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Clark Institute of Aviation

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Clark Institute of Aviation

Old 21st Jul 2008, 17:34
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salamat poh

thank you sir Deratedthrust.. thank you for being optimistic and positive about MPL.. i belive its a good course and that CA will bring out fine pilots for 5J. hope to see you there and be on your right side...
and dont mind 9ball... hes just a wanna be pilot...
happy flying
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Old 21st Jul 2008, 22:38
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Most Dangerous Bracket

I read an article years ago where an analysis was made of pilot experience vs. accidents and one of the highest oocurence came with pilots in the 70 to 200 hrs range. Seems to be that bracket when one becomes cocky or complacent.....how it coincides with the fresh MPL grad - just hope it's purely a coincidence.
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 05:51
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9ball,
You mean none of the Philippines FTOs provide standard training?
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Old 24th Jul 2008, 09:52
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"Deratedthrust,

If you were on the left seat and you had a choice of flying with a 200 or even 250 hour CPL/IR/Multiengine rated guy typerated in the A320 or with 70 hour MPL cadet with all single engine time in his/her logbook typerated as well, whom with you rather fly with?

It all boils down to the level of experience. Why? Because no airline will risk the lives of the passengers....well atleast I hope 5J does not."


MY TAKE:

200hours
of initial training and what is commonly known as "Naguubos oras/kinukumpleto nalang oras" (Dont say that no pilots who did it the traditional way has said this before.. this is their mentality, naguubos oras nalang para makuha yung requirements sa ATO, right?)

20hours of IR

Vs

50hrs of VFR (Actual flying; with every single hour has a sortie)
20hrs of IR (Actual flying; with every single hour has a lesson/sortie)
40hrs of Multicrew Coordination Phase in IMC (simulator)
30hrs of "Introduction to Jet" using level C A320 sim (IMC)
60hrs of Level D simulator (IMC)
total of 200hours of actual, guided training
total of 70hours actual flying a single engine
total of 150hours of simulator flying IMC

We can never say "nagkukumpleto nalang oras" because every hour has a different lesson/sortie, PLUS the fact that 150hours of with are IMC.

Indeed there is a lack of Actual flying.. but
my analogy is..

In an F1 racing, who would you actually choose to win?
A person who has 20years of ACTUAL experience of driving a toyota camry in an F1 circuit, then would drive an F1
--------------------------------OR------------------------
a person who has 200hours of simulated experience of driving an F1 in an F1 circuit?

Ofcourse, i admit that proof can only be seen after so many years.

My point is, dont judge something as if you have already thought about everything. Look at the positive side. It might be a better approach to aviation.

Last edited by Bagoongathipon; 24th Jul 2008 at 10:48. Reason: 9ball
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Old 24th Jul 2008, 10:20
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I have been a member of pprune for a long time...but i just chose to be a lurker in this thread...though i have been a cadet at CA for quite a while now!

Lot of things have gone wrong here at CA...but i truly believe now that things are begining to move in the right direction.

Batch A is in their MCC phase now. This is where the real training (and fun) begins.
I just cannot wait for the first 8 cadets to progress soon..coz that is the only way CA can prove to the world that they really are here for the long run. I, like a lot of my fellow cadets have put in my life savings here.

In a lot of places it takes along time before one can sit on the coveted right seat of an Airbus A320. Instead of 1 year if it is going to take nearly 2 am i complaining? Yes and NO. Yes coz it has upset my financial status and i have a family to provide back at home.
NO coz whatever it is ...it is well worth the wait to become an airline pilot.

I have been following MPL from mid 2006. (i have friends in the airline industry who asked me to keep a look out for ICAO's new airline oriented pilot training idea.) I truly believe that MPL is the way forward for an airline training programme. 5J should be complimented for showing interest and now faith in the new system.

If anything bad has happened it is not a failure of MPL but failure to implement it properly by the school

I can see certain members here are very suspect about MPL when it compares to 200hr CPL + IR traditional methods of training. Every one is entitled to have his or her own opinions.

Just want to give some info abt the MPL:

What has to be understood is that MPL is not just a 70 hr single engine + A320 type rating programme!!!! There is 60 hrs of MCC (on the AlSIM 200MCC) followed by A320 ground school, followed by 48 hrs of initial SIM training on the fixed base trainer, followed by 60 hrs on the Level D full motion A320 SIM. MPL is finally awarded only on completion of 12 T/o ldgs on the real a/c. (i have not gone into the fine details of the actual training btw)

The MCC phase is being conduted in the ALSIM configured for the Citation CJ2. You just have to ask the guys how tough it already is in that phase!

