Nippon Cargo Airlines
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Nippon Cargo Airlines
Flying for Nippon Cargo Airlines, over the last 10 years, was considered to be one of the “Rolls Royce” contracts in the Contract Aviation World. This was true for both contracting agencies, Parc Aviation and HACS (Hawaii Aviation). These 2 agencies till now was the only way to be able to fly with NCA. It’s is now time that the truth about the Company, NCA, and the contracting agencies is revealed for all prospective wannabees.
Be warned that conditions here have deteriorated beyond believe. The 2 agencies feel absolutely nothing for their “employees” and would not get involved in any action or negotiations with the Japanese to improve conditions for their so called employees. Mainly because they are scared that NCA would not use them for future hires. Who can blame then as they make an astronomical US$ 3 - 4000 monthly commission per pilot working for NCA.
Salaries are still the initial scale as it was 15 years ago, except for a minimal CPIX increase yearly. The Commuting allowances for air travel, accommodation and ground transportation are still the same as 15 years ago. Per Diem allowances is as ancient as the above mentioned allowances, averaging out at $48 per day
Management at NCA Flight Operations is a whole new experience to any Western mind. Every meeting is basically to decide when the next meeting will be and NO decisions are made. The Westerners working here are regarded as a number and just somebody that can be used and abused as they see fit. This goes from rostering all the way to crew administration. Complaints, and suggestions and request are totally ignored and no feedback is provided. They act as if a problem is ignored, it will eventually go away. The blame game is also being played between NCA and the Contracting agencies (PARC & HACS)
The main shareholders in NCA, up to about a year ago were ANA (All Nippon Airways) and NYK (Nippon Yusen Kaisha), one of the biggest and richest shipping companies in the world. NYK subsequently bought the ANA shares and is now the majority share holders of NCA. ANA all these years provided operational support and training to NCA which is coming to an end in 2009. The two companies is busy going through a slow divorce process where NCA will eventually stand alone in 2009, called “Project Phoenix”.
The company (NCA) is also going through a fleet renewal where the 747 Classics are replaced by 747-400F’s. The training on the 747-400 last a whopping 6-7 months. Notification time before the course could be anything from 10-14 days at best.
If you want to be unsure of your future, being away from home, want to be part of the “mushroom club”, sit and watch how money is wasted, see miss-management, listen to pilots complaining and be generally frustrated, this is the place for you.
Be warned that conditions here have deteriorated beyond believe. The 2 agencies feel absolutely nothing for their “employees” and would not get involved in any action or negotiations with the Japanese to improve conditions for their so called employees. Mainly because they are scared that NCA would not use them for future hires. Who can blame then as they make an astronomical US$ 3 - 4000 monthly commission per pilot working for NCA.
Salaries are still the initial scale as it was 15 years ago, except for a minimal CPIX increase yearly. The Commuting allowances for air travel, accommodation and ground transportation are still the same as 15 years ago. Per Diem allowances is as ancient as the above mentioned allowances, averaging out at $48 per day
Management at NCA Flight Operations is a whole new experience to any Western mind. Every meeting is basically to decide when the next meeting will be and NO decisions are made. The Westerners working here are regarded as a number and just somebody that can be used and abused as they see fit. This goes from rostering all the way to crew administration. Complaints, and suggestions and request are totally ignored and no feedback is provided. They act as if a problem is ignored, it will eventually go away. The blame game is also being played between NCA and the Contracting agencies (PARC & HACS)
The main shareholders in NCA, up to about a year ago were ANA (All Nippon Airways) and NYK (Nippon Yusen Kaisha), one of the biggest and richest shipping companies in the world. NYK subsequently bought the ANA shares and is now the majority share holders of NCA. ANA all these years provided operational support and training to NCA which is coming to an end in 2009. The two companies is busy going through a slow divorce process where NCA will eventually stand alone in 2009, called “Project Phoenix”.
The company (NCA) is also going through a fleet renewal where the 747 Classics are replaced by 747-400F’s. The training on the 747-400 last a whopping 6-7 months. Notification time before the course could be anything from 10-14 days at best.
If you want to be unsure of your future, being away from home, want to be part of the “mushroom club”, sit and watch how money is wasted, see miss-management, listen to pilots complaining and be generally frustrated, this is the place for you.
