Philippine Safety Standards?
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Philippine Safety Standards?
I've recently returned from a holiday in the Philippines and I have to admit I found the standards of flight safety both on the ground and in the air a serious concern.
a. Departing MNL domestic mobile phones were not x-rayed but rather passed around the metal detector in plastic trays
b. Yak xx, off the side of the runway at Caticlan & propped up with car tyres (the staff told me they'd been off the runway twice this year)
c. Approaching MNL in a Do328 a plastic kite passed 3-4 feet beneath our wing (I estimate we were at 2500ft and just slightly left of the extended centreline of Rwy13). On landing I spoke with the crew & suggested they let ATC know & submit a safety report. (I also told them I fly 744s for an Airline that flies into MNL & therefore had both a personal & professional interest in notifying the authorities ).
They said they had not seen the kite at all & brushed the whole thing aside, simply commenting that kites are normal for the Philippines.
d. Approaching Caticlan in a Dash7 at approx 5-6000ft a 3rd pilot entered the cockpit. I was stunned to see the whole windscreen covered in maps/charts! There was no way the crew could see outside.
Finally passing through Hong Kong, an ATC friend detailed a recent incident where at A319 from a Philippine based airline turned sharply left after take off from Rwy25L. (the hills are less than 2km left of the runway).
The "rumour" is that the crew had a late runway change (from 07R) and failed to update the Departure in the MCDU. When the AP was engaged the A319 tried to do a 180deg turn.
Folks...did I just have a bad run of luck or is this just par for the course in your lovely country?
a. Departing MNL domestic mobile phones were not x-rayed but rather passed around the metal detector in plastic trays
b. Yak xx, off the side of the runway at Caticlan & propped up with car tyres (the staff told me they'd been off the runway twice this year)
c. Approaching MNL in a Do328 a plastic kite passed 3-4 feet beneath our wing (I estimate we were at 2500ft and just slightly left of the extended centreline of Rwy13). On landing I spoke with the crew & suggested they let ATC know & submit a safety report. (I also told them I fly 744s for an Airline that flies into MNL & therefore had both a personal & professional interest in notifying the authorities ).
They said they had not seen the kite at all & brushed the whole thing aside, simply commenting that kites are normal for the Philippines.
d. Approaching Caticlan in a Dash7 at approx 5-6000ft a 3rd pilot entered the cockpit. I was stunned to see the whole windscreen covered in maps/charts! There was no way the crew could see outside.
Finally passing through Hong Kong, an ATC friend detailed a recent incident where at A319 from a Philippine based airline turned sharply left after take off from Rwy25L. (the hills are less than 2km left of the runway).
The "rumour" is that the crew had a late runway change (from 07R) and failed to update the Departure in the MCDU. When the AP was engaged the A319 tried to do a 180deg turn.
Folks...did I just have a bad run of luck or is this just par for the course in your lovely country?
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Im sorry to hear that you've run through such scary experiences while flying around RP, and I can surely Imagine how scary it was to be a Pilot and unable to do something to correct it when flying as a PAX.
Maps , Newspapers on the windshield/windows are common. Kites are common too, but only sensible pilots finds time to report those occurrences.
About the 319 departing HKG? How recent was it? coz many years back, about the start of yr 2000, there was a similar incident on a 737-300 taking off on the correctly assigned runway but has its CDU set-up for the opposite end. Apparently, there was a last minute changed on the rwy in use and it happened during the taxi.(crew missed doing the necessary RE-set-up- Both Pilots are Wide body Captains at present and still with PAL).
- it boils down again to CRM
- lack of proper education pertinent to this industry( company trying to save money by providing obsolete training tools which are no longer applicable at present time.)
- too steep position gradient in the cockpit
- some are so confident knowing that its their Home base or frequently flown destination(they believed by experienced that there's no mountain on that side...ooops)
- with the Massive exodus of Senior and more experience pilots, airline companies lowered their standards to accomodate immediate upgrades on those vacant equipments.
BUT with all this, i assure you "most" of those Pilots are competent to fly those airplanes. Its more on the companies fault why their Pilots tend to do those practices.
Maps , Newspapers on the windshield/windows are common. Kites are common too, but only sensible pilots finds time to report those occurrences.
About the 319 departing HKG? How recent was it? coz many years back, about the start of yr 2000, there was a similar incident on a 737-300 taking off on the correctly assigned runway but has its CDU set-up for the opposite end. Apparently, there was a last minute changed on the rwy in use and it happened during the taxi.(crew missed doing the necessary RE-set-up- Both Pilots are Wide body Captains at present and still with PAL).
- it boils down again to CRM
- lack of proper education pertinent to this industry( company trying to save money by providing obsolete training tools which are no longer applicable at present time.)
- too steep position gradient in the cockpit
- some are so confident knowing that its their Home base or frequently flown destination(they believed by experienced that there's no mountain on that side...ooops)
- with the Massive exodus of Senior and more experience pilots, airline companies lowered their standards to accomodate immediate upgrades on those vacant equipments.
BUT with all this, i assure you "most" of those Pilots are competent to fly those airplanes. Its more on the companies fault why their Pilots tend to do those practices.
Last edited by Cessna1052; 17th Dec 2006 at 19:25.
, too good to have one other than my wife.
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For the safety of all airlines (foreign & domestic) I have reported the details of the kites flying within the circling/circuit area.
Your other non-sensicle comments are both shallow, tragic & 'plane stupid'
You owe me an apology .... for quite apparently I hold Filipina ladies in much higher regard than you do.
My wife and I very much enjoyed the diving & kitesurfing in Boracay - thank you.
Your nasty little personality disorder needs professional help.
Your other non-sensicle comments are both shallow, tragic & 'plane stupid'
You owe me an apology .... for quite apparently I hold Filipina ladies in much higher regard than you do.