Personally when i flew the ALSIM configured for the C172...i was flying all over the place Ask any of the cadets they will vouch that flying the real thing is easier than flying the ALSIM! We even had fun when one of our FIs made all of my bathmates do a single pattern with some insane crosswind. Final tally was 7 alive and 9 dead . (i barely landed safe ) It really is a challenge. During my core flying i have landed at r/w 02 omni in heavy cross winds of 100/12kts...but the ALSIM was way tougher.

Compared to a normal type rating programme, MPL has emphasis on more SIM hrs on the A320..and emphasis on TEM and emergency procedures.

At the end of the day we will be greenhorns like anyother in the industry...but i believe that with good training and guidance from the Captains, we MPL graduates can prove that the new system also works!

PS: i see a lot of images /news in this thread unrelated to CA...infact sometimes it is entertaining..sometimes annoying! Just to clarify regarding India...Not everyone is from Bombay. Infact the money lenders you see on the streets here (5/6) are not from bombay but belong to a certain tribe/caste in North India who have been doing only that for ages! They are known to o that in India as well! Everyone hates them
Personally i come from a place that has a flying time of more than 3 hrs from bombay! (all over land) well my batchmates call me something else
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Old 24th Jul 2008, 16:15
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fernandes tv, pity you don't post on here more often, that was one of the most sensible posts I have read on this thread for a while!
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Old 25th Jul 2008, 04:01
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In an F1 racing, who would you actually choose to win?
A person who has 20years of ACTUAL experience of driving a toyota camry in an F1 circuit, then would drive an F1
--------------------------------OR------------------------
a person who has 200hours of simulated experience of driving an F1 in an F1 circuit?



"Simulators are good to teach system operations, but real flying is needed to learn airmanship, the very basis of safety," said Philip von Schoppenthau, secretary-general of the Brussels-based European Cockpit Association, a pilots' union.
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Old 25th Jul 2008, 04:47
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fernandeztv

one of the most reasonable posts I've seen so far.
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Old 26th Jul 2008, 04:43
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fernandeztv

thank you for a very sensible and well writin comment.
happy flying
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Old 26th Jul 2008, 06:19
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alright. very good post.
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Old 26th Jul 2008, 11:37
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Firstly..Thank you fellow pprune members for your support and kind comments! I think i will just start becoming a bit more active here

Secondly..as of yesterday evening, The student affairs officer has put up a summary/future action plan on behalf of the GM on the flt ops notice board. (It is more of a summary of the meeting that the GM had with each batch)

A detailed time line has been posted as to when each group of 8 students will graduate. I sincerely hope CA will be able to meet the time line!

Also as of today, the new Head of Training has reached Clark.

Will get back with any new developments as and when they unfold!
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Old 27th Jul 2008, 10:05
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I dont have any "inside" information! I am just repeating what has been put up in detail on the flt ops notice board! If anyone is a cadet at CA he/she would be aware of what i am saying . (I know that most of the cadets may not have seen this as they are away due to the weekend while the notice was put up late Friday afternoon).

Again as i had mentioned earlier, we have been divided into batches of 8 (it does not matter if you are course 3, 4 or 5 etc..what matters now is if you are batch A, B, C etc...)

Two time lines have been posted.

Initially with the available capacity in the ALSIM and the Cebu 320 SIM, 8 cadets will graduate per month starting oct/nov 2008. A time line has been posted regarding when each batch of 8 will graduate.

Another time line has been posted assuming we get another level D A320 SIM, and additional C172s at a certain point in time in future. If and when this happens, then 16 will be able to graduate in one month.

Hope this clarifies your question. As i said, it only can be credible once we start seeing things moving forward here at base (and achieving the internal milestones). Till then we as cadets continue to keep the faith...and hope for the best...

We have waited so long with patience...atleast now the new mgmt is trying to rectify things instead of giving us stories! Lets give them a chance. If things go as planned, we have got nothing to lose and everything to gain now

Cheers everyone...
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Old 27th Jul 2008, 13:58
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my fingers are crossed (i hope i can still uncross them)

wait and see... wait and see... but at least this time - it looks and feels more realistic! I still have my high hopes for CA. I hope i'll get the value of the money i paid for

Last edited by accio; 28th Jul 2008 at 11:13.
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Old 28th Jul 2008, 02:00
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@fernandeztv

looking at the sortie board and if we're to follow the new courses (by 8's), you ought to be happy if you're from the first batches of 8 and done with the 70 hours of core flying plus IFR... that way, your training moves forward and you're a few steps closer to the A320 sim. great news indeed.



but what about us with barely 25 hours of flying, still waiting on fully compliant for IFR C172's (we know that CA's been working on 2 C172's already parked at RPLC main and no one after batch 4 will use OMNI's planes), waiting for the sky to clear everyday, and expecting MW's ground school when we come back from a break that we're not even sure when it starts?



given the rainy season, is 50 hours of flying (including IFR) possible in less than 2 months for 8 students using 4 Alpha Trainers (+ 2 C172's) with 5 (or 8) instructors? if so, the plan is fool-proof and a month-off per 8 cadets is justifiable for everyone else waiting to advance. it's a bit disappointing that batches 5, 6, & 7 are pretty much even with flying time, now that a bulk of 6 and everyone in 7 ran into insurance issues and need to fly 25 hours dual before flying solo.
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Old 28th Jul 2008, 12:58
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paolylo...The time allocated for each batch of 8 for core flying (including IF training) is 3 months. My calculation now is that most of the current batch 5 students will be able to finish their VFR sorties in 2 months...weather permitting ofcourse!