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Failure rate for Western Captains = 22% (and counting),
FO's = 0 (nothing yet)
Japanese Captains = unsure but definetly higher than their Western counterparts
Japanese FO's = 0
FO's = 0 (nothing yet)
Japanese Captains = unsure but definetly higher than their Western counterparts
Japanese FO's = 0
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Pilotx744 are you currently with NCA? I just received the "terms" and the package sounds much different than mentioned above? $10k plus per month/per diem $76 plus per day for FOs. I would love to hear more on rosters, cockpit culture etc. How are you seat locked for 5yrs on a 3.5 year contract? Not questioning your position...just trying to figure out the "truth" from those in the know versus think they know. Thanxs for your inputs.
- Flea
- Flea
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Hamil
Dude I am sure your joking............
I would not work a SQ cargo if it was the last out fit in the world. We have our troubles at NCA but atleast it ain't SQC......
Pitotman
I would not work a SQ cargo if it was the last out fit in the world. We have our troubles at NCA but atleast it ain't SQC......
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Anybody working for NCA and complaining CAN NOT work for any other Cie in the world
Just name me an Airlines where the FO are making around $11000 a month net and the Captain around 14000 to 17000
plus 10 days OFF a month plus 24 Days of annual leave ect....
Just name me an Airlines where the FO are making around $11000 a month net and the Captain around 14000 to 17000
plus 10 days OFF a month plus 24 Days of annual leave ect....
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Flea, with regard to your first question. I'm not in a position to disclose any contract details with you or anybody else.
Henceforth, as you will see there is no mention of "terms" of conditions in my post. 5 years seat lock? ... mentioned by somebody else. What I can tell you is that you won't upgrade in the first 3.5 year contract. You will get $76 for the first 24 hours of stay, thereafter it will average out to round about $50 per day, check the fine print in the terms that you have got. This by the way is applicable to Capt's and FO's.
As far as rosters is concerned, it varies month to month. With the introduction of the -400, it's in turmoil as there are various rules and regulations (JCAB & NCA) as to who can fly with who. You can expect anything from a 15 -21 day roster. With -400's arriving thick and fast, it will lean more towards a 21 day roster as the company cannot train the guys fast enough. There will be a huge shortage of crew, as the company reluctantly not recruited for the last year. This combined with the high failure rate of the course is a recipe for tough times ahead.
Henceforth, as you will see there is no mention of "terms" of conditions in my post. 5 years seat lock? ... mentioned by somebody else. What I can tell you is that you won't upgrade in the first 3.5 year contract. You will get $76 for the first 24 hours of stay, thereafter it will average out to round about $50 per day, check the fine print in the terms that you have got. This by the way is applicable to Capt's and FO's.
As far as rosters is concerned, it varies month to month. With the introduction of the -400, it's in turmoil as there are various rules and regulations (JCAB & NCA) as to who can fly with who. You can expect anything from a 15 -21 day roster. With -400's arriving thick and fast, it will lean more towards a 21 day roster as the company cannot train the guys fast enough. There will be a huge shortage of crew, as the company reluctantly not recruited for the last year. This combined with the high failure rate of the course is a recipe for tough times ahead.
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HO HO Pitot Man
do I detect some frustration
With that kind of language you w ont pass your level 4
I know a little bit about your contract as I am flying in Japan myself
In fact I know many pilots flying for NCA
They always hanging at TGI or Outback in Shinagawa
But may be they did not told me the truth
do I detect some frustration
With that kind of language you w ont pass your level 4
I know a little bit about your contract as I am flying in Japan myself
In fact I know many pilots flying for NCA
They always hanging at TGI or Outback in Shinagawa
But may be they did not told me the truth
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Pilotx744 thanxs for your insight.
With the shortage of crew and the fleet growing from about 10 to 24 a/c what do you see as realistic timeframe for the opportunity to upgrade is? How many nights do you typically overnight at your base during 15-20 day trip? Would love to hear any other thoughts on the job and future of NCA. If to personal for the forum, could you PM me? -Flea
With the shortage of crew and the fleet growing from about 10 to 24 a/c what do you see as realistic timeframe for the opportunity to upgrade is? How many nights do you typically overnight at your base during 15-20 day trip? Would love to hear any other thoughts on the job and future of NCA. If to personal for the forum, could you PM me? -Flea
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Lindi
The answer to your question...yes very frustrated. This could be and should be one of the best jobs in the world and NCA is screwing it up badly.
Another Captain resigned today due to NCA's lack of communication and movement on our conditions...
