Working for Korean?
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Working for Korean?
Anyone living in LA working for KAL on a commutercontract?
Is the commuting OK?
Do you get your days off in the US as promised?
Do you get any layovers in LA?
And some general questions:
Can I as a european just by a house in the US with my family and work for KAL? Do I need any work permit or similar?
Any info from the horse's mouth would be appreciated.
Fly safe!
Is the commuting OK?
Do you get your days off in the US as promised?
Do you get any layovers in LA?
And some general questions:
Can I as a european just by a house in the US with my family and work for KAL? Do I need any work permit or similar?
Any info from the horse's mouth would be appreciated.
Fly safe!
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KAL and US bases
Hola Expat -
xxx
I have no recent news about the conditions with KAL. Some 15 years ago, many friends (former PanAm colleagues) had joined KAL flying 747-200 and were based in the US, most were Anchorage base (cargo), and some were based on the West Coast (LAX/SFO). I am gone from the US since that time and lost contact with them. I remember them being quite satisfied with their rosters, and ample time to commute from their US home, sometimes on the US East Coast. The one complaint was that their F/Os and F/Es did converse in Korean, very poor English... few F/O ever were sufficiently trained to handle a takeoff or landing, so they said that they "soloed" the airplanes.
xxx
As far as buying a house in the US, no problems there for any foreigner to buy a house. The housing market is severely depressed right now in the US, and the US $ exchange rate is at a record low, unfortunately, your KAL contract will be probably in dollars... As far as buying , there are bargains.
xxx
Since you will enter and exit constantly on a crew visa, no problems, anyone can buy a house (call it a "second residence" as opposed to your European domicile). However, for your family to be there full time, will require them to hold a residence visa, as they would be limited to 90 days "visits" with their European passport. Get advice from an immigration lawyer there. Watch-out about your status also for income tax if you are considered to live there by the IRS (Internal Revenue Service, the tax people).
xxx
I used to live in the LA area when I lived in the US, I recommend the areas known as "Orange County" and "Ventura County" as the best for a family residence. Closer to LAX, the areas North of the airport are acceptable, that would be "Santa Monica", and the West side of the "San Fernando Valley". And first, you will need a car, public transport in LA is worthless. Cars, as you probably know, are inexpensive. You can buy a new/used car in two hours' time there, including insurance and registration. Learn the freeways to drive around on the maps. Everything is "many miles away"... from where you are. LAX crew parking is non-existant (for KAL and others), so, park your car at the hotel used by KAL crews (in the Santa Monica area if not changed) and ride the hotel bus to the international terminal.
xxx
Happy contrails
xxx
I have no recent news about the conditions with KAL. Some 15 years ago, many friends (former PanAm colleagues) had joined KAL flying 747-200 and were based in the US, most were Anchorage base (cargo), and some were based on the West Coast (LAX/SFO). I am gone from the US since that time and lost contact with them. I remember them being quite satisfied with their rosters, and ample time to commute from their US home, sometimes on the US East Coast. The one complaint was that their F/Os and F/Es did converse in Korean, very poor English... few F/O ever were sufficiently trained to handle a takeoff or landing, so they said that they "soloed" the airplanes.
xxx
As far as buying a house in the US, no problems there for any foreigner to buy a house. The housing market is severely depressed right now in the US, and the US $ exchange rate is at a record low, unfortunately, your KAL contract will be probably in dollars... As far as buying , there are bargains.
xxx
Since you will enter and exit constantly on a crew visa, no problems, anyone can buy a house (call it a "second residence" as opposed to your European domicile). However, for your family to be there full time, will require them to hold a residence visa, as they would be limited to 90 days "visits" with their European passport. Get advice from an immigration lawyer there. Watch-out about your status also for income tax if you are considered to live there by the IRS (Internal Revenue Service, the tax people).
xxx
I used to live in the LA area when I lived in the US, I recommend the areas known as "Orange County" and "Ventura County" as the best for a family residence. Closer to LAX, the areas North of the airport are acceptable, that would be "Santa Monica", and the West side of the "San Fernando Valley". And first, you will need a car, public transport in LA is worthless. Cars, as you probably know, are inexpensive. You can buy a new/used car in two hours' time there, including insurance and registration. Learn the freeways to drive around on the maps. Everything is "many miles away"... from where you are. LAX crew parking is non-existant (for KAL and others), so, park your car at the hotel used by KAL crews (in the Santa Monica area if not changed) and ride the hotel bus to the international terminal.
xxx
Happy contrails
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Before you come to KAL, make sure you have a backup because once you start OE, you just might want to run out the door.
Even if you are familiar with asian airline culture, this place is in a class all by itself.
