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Clark Institute of Aviation

Old 25th Jan 2011, 03:07
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xxfl350xx

pardon my ignorance..
Whats the difference between the 50% sponsored and nonsponsored? Are you refering to those not sponsored by cebu pac? Because its either the cebu pac sponsored, non cebu pac sponsored. Please enlighten me. OR maybe the tons of information here in the forum has made everything mixed up?

Secondly, as a noncebu pac sponsored cadet, i didnt know if there was an airline who will accept me until about 1-2 months after my base training. I was already planning to go to the general aviation but i decided otherwise because I knew that CA was doing something.

While there were alot of foreign management people who wasnt doing anything but sh!t, the last management who handled us wasnt. We knew they were trying to fixed what the previous managements where doing and they were trying to fix what was due for us. It wasnt that easy and it didnt take a day, a week or a month.. it would take 2-3months to have things get going. And that was fast.

Just like in the corporate world (to those who have experienced), that a contract could take a quarter or even a year to have it even approved.

I worked in the corporate environment before and meeting owners of big banks, talking to employed presidents. Its not that easy to engage on something eventhough you already have the blessing of the owner. Much ofcourse an MPL program.

While it is best for clark av to iron out everything even before the school was launched, i guess it was a business decision/strategy. Supposedly Lesser cost for them?

Whether it worked or failed, i just protected my own interest. So when I got to talk to one of the management who handled us, I knew he wasnt talking sh!t by asking questions and probe them. (as compared to the first 2managements i talked to, they were hopeless) It was just hard to make things work because of their initial strategy.

They have to talk to airlines who would absorb mplers.. this wouldnt take a month.
They have to talk to airlines who would accomodate base training.. this either wont take a month of negotiation.
For foreign pilots, they have to have their philippine issued MPL converted to UAE. It took them 2-3months?! and it was processed by ICAO. Would you blame ICAO? Why cant they process it in 2days?

Above that is the MPL program itself, there were standards to be followed, clark av, cebu pac and caap has to play it by ear. Making adjustments and requirements here and there. The other airlines, zest air and airphil had the easier way. They just waited and see. It also took 2-3months for some MPLs to be absorbed in airphil.

The 3years I stayed in Clark Av, the pros and con, the uncertainties, was a much better option that going for general av, in my opinion.

Because it was way easier than what gen av people have gone through. and I respect them for that. I cannot survive fish flying for free and all the things that comes with it. So much respect with them.

So, if there are still MPL in Clark, im sure that they will be absorbed by the local airlines because pilots are such in demand right now and it was the best business proposition.

The question is, are those MPLs still there are at par with the airline minimum requirements? If yes, im sure they will be absorbed by a local airline.

For my point of view, these were the options back then.
1. PALav: 2years as a cadet, 2nd officer for atleast 3years? (total 5years)
2. Genav: Only 1% would be able to make to an airline.. plus the hazards? (I dont have the average # of years a gen av pilot makes it to airline jet flying.. but i guess you get the point)
3. Clarkav: as per my experience, 3years of uncertainty then FO on an A320? and by next year i would have reached 1500 hours.. Would there be any difference between a CPL and MPL? (well, yeah, depends on my attitude on learning).

You tell me.

I think, in my honest opinion, i made the right choice.

Last edited by Bagoongathipon; 25th Jan 2011 at 03:39.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 17:50
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ok

Bagoongathipon

I have no idea if its your ignorance or if your on something half the time your reading and posting here. And to be quite frank I really dont care.

Read the post again with a clear mind and you might actually understand that I am very happy with the MPL program and the cadets that have concluded and are now flying. That whether some had 100% or 50% sponsorship from Cebu Pac or Clark Av sponsorship (what you refer to as a noncebu pac sponsored cadet) is irrelevant at this point.
Im sure also that with your years and years of corporate experience, dealings with banks and so forth, you are a very knowledgeable and wise person in regards to businesses.. But again its irrelevant to the point.

