Air Japan (AJX) B767
Frate has a good point. It is also worth looking ahead when considering this job. Yes, at present, there is an opportunity to get a widebody command (albeit on a jurassic machine) within 5 years. After that things pretty much slow down to nothing. Have a look at the salaries of the guys who've been here for 15 years or so. A 10 year Captain, salary, USD14300 per month + USD 1000 pension. The accomodation and international allowances barely cover costs. I don't follow other major salaries that closely but I would not be surprised to see a 15 year FO at one of the US majors or Qantas earning considerably more than this + they are living at home, not flying old, clapped out freighters, pretty much back of the clock all the time, mostly in and out of China working for people of a different culture who often just don't get how we function.
At present Captain salaries top out at 20 years, no increases past that , not that the annual increases are any good, they are very much based on Japanese zero inflation. Total lack of understanding that our home countries may have higher inflation rates than Japan.
Things have been very good in the past and I live in hope these good times will return. It's up to the powers that be to make this happen.
At present Captain salaries top out at 20 years, no increases past that , not that the annual increases are any good, they are very much based on Japanese zero inflation. Total lack of understanding that our home countries may have higher inflation rates than Japan.
Things have been very good in the past and I live in hope these good times will return. It's up to the powers that be to make this happen.
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gtseraf, are you talking base pay?!?!?! you must be comparing your 10 year training Captain salary.....I don't have a payslip near by from my 10 years line Captain salary but it was a lot lot less than $14300. I'm not projected to hit amount that until my 16 or 17 year line Captain salary on my current contract. I thought we worked for the same agency........GERARD.......Mr O'Reilly???? What is going on here?????
And here I was thinking no one was able to get A scale anymore????
Although I flew with an F/O the other day who reckons he saw his Captains payslip (DEC from the AJV days) so maybe 7 year or 8 year pay and it was almost the same as mine?!?!?!
Maybe we do have A, B and C scales here now???? Not sure what agency the Captain works for.
And here I was thinking no one was able to get A scale anymore????
Although I flew with an F/O the other day who reckons he saw his Captains payslip (DEC from the AJV days) so maybe 7 year or 8 year pay and it was almost the same as mine?!?!?!
Maybe we do have A, B and C scales here now???? Not sure what agency the Captain works for.
not an FI salary shown here, it does include some extra "experience" pay on top of the basic salary. It's also ballpark figure.
The numbers I have seen are similar to what you say the base salary is. Not sure if there are different scales around.
The idea here is not to start any infighting amongst the present group, but rather to illustrate the rather poor long term prospects for younger people who may be considering this option versus the legacy carrier.
The numbers I have seen are similar to what you say the base salary is. Not sure if there are different scales around.
The idea here is not to start any infighting amongst the present group, but rather to illustrate the rather poor long term prospects for younger people who may be considering this option versus the legacy carrier.
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No infighting intended but there is definitely an A scale and a B scale. The fact that the A scale doesn't cut it really does not bode well for the B scale (7 or 8 year AJV captain will be B scale, so the captain concerned must have been in longer than that). My payslip also does not reflect $14300!
Edited to add: calling on Gerard is a futile gesture. Chocolate tea pots and their usefulness spring to mind.
Edited to add: calling on Gerard is a futile gesture. Chocolate tea pots and their usefulness spring to mind.
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Not to add fuel to the fire, but there is definitely a different scale for DEC vs. Upgraded vs. early 2000 hires. Either way, the top scalers are still below the industry average, whether compared to other contract jobs or 767 operators worldwide. What AJX management fails to understand is that majority of us have to commute very long distances from our homes for three or so weeks at a time. And, as a couple of guys pointed out, regular line captains are having to play the role of an instructor and babysitter when we fly. Compensate better by being competitive with other contract pilot jobs or at least make the working conditions better. Something. Not too much to ask I think, especially when the contract agencies are making huge profits off our backs. It used to be 100% pax flying for me almost 10 years ago to before the merger, now 10% pax. If I wanted to fly freight (nothing against the original AJV guys), I would have applied to AJV originally...But either way, our schedules still suck.
For those of you who are prospects reading this thread, the "rantings" in the recent posts were actually addressed to the respective contract companies so they can relay the situation to the company by a good majority of the pilots - but fell on deaf ears.
For those of you who are prospects reading this thread, the "rantings" in the recent posts were actually addressed to the respective contract companies so they can relay the situation to the company by a good majority of the pilots - but fell on deaf ears.
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No, we're not saying that. The figures on the websites are accurate. What we are saying is that (a)they're not enough because they haven't risen in decades, so those of us who have been here some time have seen a big drop in our buying power at home and (b)the guys who joined very early on in the life of AJX/AJV are on a higher salary than those figures and so an A & B scale does exist. The figures on the websites are the B scale.
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Ah ok. Thanks fratemate.
It would seem A & B scales are becoming more prevelant throughout the industry these days.
