Air Japan (AJX) B767
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Japan / Thailand
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Some people love it here, and some people can't wait to leave as soon as their work is done for the month. It all depends on your personality, experiences, expectations, level of patience, etc. To each his own.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: WORLD
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Good day,
Regarding with the way to deal with brokers or even the Company...
A friend of mine told me that he recieved the aplication form from Parc Aviation in order to take the exams next July and the broker said to him, and it is written in their papers, "that the return ticket to travel must be reimbursed". My friend lives in U.K So, in our opinion (friend and me) this issue gave us a bad impression. To reimbursed.....
Normaly the Company or the broker pay the ticket, as it must be free for the applicants, you are invited for several interviews process in a different country, you are the guest first of all. Many others companies or brokers pay your ticket or even your hotel with meals such us Emirates.
This friend of mine also told me that he read in a link that the day you have to pass your medical exams you have to go to many differents places around the big city because they donīt have an specific clinic or hospital to develop your medical check.
Itīs incredible that you have to put up with this situation wasting your money taking taxis, busses etc keeping in mind that you have to be calm to pass your medical exam. This is another bad impression
These are some considerations or points of view you should keep in mind.
You are a person who wants a new opportunity, a person who might be unemployed and they try to take advantage of your situation.
Regards.
Regarding with the way to deal with brokers or even the Company...
A friend of mine told me that he recieved the aplication form from Parc Aviation in order to take the exams next July and the broker said to him, and it is written in their papers, "that the return ticket to travel must be reimbursed". My friend lives in U.K So, in our opinion (friend and me) this issue gave us a bad impression. To reimbursed.....
Normaly the Company or the broker pay the ticket, as it must be free for the applicants, you are invited for several interviews process in a different country, you are the guest first of all. Many others companies or brokers pay your ticket or even your hotel with meals such us Emirates.
This friend of mine also told me that he read in a link that the day you have to pass your medical exams you have to go to many differents places around the big city because they donīt have an specific clinic or hospital to develop your medical check.
Itīs incredible that you have to put up with this situation wasting your money taking taxis, busses etc keeping in mind that you have to be calm to pass your medical exam. This is another bad impression
These are some considerations or points of view you should keep in mind.
You are a person who wants a new opportunity, a person who might be unemployed and they try to take advantage of your situation.
Regards.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Japan / Thailand
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This has been discussed at length earlier in the thread. I have never herd of anyone that had any problem getting their ticket reimbursed. With the large number of guys that have interviewed here over the last few years, if there were problems, you would have herd about it.
The transportation is not free for the applicants as you are not usually transported on ANA. The reason they want you to pay for the ticket is because it guarantees that you show up. Its not really fair for them to lose the price of a ticket because you change your mind at the last minute.
Regarding the medical. Mine was done in New York over 2 days. My transportation was all arranged and didn't cost me any money while I was there.
This job has been around for a while now so it's not like this is unexplored territory.
The transportation is not free for the applicants as you are not usually transported on ANA. The reason they want you to pay for the ticket is because it guarantees that you show up. Its not really fair for them to lose the price of a ticket because you change your mind at the last minute.
Regarding the medical. Mine was done in New York over 2 days. My transportation was all arranged and didn't cost me any money while I was there.
This job has been around for a while now so it's not like this is unexplored territory.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tokyo
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I think that the latest information may need to me checked? As I understand it, with the recent cut in pay and conditions, candidates NOW had to pay their way to Japan for the evaluation?
Regards
Regards
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
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NEWYEAR,
According to Parc, from 1 Apr, all selection candidates pay for their accommodation in Japan and their ground transportation. The air fare is reimbursed, as has always been the case and, from what I've heard, nobody has ever had any issues getting the money back from Parc (and you'd certainly have heard about it if that was the case). They are up-front with these matters and abide by them because, at the very least, their reputation is on the line and, with that, their business.
According to Parc, from 1 Apr, all selection candidates pay for their accommodation in Japan and their ground transportation. The air fare is reimbursed, as has always been the case and, from what I've heard, nobody has ever had any issues getting the money back from Parc (and you'd certainly have heard about it if that was the case). They are up-front with these matters and abide by them because, at the very least, their reputation is on the line and, with that, their business.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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I went out to Japan for the interview in April so was one of the first who had to pay for their own accommodation & transport. It's not very much, but in the scheme of things it does seem petty.
My airfare was re-imbursed within a few days both times (I had to return to Japan to re-do a medical test and the accommodation was free this time).
