Clark Institute of Aviation
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Thanks for the lead to the FB page.
Clark Aviation has always been owned by Alpha Aviation, no?
In any case, the old timers in the PPRuNe will remember the heated discussions about the many many problems and heavy delays they had to complete the MPL training. Are all the initial MPL pilots formed in Clark now employed?
Will these people resolve the issues and make the initiative a success?
Photos of Alpha Aviation Group | Facebook
Clark Aviation has always been owned by Alpha Aviation, no?
In any case, the old timers in the PPRuNe will remember the heated discussions about the many many problems and heavy delays they had to complete the MPL training. Are all the initial MPL pilots formed in Clark now employed?
Will these people resolve the issues and make the initiative a success?
Photos of Alpha Aviation Group | Facebook
Last edited by traveller93; 14th Jan 2012 at 01:56.
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Clark Aviation has always been owned by Alpha Aviation, no?
Taras B is correct, Clark Aviation simply went through a re-branding exercise to align its name with the main investor, C & C Alpha based in the UK. It was determined by some marketing consultant (not exactly rocket science in this case) that the persistent bad press over the last 5 years was irreversible so the rebrand exercise was the only option left.
Another driver for the change occurred closer to home. The Regional Director for Clark, P Singh, is being investigated in Singapore for allegations for corruption / bribery. He was the principle director who set up Clark Aviation with the English guy and it appears (alleged) that substantial sums of money (student fees) were removed at his direction, resulting in insuffucient funds to purchase aircraft (remember the 18 month - 2 year delay for the Clark cadets before their flying training started).
Anyhow, to answer the original question, same decision makers leading Clark (now Alpha) Aviation.
Another driver for the change occurred closer to home. The Regional Director for Clark, P Singh, is being investigated in Singapore for allegations for corruption / bribery. He was the principle director who set up Clark Aviation with the English guy and it appears (alleged) that substantial sums of money (student fees) were removed at his direction, resulting in insuffucient funds to purchase aircraft (remember the 18 month - 2 year delay for the Clark cadets before their flying training started).
Anyhow, to answer the original question, same decision makers leading Clark (now Alpha) Aviation.
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Thanks Taras B and Bennyboy1.
So, it seems that very little, or nothing, has changed.... But the new management only took over in December and, perhaps, they should be given a chance to show rapid results. "Rapid" being the key word!!!
A review of the various threads about Clark and Alpha indicate that there might be MPL pilots, formed by Clark, still without an airline to work for. I read that these pilots are from the first batches, back in 2005. Is this true?
If true, then I think it should be the new management's top priority to resolve this unfair situation first and start with a clean slate. After all, they paid for the MPL training in full and after being promised employment on a successful MPL course completion. Still reading the threads we can see that others, not airline aligned, have been given priority and are now flying for AA. This looks like discrimination and must be eradicated. We would like to know what is the Philippines' government intending to do about this since it gives the country a very bad image.
Regarding Benny's statement in respect of some corruption/bribery charges investigations, these are long overdue and it is hoped that they will lead to some international warrant for the arrest of the culprits. The destruction of peoples' lives cannot go unpunished.
The solutions are in the hands of the new AAG's management.
So, it seems that very little, or nothing, has changed.... But the new management only took over in December and, perhaps, they should be given a chance to show rapid results. "Rapid" being the key word!!!
A review of the various threads about Clark and Alpha indicate that there might be MPL pilots, formed by Clark, still without an airline to work for. I read that these pilots are from the first batches, back in 2005. Is this true?
If true, then I think it should be the new management's top priority to resolve this unfair situation first and start with a clean slate. After all, they paid for the MPL training in full and after being promised employment on a successful MPL course completion. Still reading the threads we can see that others, not airline aligned, have been given priority and are now flying for AA. This looks like discrimination and must be eradicated. We would like to know what is the Philippines' government intending to do about this since it gives the country a very bad image.
Regarding Benny's statement in respect of some corruption/bribery charges investigations, these are long overdue and it is hoped that they will lead to some international warrant for the arrest of the culprits. The destruction of peoples' lives cannot go unpunished.