It would seem A & B scales are becoming more prevelant throughout the industry these days.
beancounters can't put a $$ value to experience, in their minds anyone with the bare minimum qualifications and a pulse is good enough. They seem to think experienced people are too expensive and always demand too much. Strange we don't see pimply kids straight out of business school running the shows, oh wait! maybe they are 
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Any truth to the rumour that the 2 night layover in Wuhan has been ditched for a midnight HND-HKG followed the next night (16 hour layover in Honkers) by another midnight HKG-HND????
I see a few Hangzhou ground schools going around, no ground school for Wuhan though??
Or did I miss that email from our scheduling committee?
We still have that committee don't we, I can remember voting for at least two out of the four of them!!!!
How often do we vote for new committee members? I know the two new guys have just started a couple of months ago, but how long do committee members stay on until they are refreshed with two new members??
I see a few Hangzhou ground schools going around, no ground school for Wuhan though??
Or did I miss that email from our scheduling committee?
We still have that committee don't we, I can remember voting for at least two out of the four of them!!!!
How often do we vote for new committee members? I know the two new guys have just started a couple of months ago, but how long do committee members stay on until they are refreshed with two new members??
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I am happy to see that more people are expressing their displeasure with our T&C's. I have been pretty vocal for some time now but never really heard too many others speaking up. Maybe they were complaining in private? We need to make our voices heard. Get everyone riled up!!! Mo' Money, Mo' Money, is the theme.
As far as the schedules go, last month I was there for 27 days. You would think I had a good mix of pax/cargo.
Nope, I had 1 pax trip to HNL and the rest of the month was cargo. What a joy. 
Things need to change in the trip allocation department. There are a couple of destinations that I haven't been to in coming up on a year now. Of course they are pax only and the training likes to use them.
J
As far as the schedules go, last month I was there for 27 days. You would think I had a good mix of pax/cargo.
Nope, I had 1 pax trip to HNL and the rest of the month was cargo. What a joy. Things need to change in the trip allocation department. There are a couple of destinations that I haven't been to in coming up on a year now. Of course they are pax only and the training likes to use them. J
history has shown that the only time things are improved is when many people leave and the number of new hires dries up. The rest is just an irritating background noise.
However, I have been contributing to this background noise.
However, I have been contributing to this background noise.
Last edited by gtseraf; 8th Oct 2016 at 10:44.
Regarding the Sim screening.
I have read the profile and non of it seems overly taxing. Few call outs and powers / attitudes to learn. Just a matter of doing the prep.
The agent I am going with seems to think that elaborate sim prep is required to pass even as a non type rated FO. I have no Boeing experience but 3000hrs in glass cockpit jets. I'm not sure any job is worth spending Thousands of dollars in a sim to show them you can pole a plane.
Is the standard they require in screening that high?
Cheers
I have read the profile and non of it seems overly taxing. Few call outs and powers / attitudes to learn. Just a matter of doing the prep.
The agent I am going with seems to think that elaborate sim prep is required to pass even as a non type rated FO. I have no Boeing experience but 3000hrs in glass cockpit jets. I'm not sure any job is worth spending Thousands of dollars in a sim to show them you can pole a plane.
Is the standard they require in screening that high?
Cheers
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So, sorry for asking, but I've received the terms via an agent and I'm confused. What does a type rated FO take home package look like?
Korean is offering a similar package but with tax paid...so I'm wondering if that's a better package. Would you say the ME3 are still offering an overall better package in terms of salary and not schedule or commuting rosters.?
Korean is offering a similar package but with tax paid...so I'm wondering if that's a better package. Would you say the ME3 are still offering an overall better package in terms of salary and not schedule or commuting rosters.?
in the perfect world, one should not have to spend money on sim prep for a job, I agree.
A couple of things to think about. The 767 is first generation glass, the sim is very much based on that, some have no speed tape, just the old fashioned round ASI. The scan pattern required is different to a modern glass cockpit and this catches a few guys out. Sim prep may help to avoid that one. Plus getting the procedures and calls perfect BEFORE arriving is not a bad idea.
How serious are you about this job? If it's a shot in the dark, then saving money may be an option. If you are very keen and serious on getting this job, you'd be doing yourself no favours by skimping on the prep.
The agency may sound like they are trying to fleece you but I reckon they are just trying to get as many guys through, thus increasing their income.
A couple of things to think about. The 767 is first generation glass, the sim is very much based on that, some have no speed tape, just the old fashioned round ASI. The scan pattern required is different to a modern glass cockpit and this catches a few guys out. Sim prep may help to avoid that one. Plus getting the procedures and calls perfect BEFORE arriving is not a bad idea.
How serious are you about this job? If it's a shot in the dark, then saving money may be an option. If you are very keen and serious on getting this job, you'd be doing yourself no favours by skimping on the prep.
The agency may sound like they are trying to fleece you but I reckon they are just trying to get as many guys through, thus increasing their income.