The medical check was all done at one clinic. Apparently it's a new one they've only recently started using.
The reason given for having to pay up-front was that in the past they had a lot of no-shows. Nice little paid city-break, I guess. As usual a small number of people have ruined it for the rest of us.
My airfare was re-imbursed within a few days both times (I had to return to Japan to re-do a medical test and the accommodation was free this time).
The medical check was all done at one clinic. Apparently it's a new one they've only recently started using.
The reason given for having to pay up-front was that in the past they had a lot of no-shows. Nice little paid city-break, I guess. As usual a small number of people have ruined it for the rest of us.
Join Date: May 2001
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Jiraiya,
You do 2 sim checks in your training here. The first one is the Type Rating Check. The second one is called your ATPL Check. You then get issued your Japanese ATPL.
You DO NOT have to do ATPL theory (assuming you already have an ATPL issued by another country that they accept). The only written exams you do are Japanese Air Law, 767 Systems and a radio exam. The radio exam was written back in the 50's by the look of it and it's a complete waste of time but it is a requirement!
You do 2 sim checks in your training here. The first one is the Type Rating Check. The second one is called your ATPL Check. You then get issued your Japanese ATPL.
You DO NOT have to do ATPL theory (assuming you already have an ATPL issued by another country that they accept). The only written exams you do are Japanese Air Law, 767 Systems and a radio exam. The radio exam was written back in the 50's by the look of it and it's a complete waste of time but it is a requirement!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Not sure anymore..
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Well, I'll be the first then to tell a story of being cheated out of the ticket cost.
I had my interview canceled less than 24 hours before I was due to fly to Japan, reason given was failure to follow the rules of booking the ticket. The story is a bit long and complicated, but here it is in a nutshell.
The process they use, where you must find your own ticket then get it approved by ANA, does not work well with online ticket vendors that generally offer the best prices, it takes too long. I found a suitable ticket, had it approved, which took several days, then went to book it after approval only to find it was no longer available. Back and forward with the agency for 5 days discussing other options, including having an ANA ticketing office start looking for flights, all the time I kept checking the online site for my original ticket. It comes back as available, so I book it and notify the agency, they are happy. All sorted then right?? No. Over the next week or so ANA decide I have not followed the rules and booked a non approved ticket, which is not the case, I just booked it 5 days after it was approved. Interview canceled less than 24 hours prior to departure. No discussion on the topic from ANA, even when presented with documentation showing it has been handled as per their rules. End result, I'm left with a useless ticket and out the $$$. Received a 'tough luck' initial response from the agency, with a statement that the airline is very picky about the details and sometimes makes strange decisions. Went further up the ladder and received an apology of sorts from an agency rep, but no $$.
So be careful.
Some factors that made my situation harder were a lack of flights between my departure city and Tokyo that met their requirement to use ANA for part of the trip. This gave me very few options to get there. Frustratingly my current employer flies direct, and I could go in F class for cheap, but had to buy an economy ticket with an inconvenient layover in China to meet their ticket requirements... Lesson learned, my first and last experience with putting up my hard earned money for a job opportunity.
I had my interview canceled less than 24 hours before I was due to fly to Japan, reason given was failure to follow the rules of booking the ticket. The story is a bit long and complicated, but here it is in a nutshell.
The process they use, where you must find your own ticket then get it approved by ANA, does not work well with online ticket vendors that generally offer the best prices, it takes too long. I found a suitable ticket, had it approved, which took several days, then went to book it after approval only to find it was no longer available. Back and forward with the agency for 5 days discussing other options, including having an ANA ticketing office start looking for flights, all the time I kept checking the online site for my original ticket. It comes back as available, so I book it and notify the agency, they are happy. All sorted then right?? No. Over the next week or so ANA decide I have not followed the rules and booked a non approved ticket, which is not the case, I just booked it 5 days after it was approved. Interview canceled less than 24 hours prior to departure. No discussion on the topic from ANA, even when presented with documentation showing it has been handled as per their rules. End result, I'm left with a useless ticket and out the $$$. Received a 'tough luck' initial response from the agency, with a statement that the airline is very picky about the details and sometimes makes strange decisions. Went further up the ladder and received an apology of sorts from an agency rep, but no $$.
So be careful.
