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Air Japan (AJX) B767

Old 18th Oct 2018, 06:39
  #2941 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: South of the North pole
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Well then...

Originally Posted by galdian View Post
Daddy
Would suggest you have a decent look at previous posts as they cover this...and the Japanese mentality does not change.

You are there to serve the company, your family concerns are pleasant but inconsequential.
You are there to complete THEIR requiements, your desires/needs are inconsequential.

Your want/need to confront them about a family issue is the start of the slippery slope of being "unsuitable"...if the slippery slope hasn't already been started for any number of reasons during training to date.

Worked in Japan for another operator but believe the mentality is consistent, happy to be corrected if all of a sudden happy/cuddly/fluffy has become a thing in corporate Japan.

And straight onto the 787? Interesting delusion I would have thought.
Cheers.
Pretty much settles it for me...I wont bother as Im not prepared to put my family second or deal with that punitive culture in an airline. Why Asians dont change this is beyond me, they must be gluttons for punishment I guess!!
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 08:15
  #2942 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Daddy Fantastic View Post
Pretty much settles it for me...I wont bother as Im not prepared to put my family second or deal with that punitive culture in an airline. Why Asians dont change this is beyond me, they must be gluttons for punishment I guess!!
DF,

I understand your family concerns, but looking at your rant on the other threads (777/787 common type), your attitude and personality are completely unsuitable to work for the Japanese. Good luck if you do apply.

FK
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 08:37
  #2943 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Broomstick Flyer,

If you're type rated on the 767 then you will be able to do the shorter course IF they manage to pair you up with another type rated pilot. Basically you don't have to do the 767 groundschool or the systems trainer thing (an FMC trainer etc) and you don't do the type rating exam or sim check ride. You will train for the ATPL check only, although it is all the same stuff. In all you save approximately 3 weeks to 1 month.

DF,

No, you can't go straight to the 787. In fact nobody is going to the 787 at the moment because they've suspended the conversions courses while they try and get their engines sorted out. It doesn't matter to ANA that they will have to type rate you on the 767 and then the 787 later. There are plenty of people ahead of you to convert and they will do that according to the date of joining. At the moment you can't even bid to convert for the first year.

As far as bringing your family is concerned, nothing has changed form the previous advice I gave you. You could have them in the apartment during the initial training and then in the hotel during your OJT. Only you will know if that arrangement will work but if you expect them to pay for an extra room in the hotel or give you any preferential treatment because you have a baby in Japan then forget it. As far as they are concerned they are providing you with accommodation during training....which is not an unreasonable approach to take. As for their attitude towards family; well, they're certainly a bit different but if you want to work in their country then you put up with the way they do things. Japanese men live to work and many of them think we are the same. Most of the Japanese pilots assigned to AJX understand the difference but the general Japanese populace wouldn't have a clue that their thinking is not the same as everywhere else. If I had a one year-old with me then I wouldn't even mention it to them. Just get on with the training and no-one will be any the wiser. Of course, if those living arrangements do affect your performance then they will not make any allowance for the fact that you chose to have your family there and nor should they.
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 09:27
  #2944 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
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Originally Posted by Fratemate View Post
Broomstick Flyer,

If you're type rated on the 767 then you will be able to do the shorter course IF they manage to pair you up with another type rated pilot. Basically you don't have to do the 767 groundschool or the systems trainer thing (an FMC trainer etc) and you don't do the type rating exam or sim check ride. You will train for the ATPL check only, although it is all the same stuff. In all you save approximately 3 weeks to 1 month.

DF,

No, you can't go straight to the 787. In fact nobody is going to the 787 at the moment because they've suspended the conversions courses while they try and get their engines sorted out. It doesn't matter to ANA that they will have to type rate you on the 767 and then the 787 later. There are plenty of people ahead of you to convert and they will do that according to the date of joining. At the moment you can't even bid to convert for the first year.

