapore's labour laws concerning retirement age.
Can't help with the max age to join Cargo, but the max. age to fly in SIN is 62, but will, no doubt, rise to 65 in good time. I believe it has to do with Singapore's labour laws concerning retirement age.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Not trying to be a party-pooper or sour grapes, but those seriously considering joining SQ and required to enter into a training bond, at least consider my warnings in a separate post. Knowledge is everything.
The very FIRST thing you do in the first 5 minutes of entering the office when joining SQ is to sign the training bond. It's not till after, that you start seeing some of the fine print.
eg... the advert on their site says once a year free home base travel. Be advised, it's not really free. You have to pay the departure/airport taxes, which from SIN to the either Europe/USA is about $60 per ticket. But, that's not the real hit. On top of that, they add the FULL non-discounted value of the travel on to your taxable compensation. You will pay 10% in taxes on that. So my home base travel ends of costing me close to $300 per family member. Free? I don't think so. Also, the ticket is only valid to the city that you designate when joining as your "entry city" so to speak. Can never be changed over the duration of your contract.
advert also says: "free generous medical coverage" actually, not really free. again, the premiums the company pays are added to your taxable compensation. AND, (a big and), the coverage offered for your dependents is laughable. Basically covers very minor issues with lots of exclusions, up to a maximum of S$8,000/year. I can not sleep at night knowing that, so I purchase addtional insurance. another net reduction in compensation you had not counted on.
All these things whittle away at the annual package they advertise. And you don't learn about these things until after you have signed a S$142,000 training bond, brought S$56,000 in cash to SIN, not to mention the cost of moving yourself/family there. The S$5,000 they provide for moving expenses will cover the average bachelor. Not a married man, especially with children.
There is lots of other "fine print" that you can't/won't read until after signing the bond agreement.
caveat emptor!
PQ
The very FIRST thing you do in the first 5 minutes of entering the office when joining SQ is to sign the training bond. It's not till after, that you start seeing some of the fine print.
eg... the advert on their site says once a year free home base travel. Be advised, it's not really free. You have to pay the departure/airport taxes, which from SIN to the either Europe/USA is about $60 per ticket. But, that's not the real hit. On top of that, they add the FULL non-discounted value of the travel on to your taxable compensation. You will pay 10% in taxes on that. So my home base travel ends of costing me close to $300 per family member. Free? I don't think so. Also, the ticket is only valid to the city that you designate when joining as your "entry city" so to speak. Can never be changed over the duration of your contract.
advert also says: "free generous medical coverage" actually, not really free. again, the premiums the company pays are added to your taxable compensation. AND, (a big and), the coverage offered for your dependents is laughable. Basically covers very minor issues with lots of exclusions, up to a maximum of S$8,000/year. I can not sleep at night knowing that, so I purchase addtional insurance. another net reduction in compensation you had not counted on.
All these things whittle away at the annual package they advertise. And you don't learn about these things until after you have signed a S$142,000 training bond, brought S$56,000 in cash to SIN, not to mention the cost of moving yourself/family there. The S$5,000 they provide for moving expenses will cover the average bachelor. Not a married man, especially with children.
There is lots of other "fine print" that you can't/won't read until after signing the bond agreement.
caveat emptor!
PQ
Join Date: Sep 1999
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thanks PQ
Thanks for the warning PQ. Sometimes we ignore these things when we are staring at a big new shiny Airplane. Your words give pause for thought.
“When work is a pleasure, life is a joy. When work is a duty, life is slavery.”
Maxim Gorky
“When work is a pleasure, life is a joy. When work is a duty, life is slavery.”
Maxim Gorky
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Sd 56,000.....???!!?? Wow...
Well spoken chapola.....
PQ.....
"brought S$56,000 in cash to SIN".......whats this SD 56,000 in cash that u have to "bring" to Singapore pls...??!!
And is the 142,000 a cash up front or indemnity bond.....ie do they deduct from ur salary,or is it an insurance against leaving...?? I'm talking expat terms...
BD
PQ.....
"brought S$56,000 in cash to SIN".......whats this SD 56,000 in cash that u have to "bring" to Singapore pls...??!!
And is the 142,000 a cash up front or indemnity bond.....ie do they deduct from ur salary,or is it an insurance against leaving...?? I'm talking expat terms...
BD
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Yes, stump up with case AS WELL AS sign a bond. Nothing foolish about this lot. I believe that one of the first things they ask and they ask it more than once, is if you are able to meet bonding requirements. If not, "Game over".
Good luck.
Good luck.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Sq Training Bond /bank Guarantee Straight Talk
Straight skinny on the training bond arrangement with SQ (my numbers relate to my contract, however the principle will be the same).
