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Vietnam Airlines (info please)

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Vietnam Airlines (info please)

Old 15th Jul 2017, 08:15
  #1341 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Moscow
Posts: 16
Here it start

Yesterday an a321 put the wheels out of the runway in danang... it is jus the beginning ,nothing to do with racism as the Cpt was expat and the FO is one of the Brand new FO that replaced the expat FO.
Open you eyes for f! Sake!
тщательный 😓😓
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Old 15th Jul 2017, 08:17
  #1342 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Moscow
Posts: 16
Ahh

Btw inflammatory remarks... is that a new desease? Do we need take paracetamol for that ? Loolllzzzz
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Old 18th Jul 2017, 00:11
  #1343 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 50
Here are "two cents" from a guy, who spent many years working for VN: while it's sad to see many expats being let go, foreign pilots need to understand that they are only CONTRACTORS. That's right. There to fill seats till these seats can be covered by a local pilot. Every national airline has the right and should aim to "nationalize" it's airline, as this is much cheaper and we are in the business world. Will it effect their operation and drive the already low standards shown by newcomer pilots even lower ? Most certainly. But it's their airline and their decision to make. For years Vietnam Airlines has been a good to a great place for many expat pilots. They were pretty much the only airline to offer upgrade opportunities to F/Os, Captains could switch fleets or become instructors and examiners. Career opportunities were give to those, who were initially hired to fill a vacant seat. While many operational decisions were always questionable, the locals were always very kind to most of us, therefore insulting and calling them names is LOW CLASS ! You may not agree with their policies, philosophies and decisions, but again it's their airline and it's their right to decide which way they want to steer the ship (a direction I find highly questionable and it was one of my reasons to leave after many years). At one time VN had the monopoly flying domestic routes. With VJ in the mix and more competition from outside, VN is not the only option for passengers anymore. The economic pressure is there to save money and it's usually the contract pilots who are the first "casualties". And, if you are being let go with a 60 day notice, you are not being "fired". Your contract is clearly saying you can be let go with a certain timely notice. Am I concerned to where VN is heading ? Having left many friends (locals and expats) behind I am very concerned. Economically and yes operationally. Economically the airline is not prepared to face the wind of competition. Operationally I have seen standards from new First Officers go to a very concerning low point with not all but many simply being afraid to fly and make a mistake, always seeing the much dreaded "level" and the "safety debrief (public humiliation and loss of face)" in front of their eyes. Safe flying, guys. Stick together instead of spending time bashing the company and each other. With VN's current direction everyone may need to buckle up tight !

Last edited by wingdeagle; 18th Jul 2017 at 00:31.
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Old 18th Jul 2017, 10:58
  #1344 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Moscow
Posts: 16
Yep

Yes i totally agree with u. Most of the local they are nice guys,but we are taking about safety here.
And yes more , we need to buckle up expcially when we are positioning , we never know who you have as a crew ...it's like a ... Russian roulette nowadays 😂😂😂😂
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Old 18th Jul 2017, 15:04
  #1345 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nihon
Posts: 1
These morons are now advertising for Cpt/FO on the A350. What a joke ! Moreover, the clowns in SGN are calling back the A-321 FOs they fired 2 months ago.Of course, these FOs gave them the finger.