What is relevant to this thread is positively helping and assisting all the CA pilots in their future endeavors. I am honestly impressed at their performance and thats why I decided to post on this thread.They have proven beyond a doubt that the MPL is a worthy licence to hold. And with all that I know about CA, I know that whether one was aligned or not, it was not an easy road for any cadet at the time to conclude their studies. I am also aware that their are a handful of students who have concluded but are not aligned as of yet. I do share the same concern in knowing what will happen and outcome of those MPL pilots.
I pretty much doubt that anyone will be able to answer that here right now, but we can at least, for now express our concern and best wishes to those still waiting.
And for those MPl'ers flying keep up the good work and dedication. Our industry is not an easy one, but it is a rewarding experience to be in it right.
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Old 26th Jan 2011, 00:06
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i think some guys are too defensive. my bet is that all local MPLers will be absorbed eventually (in the next 12 months max hopefully) by local carriers. the problem is on the non-locals who sponsored themselves through CA. what is CA doing for them?
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Old 26th Jan 2011, 00:15
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@bagoongathipon
also in the interest of fairness i doubt it very much if the last management you were dealing with performed a miracle in actually convincing Zestair to take MPLers.

my experience in things like this tells me that CA's past management in most likelihood have been talking to Zestair about it too. it was not actually a matter of CA management being more persuasive and stuff this time, but rather zestair finally willing to take a gamble on MPLers due to spike in competition for FOs. it was the market that dictated Zestair consider MPL.

that's a huge difference right there, fanboy.
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 08:39
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@xxfl350xx
sorry, i was addressing only the first two paragraphs to you. The succeeding paragraphs are just an exposition of the experiences i had during my stay in clark and how i saw things. It was not a reply to your post.

@chairwrecker..

You are right that about currently its the market that dictated on whats happening right now.

What im really saying is the difference of how we were treated and how things were planned by the different managements. On a cadet's perspective.
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 06:57
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Is Mr. Peter Q still there or has he retired now ?? Thanks
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Old 31st Jan 2011, 17:31
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Updates from CA/AAA/Air Arabia

Just got out from a meeting in Alpha Aviation Academy, it included the GM, HOT & Air Arabia's Training Manager...and other AAA staff.

As for the time being, The 3 CA MPL cadets were released from line training & are now Full FOs of Air Arabia, while the other 4 are still under the SO position (for the Line Training). MPL cadets must do (initially) 80 sectors with Air Arabia before they get released to FO position (depending on Availability of Slots AND performance)...might be reduced (from 80 sectors) as soon as MPL becomes more popular & Air Arabia becomes 100% confident of the "product".

More on that in http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/42...academy-3.html

as this is a CA thread
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Old 1st Feb 2011, 22:24
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i've flown with quite a number of mpls and some are ok.
most dont know squat about basic flying SIDs,interception,LOP, etc.......
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Old 2nd Feb 2011, 13:56
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@ nandyg1

Hi Nandyg1, try me...I mean Try us now looooots of stuff has been changed...trust me
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 00:22
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@malirm
you're kidding right? i know what you're trying to say, but believe me, a lot of guys will be turned off instead by your "offer" of a "trial."
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 07:19
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malirm
"Hi Nandyg1, try me...I mean Try us now looooots of stuff has been changed...trust me "

What has changed?
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 09:43
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Thunderbolt49 & chairwrecker

Well, where to start...lets start from the Offer/Trial point:

Lets say the MPL was in a position where its carrier must peg airlines & ask them for a trial...but after doing it right this time...since The MPL Academy has a Partner Airline (As 99% of us have right NOW [This is one of the CHANGES that happened]) I wouldn't really Piss or Turn Off some guys...I will just go & fly sorry...I take it back

Things that Changed:

Alots of changes on the Core flying phase, more instrument & Solo Cross-Country flights + other teaching techniques...CBT, Sims Sessions...we treat the Cessna like an A320...we have SOPs, Flows...etc. !

MCC, more realistic/serious stuff occuring...more focussing on how to fly a Jet & its instruments...you know what I mean...even if you had 1000 hours on Gen Av aircrafts...you go to a glass cockpit & you'll say WTF for FMS/PFD/ND?AP/FD & so on...in addition to the Manual Handling of the Jet...I've seen some CPL Gen Av pilots doing the Jet flying...they're at entry level still (No offense)...all of us would start like that = most of us will reach a certain Equal level at MCC/Jet transition...