The solutions are in the hands of the new AAG's management.
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Clark Aviation's PPL,CPL/IR + A320 FOT Program
Dont know why my post didnt show up here. reposting!
Hi giords88,
Trained with AAG for FOT. True, they sent us to France cause the sim’s fully booked but they paid for all additional charges-VISA, airfare, accommodations. Heard nothin about previous trainees asked to pay for the addl fees for training abroad! We were there for the sessions on the full flight sim, rest was done in Clark. Checked my training footprint and I’m pretty sure the MCCs done on ALSIM 200 FNPT 2 bro. Got to know some of their cpl students too and theyre flight training was frustrating before but they’re flying was on track when I was there. They seemed to have ironed out their “flight line” problems. Saw their new students still in ppl and they seem to be pampering this guys. Being trained for Airphil. I came from another school myself but me and my batchmates agree that AAGs got the best facility, man. they also got a new full flight sim on the way. saw it all over their Fb page. If you asked me before I trained there would’ve said go to another school for cpl but go check them out. they got trainees for all the local airlines except for Pal of course
Good luck, man!
Hi giords88,
Trained with AAG for FOT. True, they sent us to France cause the sim’s fully booked but they paid for all additional charges-VISA, airfare, accommodations. Heard nothin about previous trainees asked to pay for the addl fees for training abroad! We were there for the sessions on the full flight sim, rest was done in Clark. Checked my training footprint and I’m pretty sure the MCCs done on ALSIM 200 FNPT 2 bro. Got to know some of their cpl students too and theyre flight training was frustrating before but they’re flying was on track when I was there. They seemed to have ironed out their “flight line” problems. Saw their new students still in ppl and they seem to be pampering this guys. Being trained for Airphil. I came from another school myself but me and my batchmates agree that AAGs got the best facility, man. they also got a new full flight sim on the way. saw it all over their Fb page. If you asked me before I trained there would’ve said go to another school for cpl but go check them out. they got trainees for all the local airlines except for Pal of course
Good luck, man!
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January 24, 2012, opening ceremony of the third batch of the Airline Pilot Training (APT) course of Alpha Aviation Group Philippines. These cadets are also to be trained for the A320 First Officer pilot requirement of client airline Airphil Express.
Opening Ceremony of 3rd Batch of Airline Pilot Training of AAG Ph | Facebook
Opening Ceremony of 3rd Batch of Airline Pilot Training of AAG Ph | Facebook
Last edited by Left Wing; 25th Jan 2012 at 13:08.
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January 24, 2012, opening ceremony
Good to hear about a fresh batch of cadets starting at Alpha Aviation (rebranded Clark Aviation), unfortuneately a week prior to the celebration they wrote off another C172. The cadet managed to get himself out of the crumpled mess and is OK, however Clark Aviation have now lost three aircraft in the last 4 years, with just 2 C152's and 2 C172's left and no plans to replace, yet keep taking in more and more (tuition fees) Does this sound awfully familiar?
Assuming 1 aircraft is on the ground undergoing maintenance at any one time, Im not sure how 25-30 cadets on a flight line manage to share 3 aircraft and complete a program with an organisation that is notorious for taking tuition fees, promising the world and quite simply failing to deliver every time. I could have the maths wrong here but it looks like another training delay disaster looming at Clark. if you promise an airline x number of cadets in 1 year, what do you say to them 2 or 3 years later, as what happened with Clark Aviation (Alpha) and Cebu Pacific.
If there are cadets out there considerring Alpha, ask some very detailed questions about the training delivery schedule. Better still, check the reaction when you ask for some kind of reasonable financial penalty clause from Alpha if they dont deliver - just a normal, reasonable expectaion of completion. Remember its your money but watch the reaction you get.
Assuming 1 aircraft is on the ground undergoing maintenance at any one time, Im not sure how 25-30 cadets on a flight line manage to share 3 aircraft and complete a program with an organisation that is notorious for taking tuition fees, promising the world and quite simply failing to deliver every time. I could have the maths wrong here but it looks like another training delay disaster looming at Clark. if you promise an airline x number of cadets in 1 year, what do you say to them 2 or 3 years later, as what happened with Clark Aviation (Alpha) and Cebu Pacific.
