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Now everyone can earn 10000ringgit (3000usd)

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Now everyone can earn 10000ringgit (3000usd)

Old 9th Jan 2008, 11:55
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Now everyone can earn 10000ringgit (3000usd)

Yep now everyone can earn 10000ringgit with air asia...finally.

it true.... i saw the pay slip from 4 employees yesterday. 9500-10500 ringgit. thats average per mth.

BUT the crunch is that you have worked as cabin crew... with trips to gold coast.

I am sorry guys I could not help it.... as a FO with this company earning 7-8k ringgit (2000-2500usd) flying +85hrs a mth. it was harder to swallow than the food they serve.

I think this is the only company that cabin crew earns more than FO.

please disprove this myth. before i leave for the dark side.
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Old 9th Jan 2008, 12:26
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Quite happy to de-bunk this myth for you...
National Jet Systems in Australia operate a few contracts, one of them being the QantasLink contract using Boeing 717's for Qantas. NJS do this as it is a lower cost base (read lower wages) than if Qantas did it in their own right.
Anyhow.... to join NJS today and go onto the 717 as an FO, you will have to salary sacrifice part of your wage for the cost of the endorsement, and you will also be employed under new 'B' scale wage conditions. (How ironic, the 'Low cost operator' setting up lower scale wages!!) This new B scale effectively means that as an FO, some or most of the longer term cabin crew down the back earn more than you!!!

So endeth the lesson, myth disproved

b.
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Old 9th Jan 2008, 13:44
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2000-2500usd flying the 320 and flying +85hrs...

thats the lowest i have heard off..anywhere in the modern developing world!

just wondering how can airasia keep pilots when they pay peanuts..it puzzles me...they surely have one bunch of loyal pilots.

i think this is the reason why they can buy 175+ A320..because the pilots are so lowly paid...

im sure somebody is getting richer by the day out of all this!!!!
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Old 9th Jan 2008, 14:05
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Heard 90% of the FOs are cadet????

Is it 15 years bond????
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Old 9th Jan 2008, 16:01
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Call them cadets if you wish... Air Asia is "hiring" FOs if these pay for line training. In other words, give them money up front, and they will allow you to fly with them for a few hundred hours.

Pretty darn sad!

TG
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Old 9th Jan 2008, 20:26
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Rm8000/mnth....?

Don't you think it's time to move to a greener pasteur...???

Heard Captains wage around Rm20k after deductions...

Now Everyone Can Fly...
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 10:51
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Myth has been disapproved. And I am glad that our comparatively low pay gives you guys elsewhere something to be happy about. I sometimes look at the other people's grief for entertainment too.

Things are not so bad. I know a few A320 co-pilots earning more than 9k so the rumor is not 100% true. A330 co-pilots do earn a bit more. Maybe it's highly incomprehensible that an AirAsiaX cabin crew earns more than an AirAsia co-pilot but somehow it's true here in AirAsia. Unless they did that, cabin crew turnover would be high. Cabin crew retention has been a problem here so AK crew makes more than an MH crew does. But I agree that's not a pilot's problem. Pilots should be paid more than the crew, anytime anyday.

Loyal? A lot of the co-pilots are not. Mostly they are just there collecting hours, trying to ignore the problem and weathering the storm. And unless TF increases co-pilot allowances again, a lot of FOs will be leaving. 4-8 (this number changes according to who is spreading the news) will or has already left and soon more will go. This is especially true for the rich kids, direct entry FOs who paid for their training/type-rating. You know them. Some are sons/daughters of MAS captains unable to get a place in MAS. They can't seriously be loyal to AirAsia when they have seen much better pay brought in by their fathers. "Sudah biasa hidup senang". But I say let them leave as I know they're not happy. There's no point of staying if one is not happy. I myself have considered my other options and I have a lot of options. We shall see.

TF's explanation that he can't pay co-pilots more because they get command much faster than anyone else has been received coldly. Some start to actually think he's a d!ck for saying something like that. Well for someone with his vision and intelligence he is stupid for saying that. It's fine that he makes us work hard, lower costs so the company does well as we like it that the company does well. Heck, we're proud that the company is world class now but what we don't like is that the remuneration does not correspond to the work. It will take some time before people will be ready for command so in the meantime FOs need to be paid according to the work done. The point is "work done".

To the FOs contemplating of leaving, just go if the opportunity is there. And go if you are not happy with the current situation. While we have a good management team in place and I trust they have tried and are trying their very best to get things done for all, nothing will make TF change his mind or have a different picture unless something drastic happens. And a piece of advice if you're tired, it is your right to get proper rest. If you can't do it via rostering or crewing, MC is your friend.