My wife and I very much enjoyed the diving & kitesurfing in Boracay - thank you.
Your nasty little personality disorder needs professional help.
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it is good to know that people like you take concern of standards of flight safety even when you are just visiting our lovely country, while others who fly this part of the world take it so lightly. i fly for a domestic/regional carrier here in the phils and my company gives utmost attention to safety issues.
heres hoping your " series of unfortunate events" doesnt hinder you from visiting our lovely country again!
try visiting Bohol next time! we fly there twice a day!
heres hoping your " series of unfortunate events" doesnt hinder you from visiting our lovely country again!
try visiting Bohol next time! we fly there twice a day!
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To planestupid- your remarks about filipina women are demeaning , and is in completely bad taste. That remark puts us filipinos in a bad light. Please put some sense into your head and give our country some respect.ERASE OR EDIT YOUR QUOTE NOW.
To small cheese- I've saved your comment about the Dash-7 in caticlan and forwarded it to the Airline involved, but to lessen your worries, caticlan has a "one-way" airway and there are absolutely no chance of a "pop-up" on the route. But still it's no excuse to put maps as a windshield cover i agree. About the kite issue, normally if a pilot sees one on final approach he/she tells the tower and they send someone immediately to solve the problem.
To small cheese- I've saved your comment about the Dash-7 in caticlan and forwarded it to the Airline involved, but to lessen your worries, caticlan has a "one-way" airway and there are absolutely no chance of a "pop-up" on the route. But still it's no excuse to put maps as a windshield cover i agree. About the kite issue, normally if a pilot sees one on final approach he/she tells the tower and they send someone immediately to solve the problem.
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planestupid,
What the hell is the matter with you man ???!!!! The fella (petitfromage) is just giving a fair and unbiased observation of the Philippine safety standards.
From where I sit he has a legitimate concern and good on him to report it to those people who are suppose to keep our skies safe. I do hope they take action. A disabled aircraft on the side of the runway and a kite flying in the circuit area is totally unacceptable in any standards.
And your comments about our women is totally way out of line. We all get out of line sometimes with our comments and you had to top it with this.
You better get your head screwed on right before shooting off your mouth.
D6
What the hell is the matter with you man ???!!!! The fella (petitfromage) is just giving a fair and unbiased observation of the Philippine safety standards.
From where I sit he has a legitimate concern and good on him to report it to those people who are suppose to keep our skies safe. I do hope they take action. A disabled aircraft on the side of the runway and a kite flying in the circuit area is totally unacceptable in any standards.
And your comments about our women is totally way out of line. We all get out of line sometimes with our comments and you had to top it with this.
You better get your head screwed on right before shooting off your mouth.
D6
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Planestupid,
Looks like you disgust your own race. Nevertheless, you should not have posted those comments. It only shows how shallow and narrow minded you are. I am a proud Filipino, although our race have shortcomings, never did I talk like that about my countrymen. Not all foreigners who visit our country have the reason that you think. Maybe you got a real good banging up your a$$ to make you think like that about foreigners and our contrymen. Cessna is a good man, maybe the saying "thinkers, doers" very much apply to you.
Petitfromage,
Sad to say, all your observations are true. I have personally seen kites on short final in Manila. Being an aviator yourself, I think that you should file a complaint at the airline or at the ATO (Air Transportaion Office - local counterpart of CAA). This should make a safer environment in the Philippines. I hope you will visit our country again, next time try Palawan.
Kontra
Looks like you disgust your own race. Nevertheless, you should not have posted those comments. It only shows how shallow and narrow minded you are. I am a proud Filipino, although our race have shortcomings, never did I talk like that about my countrymen. Not all foreigners who visit our country have the reason that you think. Maybe you got a real good banging up your a$$ to make you think like that about foreigners and our contrymen. Cessna is a good man, maybe the saying "thinkers, doers" very much apply to you.
Petitfromage,
Sad to say, all your observations are true. I have personally seen kites on short final in Manila. Being an aviator yourself, I think that you should file a complaint at the airline or at the ATO (Air Transportaion Office - local counterpart of CAA). This should make a safer environment in the Philippines. I hope you will visit our country again, next time try Palawan.
Kontra
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Mahubay to all My Pares and Mares and very merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year to you all.
I have flown to the Phillipines and visited many times and had the pleasure to work with many professionals from this lovely country.
Firstly I think that the hospitality shown to visitors is tremendous and I have always been made to feel welcome.
Secondly the engineers and pilots I have worked with are possibily the hardest working people I have ever had the pleasure to meet. Additionally they rarely complain and put up with a hell of a lot. To top it all the engineers really know their stuff and will always try their best to rectify a defect ASAP.
I reckon it is the culture created by greedy management that leads to engineers and pilots to become dissillusioned, sad, slipshod, angry and ambivalent. If management and owners treat their staff like crap, pay crap they will never have world class standards even though they really have hardworking, sincere, talanted world class people.
Happy holidays,
Wooblah.
I have flown to the Phillipines and visited many times and had the pleasure to work with many professionals from this lovely country.
Firstly I think that the hospitality shown to visitors is tremendous and I have always been made to feel welcome.
Secondly the engineers and pilots I have worked with are possibily the hardest working people I have ever had the pleasure to meet. Additionally they rarely complain and put up with a hell of a lot. To top it all the engineers really know their stuff and will always try their best to rectify a defect ASAP.
I reckon it is the culture created by greedy management that leads to engineers and pilots to become dissillusioned, sad, slipshod, angry and ambivalent. If management and owners treat their staff like crap, pay crap they will never have world class standards even though they really have hardworking, sincere, talanted world class people.
Happy holidays,
Wooblah.