As far as bringing your family is concerned, nothing has changed form the previous advice I gave you. You could have them in the apartment during the initial training and then in the hotel during your OJT. Only you will know if that arrangement will work but if you expect them to pay for an extra room in the hotel or give you any preferential treatment because you have a baby in Japan then forget it. As far as they are concerned they are providing you with accommodation during training....which is not an unreasonable approach to take. As for their attitude towards family; well, they're certainly a bit different but if you want to work in their country then you put up with the way they do things. Japanese men live to work and many of them think we are the same. Most of the Japanese pilots assigned to AJX understand the difference but the general Japanese populace wouldn't have a clue that their thinking is not the same as everywhere else. If I had a one year-old with me then I wouldn't even mention it to them. Just get on with the training and no-one will be any the wiser. Of course, if those living arrangements do affect your performance then they will not make any allowance for the fact that you chose to have your family there and nor should they.
I completely agree with everything you have said...their train set and all that. However I would not put up with that crap in Asia so would not even bother going...I wount be belittled or talked down to by an employer and will certainly never allow them to make me put my family second to a job.

I would make it clear to them we are doing them the favour by being here not the other way round...so in my case just dont bother going!
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 09:28
  #2945 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fighterkok View Post
DF,

I understand your family concerns, but looking at your rant on the other threads (777/787 common type), your attitude and personality are completely unsuitable to work for the Japanese. Good luck if you do apply.

FK
You are probably right, I wont put up with that nonsense and allow myself to be treated like a second class citizen...life is too short!
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 12:35
  #2946 (permalink)  
 
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What FK said
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 00:10
  #2947 (permalink)  
 
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And that’s certainly your perogative.

If however you want to be an expat pilot you play by the rules of the train operator or don’t play at all.

Grass isn’t always greener, but the few I know here certainly enjoy the off time benefits! Sometimes in life one needs to give to get, well if that’s what’s wanted.

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Old 19th Oct 2018, 09:22
  #2948 (permalink)  
 
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I have no problem with any of that but there still needs to be professionalism, a just culture and to treat your employees like human beings...

Not we gave you a job so be subservient and grateful for life because now we own you mentality...who in their right mind wants to put up with that crap!!
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 10:08
  #2949 (permalink)  
 
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It seems to me you are talking about things/people you don’t know anything about
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 13:08
  #2950 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by heavydane View Post
We seem to be going in circles on this thread.
There is a lot of good information on T&C, quality of life etc. in this thread.
How ever the issue of training and specifically the length of training keeps popping up in various questions and theories about possible workarounds.
Forget it people, there is no way around it. This is a very good gig and the price af admission is 6-8 month in Tokyo/Narita getting used to the lokal way of doing things, typed and checked to line.
I realize this can be difficult to grasp if one works someplace where a type rating can be done in 2 weeks, but thats not the case here.
My advise for anyone interested in this job is to sit down with Your loved ones and find out if You have the support to do this.

Sincerely
HD
Well Said. I've been following this thread for a few years and it hasn't changed . I've been in and out of flying,now back in again. Wish I had the jet experience to apply, I would certainly give it a shot.
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 17:33
  #2951 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Angel

Great information folks... Questions: & I’m sorry if they were posted before.

1. Does anyone have any recent info for the interview, atp 25 question test (what chapters to study in ATP), and sim evaluation. I’m currently waiting to hear back about an interview show date.

2. Also, will the JCAB B767 rating be recognized by the FAA?

Last edited by Kyapitan; 21st Oct 2018 at 13:33.
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 02:25
  #2952 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fratemate View Post
Broomstick Flyer,
If you're type rated on the 767 then you will be able to do the shorter course IF they manage to pair you up with another type rated pilot. Basically you don't have to do the 767 groundschool or the systems trainer thing (an FMC trainer etc) and you don't do the type rating exam or sim check ride. You will train for the ATPL check only, although it is all the same stuff. In all you save approximately 3 weeks to 1 month.
Thanks for the clarification Fratemate, it makes sense to reduce a bit the course length.