Between the the new local Cpts, the local cadets and the P2F, VN is heading to a catastrophic event ! I am just hoping not being in that plane !
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Old 18th Jul 2017, 21:08
  #1346 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bali
Posts: 29
There you go. Monkeys who couldn't get the bananas they want wishing ill on others. Sigh!
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 06:30
  #1347 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nihon
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Am I telling any lie ? These morons are looking for Cpts on the ATR with transition to the Airbus fleet, they are looking for A-321 Cpts too ! On the meanwhile they have fired all the A-321 SFOs who where more than ready for command and they plan to do the same with the A-330 SFOs.
Tell me if these guys are not greedy monkeys, firing people, who are in VNA for years to take some guys, from more than suspect countries, and rich kids on P2F.
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 18:06
  #1348 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
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Mate give it a rest!
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 02:48
  #1349 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: asia
Posts: 98
Well it's official, the Captain that "took over" the controls late (from a low hour-freshly released FO) and prevented a major catastrophe has been terminated. Word of advise: don't risk your job and be the PF all of your sectors, especially with this kind of weather that we've had lately...
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 15:27
  #1350 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Moscow
Posts: 16
IV just heard the news today ..
But nooooo we are racist , but noooo the local are wonderful .... but nooooo we are contractors .
wtf!!! Wake up!!!
They guy just saved an a321!!!! And had been terminated !!!!Because his fo, son of , friend of , uncle of, with super perfcet air style wsnt able to keep a ******* center line!!!!!!!!!!
But nooooooo we are racists but noooo we are contractors....
kurvah my 2 cents
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 16:20
  #1351 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by Ruzki View Post
IV just heard the news today ..
But nooooo we are racist , but noooo the local are wonderful .... but nooooo we are contractors .
wtf!!! Wake up!!!
They guy just saved an a321!!!! And had been terminated !!!!Because his fo, son of , friend of , uncle of, with super perfcet air style wsnt able to keep a ******* center line!!!!!!!!!!
But nooooooo we are racists but noooo we are contractors....
kurvah my 2 cents
Hi Ruzki, yes, you are a contractor or are you not ? The locals are nice, but not the ones making the decisions in this Flying Circus Wanna Be An Airline ! The majority of them are stuck in the system (you may know the word "system" ?).
Centerline control has been an issue for years ! How about crosswinds ? Did you ever have to help out with the rudder with a 7kt crosswind ? Cessna 150 limitation is 12, by the way. All this is nothing new. Re-read my post about the low standards.
Wake up ? I did and left ! Safety and the associated stress were my concern. You advise the current employees to wake up. I am sure most of them are awake, but what is your suggestion ? Another "October Revolution" ;-) ?
My suggestion is: all expats lay down your work and get the f..k out ! Now they can see how to run the Flying Circus since they know it all so much better !
Nice thought, but not so easy, right ? Expats who are settled there with families, children in schools, girlfriends and motobikes need to be paid for. Easy to tell them all to "wake up". How about you go to the fleet office and tell them that. I am sure they will appreciate it. Stay safe !

Last edited by wingdeagle; 20th Jul 2017 at 16:48.
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 18:08
  #1352 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Moscow
Posts: 16
Alredy done.
Last 2 months in this flying circuss
Of today we all have been called from stby cos those great great and nice local don't dare to fly
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 07:36
  #1353 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nihon
Posts: 1
No Viet can be fired, as simple as that ! These guys , one day soon , will kill people.

Some SFOs , more than ready for command, are showed the door, to allow, these local top guns to be on the left seat.

the circus will stop when VNA will write off an aircraft or will injured someone.


Ps Where did it happen ?
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 10:53
  #1354 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: london
Posts: 52
That one was DAD i think. Latest grass cutting exercise 11L at HAN yesterday i believe.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 14:25
  #1355 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Asia
Age: 45
Posts: 470
Would VNA guys preffer to fly for JPA?
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 11:50
  #1356 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 36N 33E
Posts: 116
Sorry

Guys; I deleted my last post as I was posting in a rumor only; but it seems it was not so much a rumor after all.
Some of my latin american coleagues confirmed to me and I was shown pictures of the Runway Excursion in Hanoi; it was a complete excursion of the right main wheel; the Da Nang excursion did apparently break a few runway lights after it was affected by a 27kt gust left crosswind (reported wind by TWR was wind veing variable with 3!), but returned to the center of the runway without leaving the paved surface; it still requires to be mentioned that it IS and foremost will always be a Captains responsability to decide who is in what function during a critical phase and what to do when things do not go as planned. The Expat Pilot is at fault for that oversight, NO matter the experience level of the First Officer. What I was explained by colleagues is that he IS accepting full responsability, something I admire of him! (Yes, perhaps a local pilot would not, but perhaps he would, we do not know...)
The Hanoi incident crew was reported to have been a local, to say full Vietnamese crew, and the aircraft's right main wheel completely left the paved surface. I was not told if the aircraft returned to the runway, if it taxied to the gate or stayed where it was. And its not important now...
The part that is of importance is that colleagues of us, be it Expats or Locals, made dificult yet wrong decisions, and I belive its easy to blame and point fingers when he/she was not or has never been in that situation, but yes, it would be nice to see "constructive corrective actions" instead of a correction that is typical of the punitive culture that everyone hates so much, be it local or foreign.
What happened last week is bad; not for the Expats, not for the locals, but for ANY pilot professionally operating in Vietnam!
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 19:56
  #1357 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nihon
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by EagleA25 View Post
Guys; I deleted my last post as I was posting in a rumor only; but it seems it was not so much a rumor after all.
Some of my latin american coleagues confirmed to me and I was shown pictures of the Runway Excursion in Hanoi; it was a complete excursion of the right main wheel; the Da Nang excursion did apparently break a few runway lights after it was affected by a 27kt gust left crosswind (reported wind by TWR was wind veing variable with 3!), but returned to the center of the runway without leaving the paved surface; it still requires to be mentioned that it IS and foremost will always be a Captains responsability to decide who is in what function during a critical phase and what to do when things do not go as planned. The Expat Pilot is at fault for that oversight, NO matter the experience level of the First Officer. What I was explained by colleagues is that he IS accepting full responsability, something I admire of him! (Yes, perhaps a local pilot would not, but perhaps he would, we do not know...)
The Hanoi incident crew was reported to have been a local, to say full Vietnamese crew, and the aircraft's right main wheel completely left the paved surface. I was not told if the aircraft returned to the runway, if it taxied to the gate or stayed where it was. And its not important now...
The part that is of importance is that colleagues of us, be it Expats or Locals, made dificult yet wrong decisions, and I belive its easy to blame and point fingers when he/she was not or has never been in that situation, but yes, it would be nice to see "constructive corrective actions" instead of a correction that is typical of the punitive culture that everyone hates so much, be it local or foreign.
What happened last week is bad; not for the Expats, not for the locals, but for ANY pilot professionally operating in Vietnam!
Should we cry ?
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 06:30
  #1358 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 36N 33E
Posts: 116
If it makes you happy...