If there are cadets out there considerring Alpha, ask some very detailed questions about the training delivery schedule. Better still, check the reaction when you ask for some kind of reasonable financial penalty clause from Alpha if they dont deliver - just a normal, reasonable expectaion of completion. Remember its your money but watch the reaction you get.
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the news is that... 6 C172 glass cockpit coming soon
Great news, then including a reasonable expectation of completion' clause should be no problem, especially given that some of the current CPLIR students are coming up to 2 years and still waiting to complete a 190 hour program. The simlator was coming for the last 4 years, it wont be there until late this year. Cebu Pacific recieved a substantial compensation payout from Alpha Aviation for an MPL program that was promised within 18 months and took more than 3 years. Promises, promises, promises. bottom line, 3 aircraft divided into 30 cadets doesnt work.
Has anybody explained this to the cadets Left Wing. Does any of the current cadets actually have a reasonable training plan that tells them when they should finish, provided by management. Lets try the word no to both these most basic of questions questions
Has anybody explained this to the cadets Left Wing. Does any of the current cadets actually have a reasonable training plan that tells them when they should finish, provided by management. Lets try the word no to both these most basic of questions questions
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Taras B.. not change of heart; in aviation you dont think form your heart you act with known SOPs and related training and facts.
My comment was related to the fly by night flying schools who were giving Philippines aviation a very poor name. Where as guys like AAG, Omni, PAL school are going by the right process and are fully approved and audited by CAAP.
Bennyboy1.. pls feel free to go to the AAG office and get these questions clarified and feel free to grill the person make a list of questions you have and get them addressed, no point in crying on an anonymous form. best wishes mate.
My comment was related to the fly by night flying schools who were giving Philippines aviation a very poor name. Where as guys like AAG, Omni, PAL school are going by the right process and are fully approved and audited by CAAP.
Bennyboy1.. pls feel free to go to the AAG office and get these questions clarified and feel free to grill the person make a list of questions you have and get them addressed, no point in crying on an anonymous form. best wishes mate.
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pls feel free to go to the AAG office and get these questions clarified
Last count on this PPrune blog there were in excess of one thousand entries effectively criticising of the lousy management team at Alpha Aviation. Broken promises, corruption, tuition fees mis-appropriated, massive delays, indifference to the welfare of the cadets etc etc.
Is there anything, anything at all, that someone can post that can actually demonstrate that something has changed. New aircraft promised, but undeliverred. 30 cadets and 3 aircraft, fact. If there is something that can be verified that these new aircraft are coming, Bill of Sale, arrival date, anything other than just more fluff, it might add some credibility.
Is there anything, anything at all, that someone can post that can actually demonstrate that something has changed. New aircraft promised, but undeliverred. 30 cadets and 3 aircraft, fact. If there is something that can be verified that these new aircraft are coming, Bill of Sale, arrival date, anything other than just more fluff, it might add some credibility.
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From what I heard, they were all endorsed to Cebu Pacific, Zest Air, Airphil. There are I think 6 MPL graduates who are unemployed, out of 100 MPL graduates. The foreigners were referred to Air Arabia but some of them turned that down, don’t know why. In all fairness to AAG, bumps in the road and all that, they produced almost 100 MPL graduates who did get into airlines. That’s saying something.
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As an interested bystander, we've had similar debates in Europe about Employment success stories via certain flight schools, the point being...
Some schools have a very good track record of their students securing airline employment, but is it down to the student or the FTO?...
In the Philippines it's been an applicants market for quite some time (i'd say at least 18 months) rather than an employers (i.e where there are very few jobs and lots of candidiates, where the airline can pick and choose at will). For the locals at least anyway - no real expat recruitment. Are these students employed becuase they got an MPL through Alpha - I don't think so, they were employed because they got their licence and they probably did all the hard work in securing and passing the interview themselves. They could've got a job by going to any school, getting their licence and they're probably good pilots anyway - otherwise wouldn't have got onto an MPL program. By going to Alpha, they've spent 3 years, doing a 2 year course that they've paid top dollar for... this means 1 year more of expenses e.g accom, food etc. Lack of consistency - perhaps needing remedial training etc, not to mention lost time and stress.
