Air Japan (AJX) B767

[Mr Lover]

Health care insurance

Not because you have (you and/or your family) a residency card or alien card that means you have the National Health Care Insurance coverage... not at all. We have the card but no insurance since the company I work for in Japan doesn't want to pay for it so we have to buy private insurance.

[Esprit6969]

It boils down to what is important to you...to me its all about the money. If you look at their contract after 3 years days off increases to 12. Add your 2 vaca days and its similar to ana. Plus youve been made an instructor with a $3000 bump in pay. They have business class rt tix to your front door as well. That 17k youre going to have to pay taxes on. Skymark pays all your taxes. Im glad it works for you here. As for me I cant wait to get out. Not sure who you think your talking to as I havent even started the capt eval process.

[Esprit6969]

Mr lover im just relaying what my friend whose there tells me. He took his son to the dentist while still in training showed his id submitted the paperwork to sky and only paid something similar to a copay.

[Fratemate]

The recruitment is nowhere near keeping up and we will, I think, be running at a net loss. This could be an okay thing IF they reacted by upping the terms and conditions. On the other hand they could hand some of the flying back to ANA and I'd be willing to bet a couple of Asahis that it won't be passenger flying.

Sorry to burst your bubble Frate but...

We've already lost one PAX destination flight. NRT-BKK = GONE This was given back to ANA mainline due to lack of crew at AJX. We still operate cargo flights to BKK but no more PAX. From what I am hearing one of the HNL flights is next. Standby.

You owe someone a couple of Asahis

Sorry PD, I meant, of course, to write 'freight', not 'passenger' and totally screwed up what I was trying to say I think I'll have to pay out in beer because of my stupidity I hope we don't lose one of the HNLs. I get there little enough, so reducing it by 50% isn't going to help my brief flirtations with reality.

20 is an accurate number of pilots gone in the past year. There are 2 currently at Skymark in training and 3 heading out the door to go there in March.

Esprit, if you're going to insist on espousing the wonders of SM, then at least be accurate so we can all benefit from the information. There is one guy definitely 'heading out the door', there is one guy who hasn't yet made the decision between three options and there is one who hasn't made the decision whether to go to SM or stay at AJX. That is why I wrote 'definites/almost definites'; not because I was sitting on the fence but because they haven't yet decided. You say they're definitely leaving but it will do nothing for your argument if they don't.

I think TD has covered the money side of things. If you're willing to prostitute your whole life to a company in the name of dollars, then good on ya. I would rather have a life and enjoy my time at home, than plough the skies constantly and remain in Japan just to watch my bank balance better off by a couple of grand a month.

Their JCAB checker is not yet in place. I don't doubt he will come but I wouldn't be counting chickens just yet.

A330/A380's coming, upon completion of your first contract an automatic upgrade to instructor ($3000/mo) and an extra 2 days off bringing you inline with AJX

This is perhaps the part of your posting that does you no favours in 'justifying' a move to SM. By all means go because of the tax, direct entry command, ability to sell your soul in the pursuit of $$s but don't delude yourself with crap like this. I have no idea if they've automatically 'instructorised' those on a second contract and will happily believe they have. On the other hand, they're not going to continue this ad infinitum; why would they have all their second tour guys sitting around as instructors, getting paid more but not doing an instructing job? If they're recruitment worked well and everybody stayed, you'd end up with a situation where nobody was joining (because nobody was leaving) and all captains were instructors. It might happen for a bit longer but it is certainly not something to be going there with, thinking it's going to continue. As for the 330/380, you're having a laugh They've got a pile of Japanese, ex-longhaul, widebody drivers. Compare that with the experience level of those from AJX that are leaving to go to SM. Great guys, but a few hundred hours as a an AJX 767 FO for widebody experience isn't going to cut it when SM look at who's going to fly their new toys. By all means keep your fingers crossed and hope it'll work but there's some phrase about going there with your eyes open and suggesting you're going to be an instructor, earning an extra $3000/month and driving an A330/380 around is not realistic.

I'm not 'bigging up' AJX, nor am I justifying my staying. There are plenty of things AJX needs to do to get it right and I would have no hesitation in leaving should something, genuinely, better comes up. However, what we do need is accurate information to help us all make informed choices, not rhetoric based on hearsay and hope.

Edited to add:

PS:

20 is an accurate number of pilots gone in the past year.

An emphatic statement, which may very well be true. However, I still can't get near those numbers so, again, could you PM me the names. Thanks.