Name an airline.............here is a couple..........Cathay mainline, Air Canada, BA, all pay more in the left and right seat...then the current NCA contract...
I just find people like you comical...Instead of promoting our plight as professional pilots you scar it with your mentality. I would not be entirely surprised if you were not even a pilot and some office boy at NCA trying to justify the continued degradation of our contract....
Pitotman
Left coaster..........ya sure that wasn't a rumor from Taipei..........
Another Captain resigned today due to NCA's lack of communication and movement on our conditions...
Name an airline.............here is a couple..........Cathay mainline, Air Canada, BA, all pay more in the left and right seat...then the current NCA contract...
I just find people like you comical...Instead of promoting our plight as professional pilots you scar it with your mentality. I would not be entirely surprised if you were not even a pilot and some office boy at NCA trying to justify the continued degradation of our contract....
Pitotman
Left coaster..........ya sure that wasn't a rumor from Taipei..........
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NO I am not jealous at all
I make more than that a month net for flying a 767
No I have never paid for a type rating and I will not start now
And No I do not work for NCA
Let say I was WRONG but I was TOLD by many pilots flying with NCA that they had such beautiful condition
Perhaps the fact that NCA were sold to a new administration ,your working conditions have been reduced
I am really sorry for all of you
But Now what can you do to maintain or rather improve those working conditions??
It is very difficult to do it when you are on contract with an agency
I make more than that a month net for flying a 767
No I have never paid for a type rating and I will not start now
And No I do not work for NCA
Let say I was WRONG but I was TOLD by many pilots flying with NCA that they had such beautiful condition
Perhaps the fact that NCA were sold to a new administration ,your working conditions have been reduced
I am really sorry for all of you
But Now what can you do to maintain or rather improve those working conditions??
It is very difficult to do it when you are on contract with an agency
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Guys, I would have to agree with pitotman and pilotx744. It's closer to the truth about the current conditions at NCA. I have a few buddies who are based out of SFO and they do concur with pitotman and pilotx744's posts.
Also, there are many 744 outfits that pay way less than 10k gross/month.
And if lindbergB767 makes 10k-11k+ NET/month BASE PAY on a 767 in Japan as an expat F/O, he's full of s%#t unless he's a captain (Gross, maybe 11.5k - 12.5k with all the extra "perks." I hope I understood his post correctly. If not, oops, apologize beforehand.) To make over 11k/month net, your gross would have to be between 13k-15k, depending on the tax bracket/status of whatever country, etc. I don't think so - unless you're a mainline JAL or ANA F/O. I know Skymark doesn't pay much either - because the Japanese pilots there are leaving for contract jobs with Air Japan and JP Express (ANA subsidiaries) and other JAL subsidiaries.
I've been looking and prospecting for contract jobs for a while - especially in Japan. But it's really pitiful - pay's pretty decent even compared to major US carriers (if you can get around the tax situation, even better), but the training and work conditions are horrendous. You guys really need stand up to the contract agencies and the companies to better your lifestyles. 10 days off and only 24 days of vacation?????? Come on, most airline pilots in the US have 15 - 20 days off and can make minimum 4 weeks worth of vacation.
I hope things work out for the better for current and future NCA pilots. At least your expat counterparts at ANA finally got confirmed business seats or $2,000 commuting allowance and maybe even a significant pay raise in the near future. (just heard that from a couple of excited friends of mine over there)
Also, there are many 744 outfits that pay way less than 10k gross/month.
And if lindbergB767 makes 10k-11k+ NET/month BASE PAY on a 767 in Japan as an expat F/O, he's full of s%#t unless he's a captain (Gross, maybe 11.5k - 12.5k with all the extra "perks." I hope I understood his post correctly. If not, oops, apologize beforehand.) To make over 11k/month net, your gross would have to be between 13k-15k, depending on the tax bracket/status of whatever country, etc. I don't think so - unless you're a mainline JAL or ANA F/O. I know Skymark doesn't pay much either - because the Japanese pilots there are leaving for contract jobs with Air Japan and JP Express (ANA subsidiaries) and other JAL subsidiaries.
I've been looking and prospecting for contract jobs for a while - especially in Japan. But it's really pitiful - pay's pretty decent even compared to major US carriers (if you can get around the tax situation, even better), but the training and work conditions are horrendous. You guys really need stand up to the contract agencies and the companies to better your lifestyles. 10 days off and only 24 days of vacation?????? Come on, most airline pilots in the US have 15 - 20 days off and can make minimum 4 weeks worth of vacation.
