Spicejet v Jet v Air India Express
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Spicejet v Jet v Air India Express
I am considering applying for a 737NG captain's job in India.Spicejet attracts generally favourable comment but I understand that the leave is unpaid (apart from a travel allowance),whereas I believe that Jet and Air India Express pilots are paid normal salary during leave.On the face of it the annual earnings at Spicejet would be a lot lower than at Jet or AIE - are there other factors to consider when comparing the 3 airlines which would make the pay differential less significant eg better quality accommodation at Spicejet?
Also I understand that Spicejet work their Captain's very hard-how do Jet and AIE compare? I have done the appropriate search with some older information but I would appreciate up to date feedback.Thankyou.
Also I understand that Spicejet work their Captain's very hard-how do Jet and AIE compare? I have done the appropriate search with some older information but I would appreciate up to date feedback.Thankyou.
Last edited by Caissa; 4th Oct 2007 at 16:00.
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Spicejet is a smaller "friendlier" outfit and you can have a personal rapport with all concerned. There are a great bunch of guys here. We have expat pilots from the US, Australia, Trinidad, Indonesia, Thailand, Saudi Arabia and we seem to be outnumbering the Indian Capts. No Indian's are joining Spicejet as Capts as of late. We are hiring non NG qualified Capts with high PIC jet time (B747/B777/B757/767).We are short Captains and hence you will work pretty hard. You probably will not get the 8 days off a month mentioned in your contract. Expect to fly 6 days a week and a minimum of 100 hrs a month. Monthly roster is published but not followed. Daily schedule changes (most airlines here are no different). Hotels are becoming an issue as F/O's are being moved to guest houses. Capt's based in Delhi are being moved to other hotels. With overtime you will make about the same as Jet/AI express if not more. Spicejet hopes to start International flying next year. We just got a HAJ contract in Nov from AI express. Frankly I am not sure how we are going to pull it off. We can barely fly our normal schedule with the folks we have. Korean Air and others are offering better terms (12 days off guaranteed with positive space tickets home, plus $9500/month base, plus housing etc).NG offers are plently these days. I am here with my family (apartment) and so many of these issues don't affect me, other than rostering. Hope that this post gives you an honest view of the place. Best wishes.
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I would have to agree with Nevrekar, Spice Jet is a smaller more friendly company. As with any small company, they are experiencing some growing pains. The Hotel situation in Delhi at the moment seems to be stickler for most Ex Pats. Prior to mid July, the City Club had allotted us sufficient accomodations for all Ex Pats currently on duty. That has changed a bit and some Pilots are now being placed in the Avalon. The City Club is a nice facility, with gym, shopping right across the street, and some pretty nice resturants within a 5 minute cab ride. Not so with the Avalon, I hear that cab drivers have a hard time finding it and you need to take a cab just to buy some toothpaste. Nothing in close proximity. We hear that a solution to that problem is currently in the works.
Step One would be to get your Indian Security Clearance. That in itself can take upwards of 60 days, once you submit your paperwork. If you wish to pm me, I will give you more details.
Good Luck
Step One would be to get your Indian Security Clearance. That in itself can take upwards of 60 days, once you submit your paperwork. If you wish to pm me, I will give you more details.
Good Luck
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Thanks for both replies to my post.Having spent many years as an expat pilot I know that accommodation quality is a major factor in staying happy.It appears that Spicejet are downgrading the quality of accommodation somewhat.Taking into account the F/Os letter and the financial loss ,both mentioned elsewhere on prune,I will not be applying for a job at Spicejet particularly with the unpaid leave.
That leaves Jet and AIE to be considered-can anyone offer up to date comments on the relative merits of these airlines? Thanks.
That leaves Jet and AIE to be considered-can anyone offer up to date comments on the relative merits of these airlines? Thanks.
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QRH-- You have mentioned you have experience as an expat pilot. You will also then agree that there is no perfect contract or perfect airline.
Airlines in India are posting loses and that might continue. As a contractor I doubt that any of that will affect you in the very short term, depending on the length of contract you are seeking. If you have ruled out Spicejet because of just the accomodation factor and you are only looking at AIE or JetAirways, I would pick JetAirways. It is an established airline with a good reputation. But you will hear complaints about Jet as well. The great thing at Spicejet for expats is you can actually talk to someone if you have an issue.