Some factors that made my situation harder were a lack of flights between my departure city and Tokyo that met their requirement to use ANA for part of the trip. This gave me very few options to get there. Frustratingly my current employer flies direct, and I could go in F class for cheap, but had to buy an economy ticket with an inconvenient layover in China to meet their ticket requirements... Lesson learned, my first and last experience with putting up my hard earned money for a job opportunity.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
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Mate, that's unfortunate and I sympathise with your loss of $$$ but why on earth did you bother with the on-line 'comparing' agents? Where did the paperwork say you had to get the cheapest ticket from a bucket shop?
When you are asked to get your own ticket you are asked to use ANA if possible. You said you had to make a connection in order to do this, so why didn't you find the return ticket to the ANA-served airport and just book both using the direct websites, instead of flylatebutcheap.com? You'd get the money back and nowhere do they ask you to move heaven and earth to get here, just buy an economy ticket. You may well have been able to use the direct flight offered by your current employer but did you ask? I was allowed to do that, even though ANA had a direct flight too
In summary, they are not asking you to do anything but book your own economy ticket and use ANA is possible. No need for cheapo websites because you're going to get your money back, so it's not your pocket you're dipping into. It is, however, an important lesson to us all how anally retentive the Japanese are when it comes to following the letter, to the letter. Individual thought, common sense and initiative is not allowed in Japan. They are robots and you, too, must be a robot whilst working for them. This = follow what is written and not use your brain to get it cheaper for them/you
.
When you are asked to get your own ticket you are asked to use ANA if possible. You said you had to make a connection in order to do this, so why didn't you find the return ticket to the ANA-served airport and just book both using the direct websites, instead of flylatebutcheap.com? You'd get the money back and nowhere do they ask you to move heaven and earth to get here, just buy an economy ticket. You may well have been able to use the direct flight offered by your current employer but did you ask? I was allowed to do that, even though ANA had a direct flight too
In summary, they are not asking you to do anything but book your own economy ticket and use ANA is possible. No need for cheapo websites because you're going to get your money back, so it's not your pocket you're dipping into. It is, however, an important lesson to us all how anally retentive the Japanese are when it comes to following the letter, to the letter. Individual thought, common sense and initiative is not allowed in Japan. They are robots and you, too, must be a robot whilst working for them. This = follow what is written and not use your brain to get it cheaper for them/you
.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Not sure anymore..
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Just to clarify a few things Fratemate so those following can be aware... I realize there is a long history of guys buying tickets and being refunded no problem, I'm not trying to rubbish the airline but I want to let people know it doesn't always go to plan.
There is more to my story, I don't feel like giving the exact info on a public website but I will try and expand a bit...
I didn't try and use a cheapo compare website. I used a reputable online travel service, one I've used many times before as there are no competent travel agents in my part of the world. They built me an acceptable ticket, with suitable connections which were guaranteed, if I had used the direct websites of two different airlines this would not be possible etc. By saying online agents have better prices I mean this for example, the ticket I paid for was $1200USD, my next option was over $5000 and involved me flying the wrong way 6 hours then getting on ANA for a long haul arriving 8pm the night before my interview. Now I wasn't trying to be cheap or difficult, but I'm not new to aviation either and I've seen people lose $$ before so I wanted to minimize my risk, and I'm glad I did. Yeah sure, its not 'my' money as they are supposed to pay it back, but it definitely came out of my bank account, so that is MY money until I'm refunded.
For me, there was no 'use ANA if possible'. It was stated I HAD to use them for as much of the journey as possible. This created a major hassle to get reasonable connecting flights, but I did.
I offered to make my own way on my current airline, at no cost to ANA. Immediately denied... reason given was they have too many no shows that way, and by spending my $$ to buying a ticket I show commitment. True story!
You are correct Fratemate, that 'all they are asking is you book your own economy ticket', and if I was in OZ or west coast USA it would be a simple affair, but I'm not and the approval process where by you go through the agency then they ask ANA etc etc is slow, and if your given short notice like I was, be aware they will not give you any leeway.
Keep in mind I followed the process, met all the ticketing requirements etc, yeah it was a pain in the behind but I still got it done, just took 5 days, yet apparently that was not acceptable so what can ya do???
There is more to my story, I don't feel like giving the exact info on a public website but I will try and expand a bit...
I didn't try and use a cheapo compare website. I used a reputable online travel service, one I've used many times before as there are no competent travel agents in my part of the world. They built me an acceptable ticket, with suitable connections which were guaranteed, if I had used the direct websites of two different airlines this would not be possible etc. By saying online agents have better prices I mean this for example, the ticket I paid for was $1200USD, my next option was over $5000 and involved me flying the wrong way 6 hours then getting on ANA for a long haul arriving 8pm the night before my interview. Now I wasn't trying to be cheap or difficult, but I'm not new to aviation either and I've seen people lose $$ before so I wanted to minimize my risk, and I'm glad I did. Yeah sure, its not 'my' money as they are supposed to pay it back, but it definitely came out of my bank account, so that is MY money until I'm refunded.