There is a distinction to be made between training for initial CPL/IR issue and A320 training. Having seen the A320 operation, I don't see how a TRTO in their right mind can rely on leftover sim from the airlines (i.e Cebu/PAL) to conduct a business, promising to get people out in 10weeks I think the official line is (for Type rating only). Besides my A320 Type Rating in the US and everyone else's I know took 5-6 weeks (even with some short gaps for a break of 2/3 days) - so 10 weeks is already long. Obviously if you're lucky enough to be rushed through on the APX scheme, being sent to France to get the sims done, then things will seem a lot better. Additionally $800 per hour for FFS is ridiculous... most places i've seen are around $200 per hr cheaper. On the plus side once they get their new sim all to themselves, maybe things will be ok. Also the instructors I hear are very good.
My suggestion... go to Leading Edge, get your licence in a year or so for P1.5 Mill, then (reluctantly) do the Type Rating with Alpha once their new sim is up and running (as CAAP and at least Zest/APX require it).
Some schools have a very good track record of their students securing airline employment, but is it down to the student or the FTO?...
In the Philippines it's been an applicants market for quite some time (i'd say at least 18 months) rather than an employers (i.e where there are very few jobs and lots of candidiates, where the airline can pick and choose at will). For the locals at least anyway - no real expat recruitment. Are these students employed becuase they got an MPL through Alpha - I don't think so, they were employed because they got their licence and they probably did all the hard work in securing and passing the interview themselves. They could've got a job by going to any school, getting their licence and they're probably good pilots anyway - otherwise wouldn't have got onto an MPL program. By going to Alpha, they've spent 3 years, doing a 2 year course that they've paid top dollar for... this means 1 year more of expenses e.g accom, food etc. Lack of consistency - perhaps needing remedial training etc, not to mention lost time and stress.
There is a distinction to be made between training for initial CPL/IR issue and A320 training. Having seen the A320 operation, I don't see how a TRTO in their right mind can rely on leftover sim from the airlines (i.e Cebu/PAL) to conduct a business, promising to get people out in 10weeks I think the official line is (for Type rating only). Besides my A320 Type Rating in the US and everyone else's I know took 5-6 weeks (even with some short gaps for a break of 2/3 days) - so 10 weeks is already long. Obviously if you're lucky enough to be rushed through on the APX scheme, being sent to France to get the sims done, then things will seem a lot better. Additionally $800 per hour for FFS is ridiculous... most places i've seen are around $200 per hr cheaper. On the plus side once they get their new sim all to themselves, maybe things will be ok. Also the instructors I hear are very good.
My suggestion... go to Leading Edge, get your licence in a year or so for P1.5 Mill, then (reluctantly) do the Type Rating with Alpha once their new sim is up and running (as CAAP and at least Zest/APX require it).
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My question still is:
"Is AAG/Clark proposing the already formed, and waiting for a job, MPL pilots to AirPhil Express?
If not, why not?"
Captainbrad
Could you elaborate on what you say here?
"There are I think 6 MPL graduates who are unemployed....... The foreigners were referred to Air Arabia but some of them turned that down, don’t know why."
Lets see if you talk FACTS or BS.....
"Is AAG/Clark proposing the already formed, and waiting for a job, MPL pilots to AirPhil Express?
If not, why not?"
Captainbrad
Could you elaborate on what you say here?
"There are I think 6 MPL graduates who are unemployed....... The foreigners were referred to Air Arabia but some of them turned that down, don’t know why."
Lets see if you talk FACTS or BS.....
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traveller93...
I have no firm facts to your question but i'd add a couple of comments:
The last advert, I saw of Alpha's glossy newspaper advertising campaign for the FOT program (they advertise in the local newspapers regularly) - stated that they had a relationship with an airline... so could offer a job/line training. However they also said candidiates would have to pass the independent assessment process with the airline.