The EVP of flight Ops Capt Jatti Dhillon, Chief Pilot Jack Ekl and Asst. Chief Bobby Russell will actually answer the phone when you call them day/night.
The check pilots and training staff are friendly and very helpful. These are good folks. The shortcoming is a small airline experiencing growing pains and short staffing because of it. If you address your concerns about the accomodation factor I am sure they will work hard to resolve it for you. Expat Capts in Hydrebad stay at the Taj or the Marriott (5 star), Calcutta-Oberio (5Star), Ahmebabad, Taj (5 Star). Delhi is the weak link right now with some being put up at the Avalon. I am told this is temporary and will be resolved.
They are offering HYD and Chennai bases and so you will have 5 star accomodations. Best wishes and good luck with your decision. If you change your mind and consider Spicejet, we'll leave the light on for you!!
Airlines in India are posting loses and that might continue. As a contractor I doubt that any of that will affect you in the very short term, depending on the length of contract you are seeking. If you have ruled out Spicejet because of just the accomodation factor and you are only looking at AIE or JetAirways, I would pick JetAirways. It is an established airline with a good reputation. But you will hear complaints about Jet as well. The great thing at Spicejet for expats is you can actually talk to someone if you have an issue.
The EVP of flight Ops Capt Jatti Dhillon, Chief Pilot Jack Ekl and Asst. Chief Bobby Russell will actually answer the phone when you call them day/night.
The check pilots and training staff are friendly and very helpful. These are good folks. The shortcoming is a small airline experiencing growing pains and short staffing because of it. If you address your concerns about the accomodation factor I am sure they will work hard to resolve it for you. Expat Capts in Hydrebad stay at the Taj or the Marriott (5 star), Calcutta-Oberio (5Star), Ahmebabad, Taj (5 Star). Delhi is the weak link right now with some being put up at the Avalon. I am told this is temporary and will be resolved.
They are offering HYD and Chennai bases and so you will have 5 star accomodations. Best wishes and good luck with your decision. If you change your mind and consider Spicejet, we'll leave the light on for you!!
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5 star in India is not 5 star in the west especially when it comes to food. A lot of hygiene problems, and if you decide to come and work here, you will log a lot of "bathroom" time. At AIE the pay is constantly late and at times you will wait hours for your hotel room, especially in Mumbai. The commuting is the best in India, biz class to anywhere you want (assuming AI serves it). Not to get off the subject, but if you want the highest pay combined with the highest quality of life, call Park and go to Japan.
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I respectfully disagree with you on the 5 Star issue. The service provided here in India at 5 Stars is second to none. It is true that most newcomers suffer from "Delhi belly" upon arrival and perhaps the Indian cuisine may not be to everyone's liking. Apart from that you should not be gastronomically challenged on a regular basis. If you are then perhaps there may some other health issue at hand that needs to be investigated.
On the subject of pay, at Spicejet pay has always been early (direct deposit) before the 1st of the month. Overtime is paid in arrears (following month).
Never had to wait for a hotel or for transport. No complaints from others to the best of my knowledge.
For those wishing to go to Japan or Korea be prepared for the astronaut physical and expect the same every six months. You may even be asked to have certain surgeries or procedures done before they will hire you because you have not met their standard of physical fitness.
On the subject of pay, at Spicejet pay has always been early (direct deposit) before the 1st of the month. Overtime is paid in arrears (following month).
Never had to wait for a hotel or for transport. No complaints from others to the best of my knowledge.
For those wishing to go to Japan or Korea be prepared for the astronaut physical and expect the same every six months. You may even be asked to have certain surgeries or procedures done before they will hire you because you have not met their standard of physical fitness.
Last edited by Nevrekar; 9th Oct 2007 at 02:37.
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Spot on Nevrekar, having lived in Europe for the past 3 years, their 5 star hotels are no where as compared to India's in terms of service or luxury. Also, the food bills are pretty steep.
Take a curry course, as this may help one discover there actually are people living across the street who can win at cricket.
Take a curry course, as this may help one discover there actually are people living across the street who can win at cricket.
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Good thread.
It's been almost a year since I looked closely, but my impression of expat contracts for all three outfits was that the bottom lines were rather similar. For example, one might not pay for leave, but would cover more meals (can be a BIG issue when staying in the aformentioned five-star hotels - five star prices). I'm very pleased with SpiceJet. The time off issue will resolve itself somewhat if you run up against 1000 hours per year.