Now a more operational question, on my current outfit we are allowed to do a lot of hand flying, sometimes visual approaches, provided we comply with the stabilisation gates. Is this the case with AJX? I really enjoy flying the plane and "aviate" (not only push buttons). How is this seen within the company?

Thanks for your contributions over the years,

BF
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 04:17
  #2953 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
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In theory yes, sice that’s that a very big item in the copilots sim checks, VMC circuit. In practice, they will have a shitbrick if you click everything off and go “raw data”. “Maybe not ok” is a very typical response here to almost all the expats. Not a bad gig, many good people here, time off is great, confirmed seat home is gold, but it all
comes at a price. Do your homework and come in open minded. Japan is a wonderful country, but not an easy one.

Last edited by atlanticjet; 20th Oct 2018 at 04:37.
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 09:01
  #2954 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah, as Atlanticjet says you need to choose your audience. As far as most of the Japanese are concerned first officers are unable to fly because they are not captains and only captains really have all the skills, experience and know-how to fly an aircraft. We know that is complete tosh but I think this is bred into them through dealing with their cadet training system that really doesn't train pilots but radio operators. All that piloty stuff is learnt on the line and, since they're learning, all FOs must be treated as students and can't be trusted

The important thing is you won't be flying with that many Japanese pilots (eventually) and the bloke in the other seat is likely to be much more 'normal' in the ways that you're used to. As far as I'm concerned if the weather is appropriate and by you hand flying you're not going to totally overwork me i.e. enough to reduce my already lacklustre abilities, then fill your boots. Turn everything off (but keep the engines going please) and have fun hand flying. If we can squeeze a visual circuit out of someone then go ahead and enjoy flying your big Cessna. There may be one or two 'Westerners' who don't share my thoughts on the matter but, for the most part, when you're not flying with a Japanese pilot then you can click it out and have fun. But see the first sentence again :-)
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 12:38
  #2955 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Just don’t bloody drink anything and try to hop into the wrong flatbed/seat!
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 20:35
  #2956 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Fratemate and Atlanticjet,

Many thanks for the answers. Very clarifying. Choosing the audience is something I already do on my gig, but low levels (or none) of automation are not frowned upon.

Is age vs. experience an issue? I started to fly later on my career (have been doing flight operations jobs since the mid-90s, though), but have been flying commercially since 2011, and I am a bit shy of 5K hours, with 44 years.

Cheers
BF
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 11:58
  #2957 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Good Day Pilots,

At AJX while flying cargo. Is it an well oiled machine like UPS & FedEx thus, having cargo masters & weight & balance computations completed. Or does the pilot crew, have to get their uniforms dirty (load cargo) and perform weight & balance computations...
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 22:49
  #2958 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Kyapitan View Post
Good Day Pilots,

At AJX while flying cargo. Is it an well oiled machine like UPS & FedEx thus, having cargo masters & weight & balance computations completed. Or does the pilot crew, have to get their uniforms dirty (load cargo) and perform weight & balance computations...
You do not have to go in the back ever when doing cargo. It is normal to show up to the aircraft with cargo doors closed ready to go. On turns you can sit in your seat and take a nap if you please.
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Old 30th Oct 2018, 12:47
  #2959 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by jrmyl View Post
You do not have to go in the back ever when doing cargo. It is normal to show up to the aircraft with cargo doors closed ready to go. On turns you can sit in your seat and take a nap if you please.
jrmyl: Thank you for the info, truly appreciated.
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 11:11
  #2960 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by Kyapitan View Post
Good Day Pilots,

At AJX while flying cargo. Is it an well oiled machine like UPS & FedEx thus, having cargo masters & weight & balance computations completed. Or does the pilot crew, have to get their uniforms dirty (load cargo) and perform weight & balance computations...
Ah! The good'ol bear paws and cookie sheets, pilots shaking the nets to make sure the freight won't shift..., I'm glad to say that we just don't know what the hell you freightdogs are talking about!
There are a few things here that will make you shake your head, but outside of your walkaround, there is an army of people wearing white helmets and gloves that deal with that nonsense!
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