[LindbergB767]

Esprit u have it wrong
Been at Skymark myself for 7 years and peoples leaving Air Japan for Skymark need to have some brain cels burned
instructor position at Skymark is $1000 a month not 3000
Yes you can make money but if you sell 10 days Off a month you w ont have a life at ALL
JCAB are still there and just fail a guy who is with the Cie since the 1998
For the last 3 years Sky is supposed to be approved for in house check
The salary and working conditions did not change at Skymark since 2004
The first contract use to be 8500 a month, 10 days OFF and 24 vacation a year
Now it is 8000 a month, 9 days OFF in row and 20 days of vacation
we can not call that an improvement
And the owner change the contract when he likes
we had the choice to be paid in Yen or US, he stop that,
we had taxi to go to work, he stop that
ect ect
Airbus 330 and 380 what a nice carrots
Was told last year by the chief pilot that only Japanese (ex JAL) will fly it
D ont think they will change their minds
Anyway I would go at Air Japan any time before Skymark

[Esprit6969]

Yep ajx is the cats meow..thats why so many have left here. There are 3 for sure in the march class at sky. 2 in training now..i talk to them both regularly. I am just relaying what i was told about the place. I couldmt give a rats arse if you believe it or not. What I do know is that this place sucks to come over as an fo.

[Fratemate]

None of us is saying AJX is the 'cat's meow' and that everything is fine and dandy. What we are saying (or I am) is demonstrate accurate figures, rather than pad your posts with meaningless, inaccurate rhetoric. Throwing your toys out of the pram and having a hissy fit because you don't like it that you're being asked to back-up your statements does little to enhance the message you're trying to get across. I understand you don't like it at AJX and would rather go elsewhere but don't make sweeping statements about a host of people leaving etc to try and justify your thinking unless those statements are true. I know it doesn't suit you that someone who has been with SM for 7 years is challenging your understanding of the situation but, maybe, it might be a good idea to hear what he's saying, rather than trying to twist the data to suit what you want to hear.

Seeing as you're not prepared to let me know the 20 who have left, perhaps you'd PM me the names of those in the March class. As I said before, only one I know is definitely going (I spoke to him a few days ago) and he verified what I have said about the other two.

[Esprit6969]

Great guys, but a few hundred hours as a an AJX 767 FO for widebody experience isn't going to cut it when SM look at who's going to fly their new toys.

Fratemate, this comment shows how ignorant you are and illustrates how you just pulled this out of your arse. I know for a fact that 2 of the guys going have a couple thousand hours (757 I think) as jet PIC. The only reason they were hired as FO's at ANA was because of the 3000 min requirement (created by the likes of Larry and Juan the 1000 hour wonder RJ pilots that struggled through training).

[LindbergB767]

Spirit
you d ont give a rat of what we say, because you have 2 friend on the course and they know better than ME wow
Probably I was not there enough .And me too I still have friends there and they are not on the course. They have been there since the beginning of Skymark and I am still well informed of what s happenning there
Anyway try it and you will see by yourself
By the way more than 20 expats left Skymark in 2011
for sure if you are an FO at ANA and they offer you a left seat yes TAKE it
but you will fly 40% of your time in the right seat anyway because they d ont have enough FO
But no way a captain at Skymark will make more than a Cap at Air Japan
By the way you w ont get 12 days OFF on a second contract you have to buy those days
$1000 pay cut a month for those days.. And the biz class is only if you make more than 80 hours in a month.
And if you d ont take your ticket you w ont received $2000. but only $500

[Esprit6969]

Numbnutz,

Is it possible that things have changed since you were there? Pilots leave all contracts...20 at ANA, 20 at Sky in the past year. All that proves is that for some people its not their cup of tea. AJX isn't mine. Am I not allowed to have an opinion? Who cares what seat you fly from! Hell, put me in the FA jumpseat, as long as I'm getting Captain pay. We do the same thing at AJX. Your point is moot. You are sadly mistaken, a Sky Captain can make more than a AJX Captain. It is virtually impossible to make any overtime at AJX. I don't know of ANY AJX Captain making 20 grand a month AFTER taxes. If one posts here I will suck your manhood. But I will need to see a paystub first.

I know how the 2nd contract works, I have a friend who works for WASINC. You are offered 2 extra days off, but you take a $1000 hit. However, your enticed to re-sign by making you an instructor( Not everyone accepts or is even offered, but if you have half a brain, it happens). $2000 extra, $3000 if you actually instruct. For a net gain of $1000-2000. If your selling your days back...then chances are you are going to fly 80 hours a month and get biz class positioning.

AJX is a great contract if your coming as a Captain and don't mind flying fatigued all the time and working for a bunch of hypocrites. Skymark is also a great contract if you don't mind working hard and making alot more money. That is my point.

[work to live]

Selling days off

Maybe if the guys at Sky did not sell back their days off and vacation then the basic pay would be raised to more realistic levels to attract the pilots they obviously need......just a thought

[The Dominican]

SKY does offer a good exit strategy out of contract work for guys from the US however, the type on the 73 and time on type while flying abroad will probably give you a slight edge while applying to SWA (which is the only coveted job left in the US really, outside of delivering the world on time) kind to think of it.

The best of luck to the guys headed to SKY, sounds like some of you found what you were looking for.