No Delhi-belly either (knocking heavily on a wooden desk!!!). Years in Mexico and the Caribbean may have built up some resistance, but the food has been well-prepared everywhere I've stayed.
It's been almost a year since I looked closely, but my impression of expat contracts for all three outfits was that the bottom lines were rather similar. For example, one might not pay for leave, but would cover more meals (can be a BIG issue when staying in the aformentioned five-star hotels - five star prices). I'm very pleased with SpiceJet. The time off issue will resolve itself somewhat if you run up against 1000 hours per year.
No Delhi-belly either (knocking heavily on a wooden desk!!!). Years in Mexico and the Caribbean may have built up some resistance, but the food has been well-prepared everywhere I've stayed.
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Yep......that does say a lot. He's prolly jumpin a bond or violating a contract that he signed with AIE......lol. Also that Spice's prolly a better organisation....
.
Cheers.
.Cheers.
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He left AIE for Spice jet only to get his choice of base as only spice was offering that to him. He needed to be at home more often and decided to pay bond and move to his home base. He went for lower pay and more rigorous schedule. Didnt you ask him the reason NG Expat??
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Spicejet
Guys and girls
Yep , 5 star is the best in the world if you are prepared to complain when its 4 star
Also a little tip and speak one word , shuckria to say a little thanks
always makes the meal and service extra quick and raises a smile
An expat uk
Namaste
Yep , 5 star is the best in the world if you are prepared to complain when its 4 star
Also a little tip and speak one word , shuckria to say a little thanks
always makes the meal and service extra quick and raises a smile
An expat uk
Namaste
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Nevrekar, AIEXPATS is talking I think about AI owned 4 and 5 star hotels that seem to have a magical star rating which relates to nothing in the real world - I know a couple of guys who flew with AIEX and they said the standard of some of the hotels is simply appalling.
I honestly have to wonder where some of the other 5 star Indian hotels got their ratings, either. They all charge unjustifiable nightly rates that relate to nothing other than what they think they can extract from you or your company. I suspect this stems from the fact that they know you ain't got a choice, as anything lower than that star-wise would need a bodyguard and a strong stomach to endure. There simply aren't enough "5 star" hotels to go around especially during the high season, so you end up with a choice of 1 hotel and staying in something that pays vague lip-service to its 5 stars. Secondly, many of them have shoals of people standing around in uniforms doing absoloutely nothing, and the actual service levels are pitiful. Thirdly, many of the "managers" behind the front desks have a serious streak of attitude problem, especially if you point out some of the issues politely.
Examples - I've frequently been quoted in writing prior in Bucks or Euros, then at the end of the stay given a bill in Rupees far higher than that when you convert. When you query your bill, you're told with a straight face that it's converted at the "hotel" rate, and it's not possible to charge Euro or USD to your credit card! Their attitude is "Hey, you're rich, just pay it and shut up".
Another typical scenario is you stay somewhere a few nights and pay the wireless internet bill for your room, then on the last day you check out. Flights back to Europe are at around midnight that night, so you often end up back at the hotel that evening hanging around for a few hours - you want to check your e mails and you are given a rate 10 times what you paid in the room, despite having paid your extortionate bill for several days earlier that morning. Most expats I know who have flown there tend to have 2-4 real food "events" per year, even being very careful what they eat, ie; no salads or veggies practically. One last one - you arrive to a 5 star late at night off a flight, there's one person at the desk despite a large queue and knowing that all the flights come in at that time, when you finally check in you have to wait an hour to have your bag delivered to your room.
None of that spells service to me, and I'm not the only one who wonders at the myth of Indian 5 star service. And yes, I do stay at pilot hotels, and I do smile and tip people. I'm not a whinger, but I understand the necessary ratio between what you pay and what service you should receive, and the hotel bills there are monumental. I know there are some fabulous hotels in India, but they're usually the exception and booked out.
I honestly have to wonder where some of the other 5 star Indian hotels got their ratings, either. They all charge unjustifiable nightly rates that relate to nothing other than what they think they can extract from you or your company. I suspect this stems from the fact that they know you ain't got a choice, as anything lower than that star-wise would need a bodyguard and a strong stomach to endure. There simply aren't enough "5 star" hotels to go around especially during the high season, so you end up with a choice of 1 hotel and staying in something that pays vague lip-service to its 5 stars. Secondly, many of them have shoals of people standing around in uniforms doing absoloutely nothing, and the actual service levels are pitiful. Thirdly, many of the "managers" behind the front desks have a serious streak of attitude problem, especially if you point out some of the issues politely.