By the way don't confuse the direct entry FOs with cadets. The 1st cadet batch still on the 737s while batch 5 still doing type rating. There are only 3 cadet batches on the Airbus fleet so the rest are soldiers of fortune.

PS - jetjockey696 you shouldn't be looking at the crews allowance advice by the way. Just do your paperwork and don't mind the crew allowance advice on the table. But thanks for bringing this amusing story up.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 14:59
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Cant Believe A Ceo Of A Airline Can Come Up With A Statement Like That.

I Think The Main Reason He Is Paying The Fo So Low Its Because With That Kind Of Salary The Fo Will Never Be Able To Pay Off The 320 Bond Of Us$50,000(if Im Not Mistaken)..unless Your A Rich Kid Like Chrome Said..

Its Nothing Got To Do With Time To Command Or Market Value..

So Basicly He Has Got You By The B$lls To Fly His Aircraft For The Bonded Period!!!!

If He Can Do This When The Aviation Market Is Booming And Pilot Demand So High...cant Imagine What Will Tf Do If There Is A Downturn..he Might Ask You To Fly For Free??

Whatever You Say Mate This Is Modern Day Slavery At The Highest Order....!!!!
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 16:00
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JJ696.

Can i ask exactly what did you see?

4 pay slips seen on one day does not add up to "monthly average". It is the average for 4 people for "a" particular month.

What i'm suggesting is that you have , maybe, seen payslips for some F/A's that have had a good month with per diems and various allowances. With these included in the amount.

Be honest.

I know first hand that some airlines in the pacific pay thier girls/guys 2/5ths of their yearly income as wages, the larger remainder as allowances.

Seems likely as you mention flights to OOL.

Include all your allowances doing the same hours, flights and overnights and whats the sum?

Again, be honest.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 19:29
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Good Post by Chrome.

The CEO is a business man, so he is just doing things because simply he can. Air Asia is a great opportunity to start a flying career directly on Jets so the young guys and girls who are cadets and the ones that have paid for their flight training really do not have much choice unless they are lucky for a cadetship with MAS or SIA. So for TF it's take it or leave it and no flying job. The pay is low and the Bonds are High and Long and most importantly ILLEGAL. No pro-rate and inflated amounts.

Capt Salary I think is comparable to market forces in Malaysia comparing to MAS. You cant compare with world market forces because then both F/O's and Capt are underpaid of course. But for Malaysia standard and cost of living it's comfortable. Unfortunately once you step outside Mayaysia your Ringgit doesnt stretch very far. Unless you like to holiday in Cambodia.

As long as Malaysians have the ambition to fly and AK's terrible bonding exists, then there will always be low F/O pay. I really dont know what will happen especially when fleet size increases and Captains become short. Will F/O promotion be enough to cover that?

The airline benefits are almost non existent either. But Air Asia is a low cost carrier remember so if one is not happy with that lifestyle then they would have to leave for a full service airline. It's just that many of the pilots have no ambition or vision for that so they are content where they are. As for the younger F/O's that do I wish them all the best and good luck. In the meantime Air Asia is an excellent learning ground and stepping stone offering invaluable experience. But low cost carrier lifestyle is not much and bloody hard work. No Pilot Union or Unity also playes a part and they take these unfair conditions lying down.

Speaking of hard work and since the subject of this thread was cabin crew, wanna know another interesting fact? I have PERSONALLY seen the Geneva roster of 2 cabin crew (dont ask me how I know) One Crew from Air Asia Malaysia and one from Indonesia Air Asia. Both for a 4 week roster. Malaysia Air Asia Crew has 101:29 FLIGHT HOURS Rostered (with 1 gold coast flight to be fair) and the Indonesia Air Asia Crew has 94:50 Flight Hours. And 40 hours extra for Duty Hours. Rostered for this mind you.

The poor guys and girls are working so hard for short haul regional flying while myself, on worldwide long haul is rostered for around 75-80 Hrs!
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 01:47
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Which is why crew turnover is high in AirAsia. Ideally everyone wants to go to airlines like Emirates and Eitihad but some people just prefer to be closer to their families.

Some captains can make close to RM29,000/month while the average is around RM23,000-RM26,000. That's quite good already if you live in Malaysia. FOs, though making so much less than the standard, RM7000-RM9000/month for a 20 year old is really good. In 2 years with more than 1500 Airbus hours or 5 years with 4000 hours, they can really go anywhere they want. You might laugh at the cars we drive but some of us have young families to raise and gettting home to them everyday is priceless.