[Fratemate]

Fratemate, this comment shows how ignorant you are and illustrates how you just pulled this out of your arse. I know for a fact that 2 of the guys going have a couple thousand hours (757 I think) as jet PIC.

Thank you for your considered words. I didn't say the guys weren't experienced, I said they weren't widebody, longhaul experienced like a bunch of the ex-JAL guys are. I know JE has 767 PIC time but we're talking about those that will/may leave, not those that have already left. I also said this not as a slur on any of our pilots (because they're good guys and there is no slur anyway) but to counter your supposition that SM are going to stick foreign, narrowbody pilots on the 330/380, when they've got Japanese, widebody pilots on their staff. This 'suggestion' is borne out by Lindberg, who's been there and has a grip on the reality of SM.

It's a shame you edited your post to remove the statement that you had sufficient experience to join AJX as a captain before they upped the requirements. How come you would have had >1500 PIC and yet you suddenly don't meet the SM requirements and that's why you can't go there? Something doesn't add up and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why; so maybe I'm not quite as ignorant as you say.

[Esprit6969]

Dip****,

the post was deleted by a request from somebody else as they didn't want anybody to know they were leaving ANA. I did it out of respect to him and no other reason. SM doesn't care who flies their A380's. They care about making money. They don't have enough Japanese pilots to entirely take over the Airbus acquisitions. They have already made it public that western pilots will fly these a/c. Nowhere did I say I had 1500 jet PIC. So yes you are as ignorant as I, and everybody else here at ANA, think you are.

[LindbergB767]

If you think Air Japan job is hard just wait Skymark
6 days ON 1 day Off all the time, then if you sell your rotation on top
you will be tired, d ont worries
Yes you will make money BUT you d on have a life anymore
You said it is very difficult to make more than 70 hours at AJ
I prefer to make 65 hrs 12 days OFF 24 days a year of annual leave, a BIz class every month (sure) plus pension and bonus after 5 years, and also a 5 years pay scale
than working 90 hours a month (40 to 55 sectors) no time OFF,no vacation for the same money
In my opinion AJ is a lot better for a Captain
but yes for an FO who is looking for any seat as far he is making more money so probably Skymark is a better place
By the way another Captain fail his RC a couple a day ago
MAKI the super idiot failed another expat

[babisiliop]

Skymark

I have seen a lot of your posts and seems to me that you know a lot of Sky.
I am going to Tokyo in two weeks for an interview as well as a sim evaluation.
Could you share some info regarding the recruitment process or any other
info regarding Sky?

Thanks

[737lpa]

Espirit6969

You will spend your 20K/month in a mental institution if you give up all of your days OFF and fly overtime all the time. The 737 domestic operation is also very fatiguing, more than long haul.

If you see no realistic chances of upgrading on AJX, then by all means go to SKY if they will take you as DEC. But don't count on working overtime constantly and giving up your days OFF every month when you're making your numbers because your body will not take it after a while.

Trust me on this one, man. I'm a burned out 737 driver that used to do 900/year to make the best money I could until my liver fell off. Now I pray at night that I only do 700 max.

In any case, best of luck out there...

[Fratemate]

Nowhere did I say I had 1500 jet PIC. So yes you are as ignorant as I, and everybody else here at ANA, think you are

You're not even in AJX any more, so why are you concerned about my ignorance? I know, how can I say this when you've covered your tracks so well? I mean, after all, you've just said 'here at ANA' and you also proved it by telling us you wish you had the experience to go to SM but, alas, you don't. I know I'm just ignorant but even I understand the meaning of the phrase, 'perhaps my lady does protest too much'

You did say you had the experience to join as a captain but then decided to delete that, as well as the rest of your post naming names. It's fair enough that you wanted to remove reference to names but that wasn't the only reason you scrubbed the message Since you said you could have joined as a DEC before they upped the requirements, you would have at least 1500 jet PIC, because that was what used to be required. Trouble is, that then means you ARE qualified to go to SM as a captain and that doesn't fall in with your cunning plan to create your false trail by saying you're not. At the end of the day, if you're going to pretend to be someone you're not, you could have at least created a more original user name than just adding 6969 to your first one

Doubtless your next post will involve the ingenious use of more derisory terms and more clever turns to throw us off the 'trail' but I have to ask, why are you bothering? You've left and, according to you, everything is going to be great at SM. I wish you the very best of luck and hope it works out for you. Who knows, the grass may be greener but I suspect it'll just be a different shade.

[AJX4Life]

At least you would not have to worry about what kind of shirt you wear in training at SM.

[Esprit6969]

I deleted the post only because I was asked to do so by a present member in the Nov class and one of the 3 heading to class in March. Are you high or something? I don't even understand half the crap that you wrote. The 1500 hour remark was referring to the other guys, not myself. Wrong again. I don't know who you think this is as most of your "facts" or "beliefs" aren't even close to being accurate. I could point out all the other mistakes in your posts but unlike you I have better things to do with my free time.