For me, there was no 'use ANA if possible'. It was stated I HAD to use them for as much of the journey as possible. This created a major hassle to get reasonable connecting flights, but I did.
I offered to make my own way on my current airline, at no cost to ANA. Immediately denied... reason given was they have too many no shows that way, and by spending my $$ to buying a ticket I show commitment. True story!
You are correct Fratemate, that 'all they are asking is you book your own economy ticket', and if I was in OZ or west coast USA it would be a simple affair, but I'm not and the approval process where by you go through the agency then they ask ANA etc etc is slow, and if your given short notice like I was, be aware they will not give you any leeway.
Keep in mind I followed the process, met all the ticketing requirements etc, yeah it was a pain in the behind but I still got it done, just took 5 days, yet apparently that was not acceptable so what can ya do???
Last edited by yankiwi; 5th Jul 2010 at 09:42.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Yankiwi,
What happened to you is appalling. And it should stand out as a warning to anyone considering going to an interview. Personally, I found the whole back-and-forth business of getting fares approved before booking them to be awkward, to say the least, and I was always a bit concerned that I might do something slightly wrong during the process. But I never thought that I wouldn't get the money (or even the interview). I have to say though, it does all sound a bit strange using anything other than just the ANA online booking portal - that's all I did, and yes it did involve flying several hours in the wrong direction to get to the closest ANA port, but that's what they wanted.
For anyone considering going to ANA, just to give you an idea of HOW ridiculous the process can get, I was asked to fly all the way back to Japan to re-do a medical check, as there was apparently a problem with my vision. It turned out that my 'problem' was the fact that I had a western nose, which is bigger than the average Japanese (but not unusually big, in fact I don't think my nose is any bigger than anyone else's). My visual field test was a problem as a result as there are two 'dents' in the corner of each field where the nose blocks that part of my vision. Apparently Japanese visual fields are more oval. I couldn't believe I had just gone all that way to find out that this was the 'problem'. And to top it off, the doctor had to REALLY THINK HARD about whether or not it would pass the JCAB medical before deciding that it was OK but 'borderline'.
That was over a month ago. Since then, I have heard nothing. Not. A. Thing. All I can say is that the earlier comment about the lack of common sense in Japan is an understatement to say the least.
What happened to you is appalling. And it should stand out as a warning to anyone considering going to an interview. Personally, I found the whole back-and-forth business of getting fares approved before booking them to be awkward, to say the least, and I was always a bit concerned that I might do something slightly wrong during the process. But I never thought that I wouldn't get the money (or even the interview). I have to say though, it does all sound a bit strange using anything other than just the ANA online booking portal - that's all I did, and yes it did involve flying several hours in the wrong direction to get to the closest ANA port, but that's what they wanted.
For anyone considering going to ANA, just to give you an idea of HOW ridiculous the process can get, I was asked to fly all the way back to Japan to re-do a medical check, as there was apparently a problem with my vision. It turned out that my 'problem' was the fact that I had a western nose, which is bigger than the average Japanese (but not unusually big, in fact I don't think my nose is any bigger than anyone else's). My visual field test was a problem as a result as there are two 'dents' in the corner of each field where the nose blocks that part of my vision. Apparently Japanese visual fields are more oval. I couldn't believe I had just gone all that way to find out that this was the 'problem'. And to top it off, the doctor had to REALLY THINK HARD about whether or not it would pass the JCAB medical before deciding that it was OK but 'borderline'.
That was over a month ago. Since then, I have heard nothing. Not. A. Thing. All I can say is that the earlier comment about the lack of common sense in Japan is an understatement to say the least.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Yankiwi,
The kind of anal-retentive detailing you described is your 5 month ANA training in a nutshell. The kind of
"training" at the hands of ANA is truly beyond belief. Maybe it sounds hollow but perhaps you'll be better off in the long run in a company where sanity and the normal laws of logic apply. Good luck to you.
The kind of anal-retentive detailing you described is your 5 month ANA training in a nutshell. The kind of
"training" at the hands of ANA is truly beyond belief. Maybe it sounds hollow but perhaps you'll be better off in the long run in a company where sanity and the normal laws of logic apply. Good luck to you.