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"The agent I am going with seems to think that elaborate sim prep is required to pass even as a non type rated FO."
The simple answer is no. Many guys in the past have passed the sim without the sim prep. B767 is still an airplane and flies like one. Gtseraf has a point though; if you've been flying only full glass cockpit, it MIGHT be helpful. But airplane's an airplane. Just familiar yourself with the profile/callouts and the general pitch and power settings and you should do fine. Longreach started this sim prep thing for guys with a lot of cruise time, but no real stick time - and was caught on by others. Either way, we're still getting pilots who you wonder if they're Frank Abagnale wannabes...
The simple answer is no. Many guys in the past have passed the sim without the sim prep. B767 is still an airplane and flies like one. Gtseraf has a point though; if you've been flying only full glass cockpit, it MIGHT be helpful. But airplane's an airplane. Just familiar yourself with the profile/callouts and the general pitch and power settings and you should do fine. Longreach started this sim prep thing for guys with a lot of cruise time, but no real stick time - and was caught on by others. Either way, we're still getting pilots who you wonder if they're Frank Abagnale wannabes...
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"To sim prep or not to sim prep..., that is the question"
I'll add my two cents......, first let me say that I didn't do any sim prep prior to the interview but this wasn't my intention...., I had already found out the cost at the PanAm academy in Miami to go do it...., someone had cancelled the interview and they assigned his slot to me so I had no other choice....., it worked out evidently but I agree with gtseraf on the matter......, if you have a lot of modern time glass flight deck experience as of late, it will definitely be a good thing to do some sim prep ahead of time.
My formative years in this paid hobby of ours was flying very old metal, I'm talking radial engines old...! So to me the scanning of steam gauges wasn't an issue and that is why I pulled it off...., but if you have been flying modern flight decks for most of your career it will be cumbersome and you might tunnel vision into one thing and let something else fall through the cracks....!
So the answer is that if you are used to the style "T" scanning of old...., you should be ok..., if the "speed and altitude tape" is your comfort zone..., then prep like an Alabama redneck...!
I'll add my two cents......, first let me say that I didn't do any sim prep prior to the interview but this wasn't my intention...., I had already found out the cost at the PanAm academy in Miami to go do it...., someone had cancelled the interview and they assigned his slot to me so I had no other choice....., it worked out evidently but I agree with gtseraf on the matter......, if you have a lot of modern time glass flight deck experience as of late, it will definitely be a good thing to do some sim prep ahead of time.
My formative years in this paid hobby of ours was flying very old metal, I'm talking radial engines old...! So to me the scanning of steam gauges wasn't an issue and that is why I pulled it off...., but if you have been flying modern flight decks for most of your career it will be cumbersome and you might tunnel vision into one thing and let something else fall through the cracks....!
So the answer is that if you are used to the style "T" scanning of old...., you should be ok..., if the "speed and altitude tape" is your comfort zone..., then prep like an Alabama redneck...!
Last edited by The Dominican; 12th Oct 2016 at 01:09.
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I believe we have three AKL commuters. I can think of three others who have left. I suppose the answer to your question is, no, there's not many but there's no particular reason for it that I can see. Commute is pretty easy and everything else is as per this thread.
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Hello fellow aviators. First and foremost I like to thank everyone for the very detailed and informative contribution to this thread. Started out from page 1 and am halfway to page 126.
1)Could anyone give me an insight to the current success rate in landing a job as an FO here? I am willing to work hard, follow the rules and adapt to the local culture. I am aware this is a first generation glass cockpit and would need some getting used to coming from speed and altitude tapes.
2)(Touchy question) I am of Chinese descendent, (english is my first language). Would this be an issue in terms of discrimination as going through the first 60 pages of this thread , I understand there aren't many(or none) crew here from south east asia. The purpose of my question is just to understand the culture and will everyone be given a fair shot.
3)There was a part of the thread that mentions about almost every other guy on the upgrade program failing. Is the failure rate still high? Understand it's about 5 years to being offered an upgrade.
Thank you all and have a pleasant day ahead.
Ps: Saw the press release that the A380s will be taking over the HNL runs come 2019... ):
1)Could anyone give me an insight to the current success rate in landing a job as an FO here? I am willing to work hard, follow the rules and adapt to the local culture. I am aware this is a first generation glass cockpit and would need some getting used to coming from speed and altitude tapes.
2)(Touchy question) I am of Chinese descendent, (english is my first language). Would this be an issue in terms of discrimination as going through the first 60 pages of this thread , I understand there aren't many(or none) crew here from south east asia. The purpose of my question is just to understand the culture and will everyone be given a fair shot.
3)There was a part of the thread that mentions about almost every other guy on the upgrade program failing. Is the failure rate still high? Understand it's about 5 years to being offered an upgrade.
Thank you all and have a pleasant day ahead.
Ps: Saw the press release that the A380s will be taking over the HNL runs come 2019... ):
Last edited by lookleftandenvy; 16th Nov 2016 at 09:02.