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Air Asia's end is near?

Old 18th Jul 2006, 11:45
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: asia
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"AK is doing well but the creeping in of ex-MAS work culture is spoiling the airline"

how about Air Force style ? Ah, the word culture, AA Culture ? Cut Cost ? Delays ? Work to the max ? Bend the rules ? Well, this is what I have just heard from my friend who works there. Can anybody confirm this ?
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Old 18th Jul 2006, 16:51
  #22 (permalink)  
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working to the max is good for low-houred pilots imho...just build up ur hours pass the 1500 hours threshold then off u go to greener pastures!!
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Old 19th Jul 2006, 11:22
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
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"Don't hit onMAS.." so typically like the mad doctor. only his opinion one else's. he would not listen to anyone , his advisers,his ministers even his god.and what we got were half past six decisions. now even the mad doctor had to turn to the alternative media to get his views across lately. his pride and arrogance has shackled MAS and many more companies and institutions. and the management protected from competition has grown complacent always sure that the government will bail them out when they fail. and fail they did, regularly.

and the politically appointed management has also learned to be arrogant and proud. not willing to listen to criticism whether constructive or not or suggestions. so can we expect quality decisions.
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Old 19th Jul 2006, 16:30
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
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Okey then....hit on MAS.
I do not deny that it has been run very badly................psst.....and still is. Just wanted to give it a slight handicap lar.
We cant compare apples with oranges.
MAS has always had the extra baggage to carry. Look at todays STAR. Even after MAS is "so called" allowed to chart its own course, the GOV people are making a big fuss about the reduction in China destinations.
We really don't want to get into comparing MAS and AA culture do we. Or ExMAS culture as it is now termed. Then we might just have to go on and compare pilot standards ......then it can get a little embarassing.
Two different companies. Let them run la.
One will always say the other has an unfair advantage.
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Old 19th Jul 2006, 17:38
  #25 (permalink)  
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So everything aside, what exactly IS the effect for low time Malaysian pilots hoping to get a job?

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Old 20th Jul 2006, 02:22
  #26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Brianigham
We really don't want to get into comparing MAS and AA culture do we. Or ExMAS culture as it is now termed. Then we might just have to go on and compare pilot standards ......then it can get a little embarassing.
Different pilot standard? What are you trying to imply? Be more specific...
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Old 20th Jul 2006, 07:14
  #27 (permalink)  
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With the firm orders made in Farnborough, I do not think Air Asia is in a so bad situation....
About low hours pilots, the question is not only to accumulate flight hours but to be trained up to certain standards. You can accumulate 1000 hours of cross country and to be unable to fly instruments as per required accuracy.
Hours is one issue, what you are doing during those training hours is another one and probably, the most important one.
good luck
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Old 20th Jul 2006, 08:26
  #28 (permalink)  
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Asian Frog

Thanks for your reply

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Old 21st Jul 2006, 03:31
  #29 (permalink)  
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I bumped into a former MFA Grad who with AA now at LCCT. Didnt sound too bad too me there except the deal for newbe joins not sponsored.
kwaiyai is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2006, 05:08
  #30 (permalink)  
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We cannot state anything based on only an individual experience.
As you know, training is not an easy chemistry which depends on many parameters: the individual, the syllabus, the instructors. If the Ab initio training is not correctly optimised, the induction in Airlines has to be heavier and the overall cost is increased for the same result at the end. So the chain of training has to be considered from zero to an operational first officer, the consistency and optimisation has to be checked along the whole chain.
Unfortunately defects are often detected very lately through incidents. It is all the experience of Civil Aviation which day after day is used to improve selection and training. In my background, I have participate (As defender) in discipline court in a major european airline. Mostly of time I have to acknowledge that the files of involved individuals were already presenting deficiencies in the very ab initio training, the incident was most often a confirmation.
Then there is the adaptation to new technologies, and particularly with arrival of Glass cockpit Airliners. New philosophy and new issues to face.
A trial is just ending in France on the Saint Odile accident: was the map of the EFIS accurate or shifted by 2 Nautical miles? We cannot rely idiotement on the information given by a computer, from time to time a "bug" is introduced in the calculation chain. Maybe by our mistake, maybe by a faulty DME and a stormy environment as it seems to be the case for the Mont Saint Odile. In any case, a proper knowledge (and practice) of those modern technologies must be acquired. The less expansive is to do it during the Ab Initio training. Modern tools have to be used like FNPT (Flight Navigation and procedure Trainer). Some schools have done the investments, some not yet.... Maybe cadets coming from the last category are still comfortable on a classic airliner, what about the next generation?
In any case, experienced crew on the last generation of aircraft underline that, contrary to what initially the manufacturers were saying, you must have a sound knowledge of your aircraft and its systems if you do not want to be trapped one day. As an example the A 320 type Rating excessively minimised 10 years ago has inflated slowly ...
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Old 21st Jul 2006, 07:05
  #31 (permalink)  
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Do you think AA will be recruiting slowly for pilots over the next 5 years or as someone said to me just up until 2008?