Training Bond total you sign is for S$142,000. Your liability lineraly reduces on a pro rated monthly basis (S$2367 / month) over 60 months once you have COMPLEATED YOUR INITIAL LINE CHECK (read not from date of joining. Training takes forever!). Bank guarantee in the amount of S$56,000 is part of the S$142,000, not in addition to. This amount you must place on deposit in a bank in Singapore within two weeks of joining (along with all the legal letters that SQ will supply for you AND which you must use). If you default on the bond (leave early), the company immediately exercises its right to these funds and applies it to your bond liability. So, if you leave late in your term, you may owe less than this amount and will receive the balance due you.
The gratuity of S$10,000 per year that they pay you if you stick it out is further financial pressure/incentive to encourage you to stay.
I've made the statement that this bond amount is exorbitant and bears no relation to SQs actual training cost. As a perspective, Alteon training in Seattle will provide you training for a B-744 type rating on your ATPL for approximately US$12,500 and done in four weeks.
None of this was an issue for me before joining because I naively believed the advertisements and verbal statements made to me regarding my compensation and working conditions. I also naively believed that I would be treated with professional respect. Had my experience mirrored these expectations, the bond arrangement was/would have been ok with me.
They will ask you at the interview if you have any questions about the bonding arrangement. We are all human and all will have a reticence in asking to much about this because many will feel it will have a negative impact on one's being offered employment. I don't think that is a misguided concern.
So again, think long and hard before signing such an agreement. Ask yourself if you would as cavalierly enter into a similar financial arrangment in other areas of your life. Once offered employment, request a copy of the bonding agreement and the full contract terms/conditions. If going to mainline, contact ALPA-S and get a copy of their CA. If going to Cargo, go online to CAAS (Singapore's FAA/JAA) and look at the flight time limitations. This will give you guidance on how "hard" you will work and what they can do to you.
Again, Singapore itself is very nice, food great, safe, people friendly and easy to acclimate for you/family. That's the only thing that has kept me here this long (2 plus years), despite the overall negative experience with the company. But it's not enough to keep me here for 5 1/2 years.
PQ
Training Bond total you sign is for S$142,000. Your liability lineraly reduces on a pro rated monthly basis (S$2367 / month) over 60 months once you have COMPLEATED YOUR INITIAL LINE CHECK (read not from date of joining. Training takes forever!). Bank guarantee in the amount of S$56,000 is part of the S$142,000, not in addition to. This amount you must place on deposit in a bank in Singapore within two weeks of joining (along with all the legal letters that SQ will supply for you AND which you must use). If you default on the bond (leave early), the company immediately exercises its right to these funds and applies it to your bond liability. So, if you leave late in your term, you may owe less than this amount and will receive the balance due you.
The gratuity of S$10,000 per year that they pay you if you stick it out is further financial pressure/incentive to encourage you to stay.
I've made the statement that this bond amount is exorbitant and bears no relation to SQs actual training cost. As a perspective, Alteon training in Seattle will provide you training for a B-744 type rating on your ATPL for approximately US$12,500 and done in four weeks.
None of this was an issue for me before joining because I naively believed the advertisements and verbal statements made to me regarding my compensation and working conditions. I also naively believed that I would be treated with professional respect. Had my experience mirrored these expectations, the bond arrangement was/would have been ok with me.
They will ask you at the interview if you have any questions about the bonding arrangement. We are all human and all will have a reticence in asking to much about this because many will feel it will have a negative impact on one's being offered employment. I don't think that is a misguided concern.
So again, think long and hard before signing such an agreement. Ask yourself if you would as cavalierly enter into a similar financial arrangment in other areas of your life. Once offered employment, request a copy of the bonding agreement and the full contract terms/conditions. If going to mainline, contact ALPA-S and get a copy of their CA. If going to Cargo, go online to CAAS (Singapore's FAA/JAA) and look at the flight time limitations. This will give you guidance on how "hard" you will work and what they can do to you.
Again, Singapore itself is very nice, food great, safe, people friendly and easy to acclimate for you/family. That's the only thing that has kept me here this long (2 plus years), despite the overall negative experience with the company. But it's not enough to keep me here for 5 1/2 years.
PQ
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Haven't seen the actual advertisement myself, but I heard the latest SIA DEC offer (for pilot recruitment) in the aviation publications where it usually can be found is less than 2/3's ($'s) of what is currently in place for those already employed. Anybody have details? A significant downward trend in compensation with the supposedly shortage of pilots? - would be pretty bold if true.
A buddy in SIA tells me that they are negociating a new collective agreement right now and that things are looking pretty grim. He cautions that the advertised package may not be honored as the new CA will take preference.
Join Date: May 2007
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PQ,
Nice work on the training bond issue.
While I have had some negative experiences the positives outweigh the negatives by far. SIA/Cargo is like any other job, you do the research then you make a decision.