Secondly assuming they are talking about Airphil, which I guess they are - without searching for the recruitment advert, i'm almost certain the prelisted requirements state, a degree, min 21 years old and at least 200hours.
Would have thought any MPL pilot should be able to achieve each of the above but should they not, then I guess Alpha would be in a position to do nothing.
In addition from what i've heard of Alpha, the more you complain, the worse it's gonna get for you!
I have no firm facts to your question but i'd add a couple of comments:
The last advert, I saw of Alpha's glossy newspaper advertising campaign for the FOT program (they advertise in the local newspapers regularly) - stated that they had a relationship with an airline... so could offer a job/line training. However they also said candidiates would have to pass the independent assessment process with the airline.
Secondly assuming they are talking about Airphil, which I guess they are - without searching for the recruitment advert, i'm almost certain the prelisted requirements state, a degree, min 21 years old and at least 200hours.
Would have thought any MPL pilot should be able to achieve each of the above but should they not, then I guess Alpha would be in a position to do nothing.
In addition from what i've heard of Alpha, the more you complain, the worse it's gonna get for you!
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Thanks bananaman.
It is accepted that every airline has the right to have its own entry requirements. Airphil would not be different.
Nevertheless, Clark/AAG are not free from charges of malicious business practices and financial and personal damages to those that were promised guaranteed employment. That is the truth!!!
Regarding the blackmail you say is going on, well.... there is a time when even a mouse will fight the cat when there is nothing else to loose and the sheer survival depends on it. Remember that AAG is an international enterprise with several governments involved. I'm sure they don't want that kind of scandals....
As it is being said on this forum, there appears to be several individuals on the run after "cashing in" money paid by the cadets to AAG/Clark on fraudulent contracts.
AAG can resolve these issues rapidly and fairly. All it needs to do is provide the outstanding guys with valid CPL/IR type rated A320 licences and then they would have to go fend for themselves in the pilot's employment market place. After all, they already paid for a licence. No?
On the other hand, what is AAG/Clark doing towards convincing the Philippino carriers (i.e. Cebu, Zestair, Airphil, Seair, etc.) to accept their foreign MPLrs as done with the philippino nationals (even those who were not aligned)? After all, they were all trained to the same standards (CebuPac SOPs) and were issued with CAAP licences.
Are those poor souls facing a serious case of discrimination in a country that has millions of its own citizens labouring overseas?
I just don't understand why AAG is not doing it.....
But I still want an answer to this....
"Captainbrad
Could you elaborate on what you say here?
"There are I think 6 MPL graduates who are unemployed....... The foreigners were referred to Air Arabia but some of them turned that down, don’t know why."
Lets see if you talk FACTS or BS..... "
It is accepted that every airline has the right to have its own entry requirements. Airphil would not be different.
Nevertheless, Clark/AAG are not free from charges of malicious business practices and financial and personal damages to those that were promised guaranteed employment. That is the truth!!!
Regarding the blackmail you say is going on, well.... there is a time when even a mouse will fight the cat when there is nothing else to loose and the sheer survival depends on it. Remember that AAG is an international enterprise with several governments involved. I'm sure they don't want that kind of scandals....
As it is being said on this forum, there appears to be several individuals on the run after "cashing in" money paid by the cadets to AAG/Clark on fraudulent contracts.
AAG can resolve these issues rapidly and fairly. All it needs to do is provide the outstanding guys with valid CPL/IR type rated A320 licences and then they would have to go fend for themselves in the pilot's employment market place. After all, they already paid for a licence. No?
On the other hand, what is AAG/Clark doing towards convincing the Philippino carriers (i.e. Cebu, Zestair, Airphil, Seair, etc.) to accept their foreign MPLrs as done with the philippino nationals (even those who were not aligned)? After all, they were all trained to the same standards (CebuPac SOPs) and were issued with CAAP licences.
Are those poor souls facing a serious case of discrimination in a country that has millions of its own citizens labouring overseas?
I just don't understand why AAG is not doing it.....
But I still want an answer to this....
"Captainbrad
Could you elaborate on what you say here?