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Old 21st Jul 2006, 11:03
  #32 (permalink)  
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I think they have to be recruiting because many are leaving mainly due to lifestlye, pay, management, etc ...
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Old 22nd Jul 2006, 15:54
  #33 (permalink)  
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Is it possible that "the end is near" now that AK has firmed up its option of 40 320s and taken a further option on another 30 aircraft?
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Old 23rd Jul 2006, 07:38
  #34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ExMAS
Is it possible that "the end is near" now that AK has firmed up its option of 40 320s and taken a further option on another 30 aircraft?
Well, if you need some money liquidity urgently, you just order nice new aircraft, sell them, lease them back and you got your dollars!

btw that's how some European LCC survive these days...

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Old 23rd Jul 2006, 10:39
  #35 (permalink)  
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Air Asia does not depend only on Malaysia. So the impact of what happens in Malaysia has to be relativised.
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Old 23rd Jul 2006, 11:09
  #36 (permalink)  
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I guess Tony isn't that smart after all. If he had the kind of business acumen espoused by dani he would have ordered 100 380s, sold them, leased them back and survive like "some European Lccs."

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Old 24th Jul 2006, 08:51
  #37 (permalink)  
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One thing Ive realised is Tony Fernandes is damn smart when it comes to "apparant" crises. Who remembers his last when the Big Boys sought to undermine his Thai venture and boasted he'd be stuffed?
His style follows a golden rule of business - let the competition think your down, let them plan accordingly, then floor them with one sudden swift stroke.
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Old 24th Jul 2006, 14:14
  #38 (permalink)  
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looks like a copycat thing . those are eu lcc's , lcc here is different. aa is copying from all over and tries to apply it here but people here gets different kind of treatment and benefits. ordered another 40 airbuses will be good but good luck to them b'cos there will be no one to fly them and probably later on then will lease the airplanes out or try another con job like f/o program without proper documents, get some employment agency to supply pilots, cadets ??? hmmm, heard those cadets coming out have no idea about flying a jet and was told not to send the cadets to toulouse cos they wont make it, instructors ? not enough.DEC that has no idea will be unofficially trained by the sf/o's instead of instructors. money ain't enough other places are paying alot more, MEL's ? wel alot of the guys are very familiar with it in aa because it's an everyday affair, last minute is common, cutting cost is no:1 instead of safety, grounding of crew and verbal threats are common, everything shortcut. with all this going on and without looking at the people and practice more professionalism, aa's end is really really near with many people leaving and wanting to leave. be proud but dont forget your humble pie where you use to take a bite once in a while and try to keep the head from growing too BIG ! well all this info could be riht and could be wrong it's just info, news, rumours heard and gathered from all over ... believe it or not anyways it's just rumour probably .. any1 from the inside mind to share
flyr_flyer is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2006, 14:14
  #39 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Malaysia
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Comparing the kite and the red devil

Both are commercial entities. Responsibility is to the shareholders. Delivering the best value to them is the stated aim of any such entity.Now here's the difference which is glaringly in fron of us glaringly in front of us!

There has to be a motivator for the managers of the business to perform the best. There is two.

FIRST- The managers get good performance bonuses if they deliver the profit. Be it cash or share options and of course the sack if the delivery is a failure. The backlash should be severe enough, that he would not be able to find another job on the drivers seat for the rest of his life from any right thinking organization. This should be motiation enough for a manager to perform if not for the love of money, at least the scare of being reduced to an insect.

SECOND - The managers are the owners of the entity. I would have sleeepless nights if I had put my fortune where my mouth is. If the company turns turtle it is my money, my family's life and my life. I could never be a clock watcher, will be first on the scene in crisis, motivate my staff, learn every nuts and bolts of my operation and then I could speak with certainty of the path I am leading my organization.

Then why do organization still fail despite being managed by the largest shareholder. Well, when you are in the the driver's seat because you are the largest shareholder by owning a minority share you earn better by scheming the company's business into companies you fully control. Even though your minority shareholding company losses. you can legally carve off a bigger amount through your fully owned companies. Corporate governance (good luck to you if you invest by believing in it), enforcement, ownership of failure - who cares, I can go on because I am one of the little napoleans, .

Take a pick guys and gals. which kind is yours!
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Old 25th Jul 2006, 20:33
  #40 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: high up
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Well said Imdragon.... I think the "kite" was legally carved out into bits and pieces in the mid-end 90s ...Don't know if they are still being carved out now
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