Originally Posted by kimono1950 View Post
Should we cry ?
Sure; but since not everyone of us thinks of themselfs being Captain America himself and belive this could happen to me, too, a little compassion and constructive critizism should be in place. You might be in one of these situations yourself one day and react wrong. We are all too human...

But here a thought: ever spent a minute or two thinking about WHY local pilots are the way they are? Or why there is a general Anti-Expat consensus among them?
Question to you, me guessing you being an Expat like me: would a Vietnamese pilot be allowed to work in YOUR country? Not in mine, and it has nothing to do with their skill level but where the pilot was born...
I politely would like you think a little, you, like me, are a guest worker here taking advantage of a need that the country themselves can not cover as we are not happy working in our own country. We have no right to claim anything...

Last edited by EagleA25; 26th Jul 2017 at 06:34. Reason: Grammar
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 07:33
  #1359 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by EagleA25 View Post
Sure; but since not everyone of us thinks of themselfs being Captain America himself and belive this could happen to me, too, a little compassion and constructive critizism should be in place. You might be in one of these situations yourself one day and react wrong. We are all too human...

But here a thought: ever spent a minute or two thinking about WHY local pilots are the way they are? Or why there is a general Anti-Expat consensus among them?
Question to you, me guessing you being an Expat like me: would a Vietnamese pilot be allowed to work in YOUR country? Not in mine, and it has nothing to do with their skill level but where the pilot was born...
I politely would like you think a little, you, like me, are a guest worker here taking advantage of a need that the country themselves can not cover as we are not happy working in our own country. We have no right to claim anything...
I could have not said it better, Eagle .

I do agree with the previous statements that unless they really bend metal (and they are on the best way to do it) no one will ever care to ask WHY things are the way they are.

The ever lower getting standards by some (not all) locals, but also Expats with very questionable background and performance will keep hurting the safety record of this airline.

Management has no urge to ask WHY. It's always easier to blame the pilots for not following SOPs than impose a real change. Change away from punitive culture to SMS (I am sure VNA management does not even know what SMS is ... they were too busy chasing the 4th star from Skytrax ... a private company only frequent travelers know about; the majority of traveling public does not, nor do they care). Change will also mean admitting that the way things are going is not the right way, since "loss of face" comes in. Keep having the idiotic "safety debriefs", publicly humiliate pilots; and management is off the hook.

This company has more problems than they realize and deserves tons of criticism. But personally insulting locals, calling them names, using prejudist and racist slurs like a few on this board is discrediting to the ones who are posting them.

Stay safe guys !

Last edited by wingdeagle; 30th Jul 2017 at 23:29.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 10:32
  #1360 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 2
Hi

Sorry if my email are not appropriate.

I'm just graduated from flight school, and hold ICAO CPL/IR/ME License. Now I'm looking for Line Training Program and job opportunity after that.

I found an advertising about Vietjet Line Training program few days ago. Is there any guy who had experience with LT program?
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