"There are I think 6 MPL graduates who are unemployed....... The foreigners were referred to Air Arabia but some of them turned that down, don’t know why."
Lets see if you talk FACTS or BS..... "
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so u actually believe them?
Why not go to them and ask for confirmation via a contract. Make them sign a contract saying that they will have those 6 planes ready by the time that the promise.
The same thing was promised a AAG in Sharjah. A friend of mine was that the planes actually came 2 years after they were promised. The students actually got fed up of asking for the latest news on the planes!
I for one do not trust a word they say anymore!
Why not go to them and ask for confirmation via a contract. Make them sign a contract saying that they will have those 6 planes ready by the time that the promise.
The same thing was promised a AAG in Sharjah. A friend of mine was that the planes actually came 2 years after they were promised. The students actually got fed up of asking for the latest news on the planes!
I for one do not trust a word they say anymore!
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Training Contract Guarantee with Financial Penalty
If you are seriously considerring singing a training contract with these fools, take some ownership in the agreement. Its your money and your future. If Alpha - Clark Aviation or whatever they are calling themselves these days claim its all different to how it has been these last 5 years, the lies and corruption are a thing of the past, then say good, put in a clause that guarantees completing training with a reasonable but specified period of time with financial penalties if they fail to deliver.
If the (latest) round of promises about 6 new aircraft are true, shouldnt be a problem.
Remember, the demand for fresh CPLIR cadets from the airlines is cyclic so dont expect the same demand to be here in a year or two. Some of the PAL cadets waited 5-6 years before they were taken.
If the (latest) round of promises about 6 new aircraft are true, shouldnt be a problem.
Remember, the demand for fresh CPLIR cadets from the airlines is cyclic so dont expect the same demand to be here in a year or two. Some of the PAL cadets waited 5-6 years before they were taken.
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AAG
Now that CEB/ CAE have jumped into bed with each other and the new planned super complex which should be ready before the end of this year, could this be the nail in the coffin for CIA .
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'Now that CEB/ CAE have jumped into bed with each'
You make a good point Coffindodger, Cebu Pacific have shut the door on Alpha Aviation and their joint partnership with CAE at the Clark Airport will offer a much more comprhensive and professionally run Simulator training centre.
The only other major airline in the Philippines, PAL/Air Phil Express, have their A320 simulator up and running as of late last year as well so without any opportunity to sign a contract with a serious A320 operator in the country, how do fill 5-6,000 hours of sim time per year. How do you service the USD$7 million dolloar loan Alpha Aviation have now signed up to with the Maybank? Do you commit to a massive loan on ad-hoc Type Ratings that is notoriously cyclic?
Heres the clue, the AAG Regional Director, P Singh from Prescient Systems is also the CAE agent who effectively sold the simulator to the business that he is a Director of, and pocketed the commission. Due process, conflict of interest or business as usual.
AAG have just celebrated signing up their 30th CPLIR cadet and only have, on average, 2 Cessna 152's and 1 old C172 available for training use. How do you explain to cadets the 2 year plus duration for a 190 CPL/IR hour flight training program?
When read within the context of the previous 1,049 blogs and a picture foms as to where the stench of impropriety and corruption comes from.
The only other major airline in the Philippines, PAL/Air Phil Express, have their A320 simulator up and running as of late last year as well so without any opportunity to sign a contract with a serious A320 operator in the country, how do fill 5-6,000 hours of sim time per year. How do you service the USD$7 million dolloar loan Alpha Aviation have now signed up to with the Maybank? Do you commit to a massive loan on ad-hoc Type Ratings that is notoriously cyclic?
Heres the clue, the AAG Regional Director, P Singh from Prescient Systems is also the CAE agent who effectively sold the simulator to the business that he is a Director of, and pocketed the commission. Due process, conflict of interest or business as usual.
AAG have just celebrated signing up their 30th CPLIR cadet and only have, on average, 2 Cessna 152's and 1 old C172 available for training use. How do you explain to cadets the 2 year plus duration for a 190 CPL/IR hour flight training program?
When read within the context of the previous 1,049 blogs and a picture foms as to where the stench of impropriety and corruption comes from.