Then 110 hours on the A320 Sim + 12 or TOs & Landings! + Line Training

Where else you want me to point changes...if you want to turn off the MPL, please make sure to turn off the Air Force guys, who had been trained the same way as MPL guys are training right now...MPL is the CIVIL version of the Airforce training (including MCC)...would I be ready on my 245th hour for the A320 Ops...I'd say YES...Its not only me in the Cockpit, its a Multi-Crew environment...would I be ready for a Pilot incapacitation situation...why not...I've done in the MCC & will do it several times on the A320 sim soon

Last edited by malirm; 3rd Feb 2011 at 09:54.
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 11:45
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will you guys be doing 12 T/O's and landing on AA revenue flights.
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 14:07
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@ euindkan

Until this moment, the 12 TAGs won't be on revenue flights...don't think would happen on a revenue flight anytime...AA & AAG are talking with the UAE GCAA to reduce it to 6 TAGs, yet I don't know...there might be some kind of Out sourcing...renting an A320 for 3 days to finish us with AA training Captains...by March we would know the results of the talks with the GCAA...A320 for TAGs...don't know if you need a General Declaration Form !
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 00:13
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@malirm
your excited posts are well and good. appreciate the time and effort that went into that.

what i'm trying to say is that we're talking abt passenger lives here. a 'trial' seems awefully naive.
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 01:19
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@malirm
Relax there cowboy! If you study enough and train yourself hard enough by yourself, you could excel on those procedures and flying skills.

But based on my experience, those things are easy. Whats hard is the human factors side of flying. Such as:
1. How well you adapt to the standard you know against the overall situation. (Situational awareness)
2. How well you can communicate with different captains of different attitudes when they deviate from standards & parameters.
3. How well you can adapt when everything goes nonstandard.
4. How can you avoid mistakes and errors especially when you get tired (ie 6leg flights with block time of 7:50hrs)
5. How can you cope under pressure on very quick turn arounds
etc etc.

You wont learn this on the sim, trust me. So, just relax, enjoy your training and make most out of it because when you go into the airline, what you learned is just 10% of what aviation is all about.

This is what we dont see on gen av pilots / airforce pilots / tenured airline pilots. That eventhough some still get confused on the glass cockpits, jet handling, fms, etc, they know how to handle the situation quite well.

Ive been flying with newly type rated captains who came from different equipments.. while some dont know the procedure from "interception from above," or get confused on the usage of the FCU,MCDU,managed and selected, they just revert to manual flying to get back on track.

I guess thats the big difference.

Its really a humbling experience seeing these especially for us MPL whom we try to prove our worth in the airline industry.

Last edited by Bagoongathipon; 4th Feb 2011 at 01:32.
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 01:39
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I remembered that I had this very tiring flight we were on our 5th leg and I had a captain whom I just flown with for the first time.

We were really tired and exhausted and during our holding overhead KLO, we ran into a CB and the autopilot disengaged. It was apparent that we were tired because we didnt reacted asap. But after 2-3seconds, I noticed that my captain wasnt still taking over.

Knowing that I was more aware at that moment, Should I say "I have controls!" as per standard?

Well, what I said was "You have controls!!" Then he immediately went back to the situational awareness and commanded for the connection of the AP.

While this is nonstandard, this is to prevent conflict or test his ego or whatever.

This might be debateable, but at that point up there, I know i did the right thing.
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Old 9th Feb 2011, 03:50
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Well, what I said was "You have controls!!" Then he immediately went back to the situational awareness and commanded for the connection of the AP.
While this is nonstandard, this is to prevent conflict or test his ego or whatever.
I'd expect red ECAM "AP OFF" plus the cavalry charge aural warning. In this case the SOP is to read the ECAM to alert the PF.

Nevertheless that was quick thinking (and diplomatic) on your part.

"Bagoongathipon" .. interesting call sign ... in a few years you'll be "Caviar&Lobster"
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 00:59
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Time for a refresher in this topic.

It was going so well when, suddenly, it went silent. Was it because the MPLrs are very busy applying for positions in the various new operators from Clark (or the Philippines)?

After all, the MPL is a legal license in there and even the non-sponsored guys should have a chance.

How many did?

Come on, lets give them all an opportunity to prove their worth!!!

Is Clark Aviation selling their product?
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Old 18th Mar 2011, 12:51
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Arabian Aerospace - Air Arabia signs MPL training contract with JATS

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