It's bad enough that some hostility has been created accidently (with TF's decision to increase Captain's allowance but not the FO's in tandem). Unlike anywhere else in the world, FOs are paid about much lower than the Captains so you will get what I mean. Why make it worse by practising bad CRM in the cockpit? You might be in awe or call me a liar but some of the bad adopters of CRM are the ex-MAS captains. I won't get into the details but I have heard of a lot of things. It's sad really. We're growing so fast and new people come in all the time so having this in the cockpits is not really good. Some FOs have lost the interest to come to work but they slog on for we try to be professionals.

Pilot unity though close to none existant with the local pilots, it is very strong with the Indonesian expats. You might argue since they are expatriates they have no choice but to be close to each other. I find that argument hogwash. Educated Indonesians are just naturally more friendlier, laidback and trustworthy people and so anywhere they go in this world the situation is the same. Malaysian pilots in general will look at someone new as a threat while Indonesian pilots in the same situation sees someone new as a new friend. Local pilots as you guys can see at your own companies backstab, gossip, look down at other people, too protective of their surroundings etc. They talk about CRM but don't really believe or practice CRM, talk about SOP but believe and practise only on selected SOP. I'm not saying all of them do this but the number is significant. So I wish all FOs pick up a thing or two here from the expatriate group and don't become the local type of captains when they make it to their left seats. Just take in all the good and leave the bad examples outside as you gain experience in an airline. FOs have to unite and be strong now to face the challenges ahead. Learn a thing or two also from the experiences and problems of pilots in MAS with their management as some day we too shall face something like that. The current (friendly) management won't be there forever.

So the AirAsia FO dilemma is this; they get to fly new jets at least 80 hours per month and the career is secured as the company is strong, something a lot of people just dream about having. But are paid much less than the Captains when the difference should be quite close together and not more than 100%, some AirAsia X cabin crew take home more than FOs do, the workload is 100% more while being paid 50% less (than industry standards), in the cockpit we have to learn to adopt power distance is an okay thing rather than something that is unacceptable in today's flying and being told to accept all this as: "in a short time you shall be a Captain yourself".

My point in my rant today is this. FOs do not have to accept all this. Not happy with the current situation or your future? LEAVE. You don't have to accept it lying down if you don't want to. But if you are happy staying, let's stay professional, get our experience and knowledge and try making command in 4-5 years like they are planning to. As you stay, learn to get along with your fellow colleagues. Grow up, mature fast and get rid of this cliques, cliques within cliques or inability to talk to people because " you're 20 and it's your first job". No one will eat you if you say "Hi". We're all pilots. If you're junior, go up to the senior guys and introduce yourself and socialise a bit. You won't making it if you go for it alone. When you make it as a Captain, treat your FOs they way you want to be treated when you were an FO. When you make it as a management pilot, manage the way you hope it could be managed when you were a line pilot. Get the pilots' rights sorted out, make this good working environment even better and tell senior management they have to take care of the pilots or there won't be any pilots to fly the new planes. And please get rid of the MAS crew culture creeping in within cabin crew department.

We have a big responsibility in our jobs. Do you want to assume these responsibilities with the low pay and its problems? I am now ready to be flamed.
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 06:19
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Good Post Chrome.

From Your Posts Im Guessing That You Are An Airasia Pilot.

And I Really Admire You For Thinking The Way You Think Even You As A Pilot In Airasia Being Paid So Low And Treated The Way You Guys Are Treated And Made To Work. .

My Advise To Airasia Co Pilots Work Hard As You Guys Are Doing.

But Never Be Too Contented With Ak.have A Burning Ambition To Leave And Join A Proper Airline Which Pays You Properly And Treats You Properly.

Come Mate Airasia Is Not An Airline.its Just A Money Making Transport Company.if Your Happy With This Stay!
If Not Plan Your Career And Leave At The Right Time.


Tf Is One Lucky Fat A#rse Because He Got Profesional Pilots Like You Flying For Him...
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 15:41
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airasia

I do agree with what Chrome and QAR wrote... both wrote very good statements.

I know that I sound like sour grapes... but feel that the company has over look us (our worth), for many years now. how can company increase the captains pay, (some Capt. really don;t deserve there pay increase, as they just sit there shouting the words of encouragement "you still have not finished, geez...hurry up, we only got 20mins") while FO work like a slave in a sweatshop with paperwork etc....HELP US OUT!!), pay the Cabin Crew (airasiaX), per hr more than FO 50ringgit, while FO 40 per hr.. the damages goes on.....

We all (tech and cabin crew) work very very hard for this company, just treat us with respect and pay accordingly.