I would generally recommend SIA/Cargo to any DEC. It is without question the best job I could have, given my situation. That said, it may not be the best for you. That doesn't make it a "bad" job or a "good" job. Rather, it makes it a "good" job for me and my family.
Those of you looking for work need to make up your own minds as to what will disqualify particular jobs during your employment search.
Good luck, and good hunting. May you be as happy with the results as I am with mine.
Nice work on the training bond issue.
While I have had some negative experiences the positives outweigh the negatives by far. SIA/Cargo is like any other job, you do the research then you make a decision.
I would generally recommend SIA/Cargo to any DEC. It is without question the best job I could have, given my situation. That said, it may not be the best for you. That doesn't make it a "bad" job or a "good" job. Rather, it makes it a "good" job for me and my family.
Those of you looking for work need to make up your own minds as to what will disqualify particular jobs during your employment search.
Good luck, and good hunting. May you be as happy with the results as I am with mine.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Pleased to see you happy Ark. You do raise a valid point. We too are happy in Singapore but that is occasionally despite the airline rather than because of it.
There are imho definite warning signs that SIA are trying harder than at almost any time to significantly reduce terms and conditions and we need ALPA S to stand firm when any CA is negotiated.
There are imho definite warning signs that SIA are trying harder than at almost any time to significantly reduce terms and conditions and we need ALPA S to stand firm when any CA is negotiated.
Join Date: May 2007
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And just how do you suppose are they able to stand firm?
Management doesn't recognize the expats right to be recognized by ALPA-S. If they did it wouldn't matter since by law, expats don't have a vote, unless they are a PR, then they don't have housing/education allowance.
We could all join ALPA-S as a show of support, (what's your status?), but that gesture would be largely symbolic.
At the end of the day, it's all a matter of who waits out who and what do you agree to in order to maintain labor peace. We (expats) are guest workers who observe the process from the sideline and offer encouragement to those who fight our battles.
I would still rather be on the sidelines in Singapore than anywhere else. JMHO
Management doesn't recognize the expats right to be recognized by ALPA-S. If they did it wouldn't matter since by law, expats don't have a vote, unless they are a PR, then they don't have housing/education allowance.
We could all join ALPA-S as a show of support, (what's your status?), but that gesture would be largely symbolic.
At the end of the day, it's all a matter of who waits out who and what do you agree to in order to maintain labor peace. We (expats) are guest workers who observe the process from the sideline and offer encouragement to those who fight our battles.
I would still rather be on the sidelines in Singapore than anywhere else. JMHO
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Just look what happened a few years when a previous Alpha-S person stood firm. He was, despite being a PR ( Permanent Resident ) booted out of SQ and Singapore.
As Ark Pilot rightly points out there is no "standing firm". You will get what SQ decide and if you want to say no then like some time ago it 2.5 years to agree a new CA and after the Ministry get involved to settle dispute if Alpha-S still do not agree then standby to be threatened with no back pay which quickly sorted it out last time around.
This is still a good job for some depending on your own personal situation. Personally I would not have left my company to join SQ based on current rental costs in Singapore,and currency exchange rates.
Although the Bond is large you do at least get it all back after 5 years on the line. Just make sure you are prepared to stay the course and know what you are letting yourself in for and do not rely on large bonuses year on as the formula could change and goal posts moved.
As Ark Pilot rightly points out there is no "standing firm". You will get what SQ decide and if you want to say no then like some time ago it 2.5 years to agree a new CA and after the Ministry get involved to settle dispute if Alpha-S still do not agree then standby to be threatened with no back pay which quickly sorted it out last time around.
This is still a good job for some depending on your own personal situation. Personally I would not have left my company to join SQ based on current rental costs in Singapore,and currency exchange rates.
Although the Bond is large you do at least get it all back after 5 years on the line. Just make sure you are prepared to stay the course and know what you are letting yourself in for and do not rely on large bonuses year on as the formula could change and goal posts moved.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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So, the only options are to bend over and hope there is more vaseline than splinters on the broom handle or resign?
There are other options but I agree you have to tread very carefully.
There are other options but I agree you have to tread very carefully.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Indeed it does. But, speaking as someone who came from an airline that couldn't organise the proverbial in a brewery, paid abysmally and generally ceased caring about its pilot workforce, can I say that life in Singapore will, indeed, seem great for a year or so. Then, the reality sets in. Sure, it might pay a little more than where you (and I suspect I) joined from, but 32 days leave v 57? No staff travel to speak of v ID90 after 6 months, fairly low taxation v no tax whatsoever, petrol at $2 a litre v 50 cents? Inflation at almost 7%. House rentals up by almost 100% in 3 years and only 11% increase in housing allowance?
There are some plusses to living and working here and, yes, it is still better than where I came from (by a country mile) but the trend is worrying - very worrying.
There are some plusses to living and working here and, yes, it is still better than where I came from (by a country mile) but the trend is worrying - very worrying.