..........
Even if you are familiar with asian airline culture, this place is in a class all by itself.
..........
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Any specifics?
Some say the "asian culture" thing is good. Maybe you could tell us what it is about "asian AIRLINE culture" that we should know about. FWIW, I presently fly U.S. - Asia routes with a North American carrier.
Just need info. Thanks
Just need info. Thanks
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Asian culture is...
Having flown for six years at Japan Airlines, Asian culture is.....
1) Accepting the fact that as a foreigner, you are a second class citizen.
2) In training, you are inferior to the local pilot, but we locals can train you to our standards.
3) As a foreigner, never question why the Asian airline does things this way or that way. And never ask why you don't do it the American way or the Canadian way. That will get you fired immediately.
4) Their standards can be difficult to understand and /or adjust too as a foreigner.
5) Never ask the WHY question (Japanese "DO****A"). i.e... Why does this do that? Or why do you do it that way? It places Asians in an uncomfortable position of explaining something they themselves don't know. Because Asian society accepts things as fact.
6) In Japan, discrimination will exist. (Very subtle). Foreigners can't just rent a place to live anywhere. Often Japanese landlords won't allow foreigners to rent from them. So, often foreigners are forced to live in a central location with other foreigners...like Yokahama.
7) JAL ticket agents were notorious for attempting to downgrade foreign aircrew members from First to Business (Captain's) and Business to Coach
(First Officers and Flight Engineers) when deadheading on International legs. While providing First and Business class seats to Japanese crews on the very same flight.
8) One foreign JAL Captain, who was fluent in Japanese, was subjected to a Japanese (JAL) Flight Attendant racial slur. She had apologized to a Japanese businessman -in Japanese- who was sitting next to the foreign JAL captain in first class (he was deadheading out of uniform) between Hawaii and Tokyo. That the airline was sorry that he (the businessman) had to sit next to the smelly foreigner in First Class and there were no other seats to relocate the businessman too.
1) Accepting the fact that as a foreigner, you are a second class citizen.
2) In training, you are inferior to the local pilot, but we locals can train you to our standards.
3) As a foreigner, never question why the Asian airline does things this way or that way. And never ask why you don't do it the American way or the Canadian way. That will get you fired immediately.
4) Their standards can be difficult to understand and /or adjust too as a foreigner.
5) Never ask the WHY question (Japanese "DO****A"). i.e... Why does this do that? Or why do you do it that way? It places Asians in an uncomfortable position of explaining something they themselves don't know. Because Asian society accepts things as fact.
6) In Japan, discrimination will exist. (Very subtle). Foreigners can't just rent a place to live anywhere. Often Japanese landlords won't allow foreigners to rent from them. So, often foreigners are forced to live in a central location with other foreigners...like Yokahama.
7) JAL ticket agents were notorious for attempting to downgrade foreign aircrew members from First to Business (Captain's) and Business to Coach
(First Officers and Flight Engineers) when deadheading on International legs. While providing First and Business class seats to Japanese crews on the very same flight.
8) One foreign JAL Captain, who was fluent in Japanese, was subjected to a Japanese (JAL) Flight Attendant racial slur. She had apologized to a Japanese businessman -in Japanese- who was sitting next to the foreign JAL captain in first class (he was deadheading out of uniform) between Hawaii and Tokyo. That the airline was sorry that he (the businessman) had to sit next to the smelly foreigner in First Class and there were no other seats to relocate the businessman too.
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Thanks for posting the above. Stuff that I have known to exist, but not having (yet) to work for them, it hasn't been really that noticeable.
Koreans or Japanese- who is easier to work for?
No offense meant to any of the above mentioned nationalities, or any other nationality.
Koreans or Japanese- who is easier to work for?
No offense meant to any of the above mentioned nationalities, or any other nationality.
Last edited by Decolar; 8th Dec 2007 at 03:17.
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Koreans are more difficult to work for than the Japanese.
The Koreans aren't afraid to... "Stick it to the foreigners" if need be, where the Japanese try to put on a façade of being polite.
Koreans have a belief of “Self Juche”, or Self Reliance. This is more prevalent with North Koreans, but applies to South Koreans as well. It’s one reason Korean Air Pilot’s can’t stand the fact foreigners are flying for the national airline and not Korean nationals. And one of the reasons they make it difficult to work for Korean Air. And to a lesser degree, Asiana. The bottom line is… ”you’re not welcome.”
The reason your there is of course...airline accidents.
The Koreans aren't afraid to... "Stick it to the foreigners" if need be, where the Japanese try to put on a façade of being polite.