I expect that the cleaner in a few years with earn more than us...with there yearly pay rise
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 16:13
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Dear Chrome,

I know we have crossed swords in the past. But on tis issue I commend you on you outlook and maturity.

WHAT IS HAPPENING IN AA IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE !!!!!!

You guys should work to rule and use the MC as a weapon to put that arrogant fat a$$ in his place. Make him hurt monetarily, He will soon have an attitude reversal.

Remember this. He ripped off the crew that initially set up the airline. HL, PT, BF. etc.

I really hope you guys can pull together and improve your situation. Please, please, don't take this lying down. Stand up for yourselves.

Wooblah.
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Old 20th Jan 2008, 09:45
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Hell yeah Capt Wooblah... i agree with you a 100%. YOu pilots should be ashamed after studying ur ass off throughout flying school,getting all those head knocking from the shitass intructors paying for the airbus course and in the end some idiots decided that hey... here u go... this is the max we're gonna pay u cuz ur position is not really significant.We rather pay those hotass stewardess flying the 330 who will get us more $$.

Pilots flying the A320 are nothing more than slaves.And slaves do not have benefits.Thats exactly what our very dear TF has in his mind.Management is the worse there.Rostering plus our dear fren ms.nora.She practically sits around and does nothing.And when you ask her for something she gets really frustrated.All she does is suck on captain's tralala.

WAY TO GO AIRASIA.!!
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Old 20th Jan 2008, 17:57
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Chrome couldnt be more precise and i practically have got nothing more to add on.

Probably the one ultimate solution to this problem is to abolish the air force influence that runs deep within the veins of this airline,hence destroying the power distance and everything else will slowly follow through. Here's a word for the management,there is no point in holding standard meetings and discussing on how we can improve the standards etc when 80% of the captains in this airline have thick skulls. i pity the FO's who have to do the loadsheets every single sector while the captain apparently just sits there with his legs crossed playing with his blackberry and chomping down his box of fruits or flirting with the cabin crew no matter whose sector it is. this has been brought up in the standards meeting and it was "supposed" to change but apparently things remain the same and Fo's still struggle on with the paperwork. what a load of "sheet" (no pun intended).

nevertheless there are still professionals out there and good on ya for that mates

As for how much the Fo's get paid...we only have the mafia to blame. TF claims that giving a career to Fo's at such a young age is enough charity and Fo's should be thankful with such a thing and stop complaining about pay. All i have to him is..."you aint working in warner anymore buddy. in the aviation business,you dont have to start at rock bottom unlike artists. you pay pilots because the fly your aircraft...multi-million dollar aircraft. One day when one of us get incapacitated,the Fo's are gonna be the ones saving the day. if i were you...i wouldnt wanna piss em' off. god knows what might happen.

We have a good bunch of pilots among us. really. its these external factors that pulls a blanket of doubt over us. and it destroys us

HANG IN THERE BUDDIES. A WAVE OF TERROR SHALL BE PASSING US IN TERMS OF TECHCREW VERY SOON. DEMANDS WILL BE SHOOTING UP ALL OVER THE WORLD AND PAY WILL BE RISING.

then lets see TF shrink

Hang in there mates
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Old 20th Jan 2008, 19:29
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Workload should always be shared! Equal time to flirt too!
I never let the F/O do the loadsheet/trimsheet for each and every sector. How unfair is that? The F/O's workload is already high enough having to write up so many unecessary flight documents that a modern airline does not need.
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Old 21st Jan 2008, 06:17
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hyprocrisy

so very hypocritical of CAPTAIN WOOBLAH. Double standards in his very own backyard. He is closing his eyes to or which he is not agitating his fellow pilots to change.

Maybe he is one of the "CHAMPION" who will be getting way more in terms of bonus at the expense of his colleagues. and perhaps also very liberal with his 'average' grading of his colleagues so that his bonus is inflated at the expense of his coworkers since he is a TRE.

And at the same time his fellow pilots at the same company are squeezed. Allowances are decreasing with the reduction in night stops especially in the domestic sectors. effectively getting pay cut in an inflationary environment.
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Old 22nd Jan 2008, 16:16
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Dear Rearwad,

What drugs are you on!!!

Your post reflects nothing stated in my post? Furthermore, I do not work for airasia, hence what ever bonus you guys get means zip to me my little sister.

Wooblah.
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Old 22nd Jan 2008, 19:37
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sounds very sad for the guys there, the pay is very low and with such a large order of planes i would think they would want to keep their pilots, well i have some news that can be good, friends of mine in Etihad has told me that they are heading to Kl for a road show including several other countries and could be worth going to see whats on offer, i am sure it more than what the guys are earning there...i dont have any details but i will post if i can find anything....
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