Personally for me April was my most productive month when i was able to fly 18 sorties and i just kept a couple of long X country sorties pending so that i get to fly in the months of May and June! So if you have done your solo and weather permitting all you need is just a month and a half to fly sortie 11 to 32 and sortie 44. Its raining almost daily now...but then again here in the RP it is the typhoon season now!

4 a/cs and 5 instructors and 16 students i think you can fly all VFR sorties in 2 months. At any given point of time only 8 students will be flying IFR for that month so 2 a/cs will suffice for that i guess (22 hrs (min) for 16 sorties including night flying. ie 176 hrs for 8 students or 29 days assuming only 1 a/c is available and it flies only 6 hrs a day! SO u see thats why I am optimistic as that the figures look ok compared to what previously was being dished to us like "ah dont worry we will finish you off in 2 months" etc...without any infrastructure!))

The situation with course 3 & 4 in OMNI was that usually the schedule book gets filled by OMNI students at the beginning of every month and we just get the odd hrs like 6AM to 8AM and some Sundays. Hence some of the guys who were not able to fly in April got delayed heavily Esp those who still needed x country sorties and needed atleast 3 to 6 hrs blocks of sked time.

Ground school start dates for each batch (all batches!)can be got by the colour coding on the chart put up in grnd school notice board.

Reg course 6 and 7 ...ok so sortie 10, 11 and 12 cannot be performed, but then you can still proceed with sorties 13, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19 which are mainly exercises reg PFL. Precautionary ldg, steep turns, x wind ldgs, short field ldgs, gen handling revision (which you log as PICUS coz the instructor is grading you all the time during that sortie)...so easily the student can approach 25 hrs by flying all the dual sorties! (this is just my opinion!!! I dont know what the mgmt has in plan for them! )

Cheers...
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Old 28th Jul 2008, 19:22
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if you can fly the basic PATTERN "C" then .....ok
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Old 29th Jul 2008, 07:41
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95

another 2 pinoys hurt? which ones ..please elaborate
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Old 29th Jul 2008, 09:13
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RT Redundant in favor of Bomabays

Today MT and the HRD made Rhoda Taja the longest serving employee in Clark Aviation redundant to keep costs down yet keep employing more FOREIGNERS

Yet another Bombay arrived in CLARK, this time employed by Clark to teach you Filipino cadets how to fly oh blimy blimy, so now you are paying for Bombays to cheat you and now teach you , double header

Worse they did not even help her leave the premises just kicked her out, who will be next, maybe the sim guy's who knows as long IR keeps her position and the Turbans need to keep taking the money everyday

I am sure CDC will be happy to here the Filipinos are been made redundant and Clark is employing Foreigners even Bombays at P250,000 plus per month
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Old 29th Jul 2008, 09:33
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Cessna95

What do you get if you mix Bombay Curry and East German Bratwurst together?

Dinner on me for the correct answer.
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Old 29th Jul 2008, 16:12
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cessna95, you sound like a RACIST if I ever heard one!

What's your problem? Why do you keep using racist terms like "Bombay" and "TURBAN" to designate certain people?

The company is not Filipino majority owned. They have the right to put whoever they want to work there! It's a business not a goverment agency or a charity. What's it to you anyway?

The important thing is that the cadets graduate ASAP so they can go on with the rest of their lives. That's what matters.

I'm sorry for Rhoda and the other employees. But guess what cessna95, when you grow up you will find out that no one has a job for life. You will never be given a contract guaranteeing you a job for life. You don't want to be fired - become the boss.

What's disturbing is your racial/nationalistic abuse. Specially from someone who comes from a country where 10% of the population is working abroad. What if all the other countries where hardworking honest Filipinos are employed thought the same way as you and wanted all the foreigners out...What if all the airlines abroad that employ Filipino pilots suddenly sent them away / slurred them just because they are FOREIGNERS. Stop and think! Treat the foreigners in your country with the same respect and consideration as would like your fellow countrymen abroad to be treated.


Your racial slur disgusts me. You're not a pilot. You're a disgrace. Educate your mind.
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