I hope things work out for the better for current and future NCA pilots. At least your expat counterparts at ANA finally got confirmed business seats or $2,000 commuting allowance and maybe even a significant pay raise in the near future. (just heard that from a couple of excited friends of mine over there)
Last edited by Capt. John Doe; 4th Dec 2007 at 15:30.
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So is that confirmed then......confirmed BIZ or 2000 usd for the commute ?
There was a thread saying that, but it has disappeared.
And HACS still have the same old terms on their web site.
Is it passed, or just a very strong will happen soon ?
There was a thread saying that, but it has disappeared.
And HACS still have the same old terms on their web site.
Is it passed, or just a very strong will happen soon ?
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I believe (via the grapevine) that AJV/AJX are in fact getting the 1 B/Class or $2000, per month deal. That is great news for them, congratulations guys.
As the trend on this aspect of the contract world in Japan is now set, let see what NCA will make out of this. If they want to attract future hires they will have to do something similar, otherwise they're not going to get pilots that's interested. Or even, guys leaving NCA for AJV/X as we already have the licences and on top of that, get the protection of the ANA union.
As the last ANA pilots seconded to NCA leave, the union protection will go with them. NCA management will now have a field day with our rosters and other conditions, the writing is on the wall.
I don't think NCA is aware of the crisis they are going to face when their brand new -400's and -8's are parked without guys to fly them. Only time will tell!!
As the trend on this aspect of the contract world in Japan is now set, let see what NCA will make out of this. If they want to attract future hires they will have to do something similar, otherwise they're not going to get pilots that's interested. Or even, guys leaving NCA for AJV/X as we already have the licences and on top of that, get the protection of the ANA union.
As the last ANA pilots seconded to NCA leave, the union protection will go with them. NCA management will now have a field day with our rosters and other conditions, the writing is on the wall.
I don't think NCA is aware of the crisis they are going to face when their brand new -400's and -8's are parked without guys to fly them. Only time will tell!!
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union protection?????
Pilotx744, sorry to burst your bubble.
You refer to guys moving to AJV/X and getting union protection.
There is NOOOO union protection as expat crewmembers with these outfits, in fact, the contract specifically forbids ANY union activity.
Any NCA guy rushing to move to AJX/V had better have a verrrrry close look at the terms.
An AJX captain, on commencement will be on around US$9000/ month basic foir the 1st year. It will then rocket up to US$10400 pre month. Per diem =US$ 48 once training is complete. That would put him almost on par with an NCA F/O.
AJV is similar, except add US$1500 and 1 extra days off for "fatigue"
The rumours of significant pay rises in AJX/V are just that. RUMOURS. It would appear that the company is confident that the new commute deal will be enough. This brings it almost to the same level as Korean's deal and still way below many other contracts.
Guys, do your homework very carefully before making any moves
You refer to guys moving to AJV/X and getting union protection.
There is NOOOO union protection as expat crewmembers with these outfits, in fact, the contract specifically forbids ANY union activity.
Any NCA guy rushing to move to AJX/V had better have a verrrrry close look at the terms.
An AJX captain, on commencement will be on around US$9000/ month basic foir the 1st year. It will then rocket up to US$10400 pre month. Per diem =US$ 48 once training is complete. That would put him almost on par with an NCA F/O.
AJV is similar, except add US$1500 and 1 extra days off for "fatigue"
The rumours of significant pay rises in AJX/V are just that. RUMOURS. It would appear that the company is confident that the new commute deal will be enough. This brings it almost to the same level as Korean's deal and still way below many other contracts.
Guys, do your homework very carefully before making any moves
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I recently applied to NCA via PARC. I was turned down because my 744 rating is as an FO.
PARC asked me if I could do sth to get my rating as PIC!!
I never heard sth like that before. And in the case I had a 744 PIC rating, I would never aplly for an FO seat.
Do they really find guys out there with a 744 PIC ticket willing to go and seat on the right side after 7 fre
months of japanese ATPL lecture???
PARC asked me if I could do sth to get my rating as PIC!!
I never heard sth like that before. And in the case I had a 744 PIC rating, I would never aplly for an FO seat.Do they really find guys out there with a 744 PIC ticket willing to go and seat on the right side after 7 fre
months of japanese ATPL lecture???