Examples - I've frequently been quoted in writing prior in Bucks or Euros, then at the end of the stay given a bill in Rupees far higher than that when you convert. When you query your bill, you're told with a straight face that it's converted at the "hotel" rate, and it's not possible to charge Euro or USD to your credit card! Their attitude is "Hey, you're rich, just pay it and shut up".
Another typical scenario is you stay somewhere a few nights and pay the wireless internet bill for your room, then on the last day you check out. Flights back to Europe are at around midnight that night, so you often end up back at the hotel that evening hanging around for a few hours - you want to check your e mails and you are given a rate 10 times what you paid in the room, despite having paid your extortionate bill for several days earlier that morning. Most expats I know who have flown there tend to have 2-4 real food "events" per year, even being very careful what they eat, ie; no salads or veggies practically. One last one - you arrive to a 5 star late at night off a flight, there's one person at the desk despite a large queue and knowing that all the flights come in at that time, when you finally check in you have to wait an hour to have your bag delivered to your room.
None of that spells service to me, and I'm not the only one who wonders at the myth of Indian 5 star service. And yes, I do stay at pilot hotels, and I do smile and tip people. I'm not a whinger, but I understand the necessary ratio between what you pay and what service you should receive, and the hotel bills there are monumental. I know there are some fabulous hotels in India, but they're usually the exception and booked out.
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bear11
bear11 I'm agree with you, in plain language they said cheating that's how they are working here, Nevrekar only lucky he has expat management, he also must know expat working under local management.
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Speed,
Why don't you get some grammar lessons before you post please.And while you're at it,do the punctuation too...!! It will immensly help the people trying to read and actually trying to understand your posts...!!
Thanks.
Why don't you get some grammar lessons before you post please.And while you're at it,do the punctuation too...!! It will immensly help the people trying to read and actually trying to understand your posts...!!
Thanks.
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Nevrekar: I have to disagree on your somewhat misguided essay on 5-star hotels in India (as others have done before me).
I can actually remember the days when a 5-star hotel in India was what you believe it still is and available at Rs 750 per night (Taj Intercontinental in Bombay, about 1980).
Whilst there are some very nice properties in India, they are not necessarily exceptional - apart from their extortionate room rates. For instance, a room for a weekend (Fri-Mon) at a 5-star hotel in Bombay will set you back a cool US$ 1,000. Book a similar hotel in Singapore, and it will be half of that, and in KL or Bangkok even less. I very much doubt you will rate the service in either of the three alternative locations lower, but you'll have the added advantage in being in cities that have a reasonable level of civic amenities and public transport.
The other point is that the hotels in Singapore, Bangkok and KL are probably paying their staff far better, too!
I can actually remember the days when a 5-star hotel in India was what you believe it still is and available at Rs 750 per night (Taj Intercontinental in Bombay, about 1980).
Whilst there are some very nice properties in India, they are not necessarily exceptional - apart from their extortionate room rates. For instance, a room for a weekend (Fri-Mon) at a 5-star hotel in Bombay will set you back a cool US$ 1,000. Book a similar hotel in Singapore, and it will be half of that, and in KL or Bangkok even less. I very much doubt you will rate the service in either of the three alternative locations lower, but you'll have the added advantage in being in cities that have a reasonable level of civic amenities and public transport.
The other point is that the hotels in Singapore, Bangkok and KL are probably paying their staff far better, too!
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hotels
al fakham
I can actually remember the days when a 5-star hotel in India was what you believe it still is and available at Rs 750 per night (Taj Intercontinental in Bombay, about 1980).
update
these hotels are full .
occupancy is more than they can handle.
and people are still ready to pay and wait in lobby for the room to be ready.
that means they know what they are paying is worth it........
its basicaly consumer knows what he wants,and he pays for the quality.
I can actually remember the days when a 5-star hotel in India was what you believe it still is and available at Rs 750 per night (Taj Intercontinental in Bombay, about 1980).
update
these hotels are full .
occupancy is more than they can handle.
and people are still ready to pay and wait in lobby for the room to be ready.
that means they know what they are paying is worth it........
its basicaly consumer knows what he wants,and he pays for the quality.