Koreans have a belief of “Self Juche”, or Self Reliance. This is more prevalent with North Koreans, but applies to South Koreans as well. It’s one reason Korean Air Pilot’s can’t stand the fact foreigners are flying for the national airline and not Korean nationals. And one of the reasons they make it difficult to work for Korean Air. And to a lesser degree, Asiana. The bottom line is… ”you’re not welcome.”
The reason your there is of course...airline accidents.
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Oh, give me a break.
I've just been through the Korean Airlines training... yes it can be a bit of a slog, but they're still paying you. I found the LCP's (Line Check Pilots) who do the OE (operating experience- they don't consider it to be 'line training') to be helpful and knowledgeable. I even asked them questions and had reasonable answers. Yes, some people have been given a hard time, but that can happen in any airline.
As for the so-called overt racism, if you take the trouble to learn a bit about the people, the country, learn a bit of Korean, they will bend over backwards to help you.
As with any job, it's what you make of it........
I've just been through the Korean Airlines training... yes it can be a bit of a slog, but they're still paying you. I found the LCP's (Line Check Pilots) who do the OE (operating experience- they don't consider it to be 'line training') to be helpful and knowledgeable. I even asked them questions and had reasonable answers. Yes, some people have been given a hard time, but that can happen in any airline.
As for the so-called overt racism, if you take the trouble to learn a bit about the people, the country, learn a bit of Korean, they will bend over backwards to help you.
As with any job, it's what you make of it........
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How true. Just wait and see...
And Koreans DO NOT and WILL NOT bend over backwards to help you - especially if you're a foreigner taking away "their jobs." I think angryblackman summed up the two cultures very, very well. Don't forget, Japan and Korea are still two of the most racist and discriminatory cultures out there - many people don't realize that. Never judge the book by its cover...
To duckbelly and others who haven't been in Korea or Japan for long, always watch your six.
And Koreans DO NOT and WILL NOT bend over backwards to help you - especially if you're a foreigner taking away "their jobs." I think angryblackman summed up the two cultures very, very well. Don't forget, Japan and Korea are still two of the most racist and discriminatory cultures out there - many people don't realize that. Never judge the book by its cover...
To duckbelly and others who haven't been in Korea or Japan for long, always watch your six.
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I've been flying for KAL for 7 years and have nothing serious to complain about. But the working environment is not as warm and touchy-feely as in some Western companies. This might hurt some sensitive people...
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Angryblackman hit the nail on the head. I had an interview and sim detail with KAL a few years ago for 744 Capt. KAL put me up in the worst hotel I've been in for decades and the local pilots obviously set out to humiliate the foreigners. I was shouted and screamed at in the Sim and told to fly it in a manner no competent pilot would ever do. No checklist or briefing provided. The english in the exam I sat was so bad I found some of the questions difficult to comprehend and the pin-ups on the wall relating to CRM was just a box ticking exercise, again in poor english. KAL and I parted company before I even started. If you want to work for KAL you better be a real sycophant.
Stay away from KAL.
Stay away from KAL.
Last edited by skol; 10th Dec 2007 at 03:59.
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"sycophant"
Love it,
Noun1.
ass-kisser - a person who tries to please someone in order to gain a personal advantage.
Love it,
Noun1.
ass-kisser - a person who tries to please someone in order to gain a personal advantage.Thanks "SKOL" learnt a new word today!
Had a totally different experience to you, but hey, I can relate, english is not their first language or understanding. It can be a frustrating experience.
I have repaired to other grounds.
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Well TARCS I,m willing to give anyone a fair go but if that's their standard of training and you're expected to do checklist items out of your head I know why they're bending those things. The instructor on this occasion, a Capt. Lee, seemed to be a Jekyll and Hyde sort of character who seemed pleasant enough, but prone to fits of shouting and rage once he entered the simulator. Also in the simulator were 2 observing KAL f/o's obviously being shown how you treat the foreign devils.
KAL has some very fundamental problems that aren't going to go away anytime soon.
KAL has some very fundamental problems that aren't going to go away anytime soon.
Last edited by skol; 10th Dec 2007 at 23:12.
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Thanks for the info guys.
However, is there anyone who has a more specific answers to my questions?
If you don't want to post I'll be happy for a PM.
However, is there anyone who has a more specific answers to my questions?
If you don't want to post I'll be happy for a PM.
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it's not true.
Working with Korean Air as an expat crew never ever allow to have an experience any racism and discrimination you mentioned before. I've felt a lot of bias and unwillingly helping-out attitude from our own local staff at korean Air as a Korean pilot. I Garantee you guys that don't worry about the racism,but the rostering.
Last edited by faiser; 12th Dec 2007 at 01:17.